When we were slicing and dicing my buffalo to cram into the cruiser, I had an idea that this pic might be interesting to those thinking about shot placement on buff. It was interesting to me to get a good real-life view of how much the rib cage on a buff narrows near the front and how much distance there is between the spine and the top of its back. I think this photo really helps put things in perspective. In the pic, my PH is pointing at where he would like to see a shot placed if the buff was fully broadside. I shot it on a frontal shot.

Say that again?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Say that again?

What I am getting it is you don't have a hell of a lot of room for error even though you are shooting a big ugly critter.

Agreed.

PH looks like 'Bull' Bartos and area looks like Luangwa?

quote:

Originally posted by Chez:
What I am getting it is you don't have a hell of a lot of room for error even though you are shooting a big ugly critter.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Agreed.

True! That is why I laugh every time I read or hear the phrase “MINUTE OF BUFFALO good enough” when working up a regulating load for a double rifle or iron sighted big bore bolt rifle!

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quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Chez:
What I am getting it is you don't have a hell of a lot of room for error even though you are shooting a big ugly critter.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Agreed.

True! That is why I laugh every time I read or hear the phrase “MINUTE OF BUFFALO good enough” when working up a regulating load for a double rifle or iron sighted big bore bolt rifle!

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MAC,

As you well know you have to hit them proper.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
MAC,

As you well know you have to hit them proper.

Nobody should know better than you Andrew!

Goode hunting this season!

And look to see how the spine position changes down the length of the Buff. Where it's bisected, the spine is about 10 inches below the backline, but look further up...probably 2 feet below as it connects with the shoulders.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
PH looks like 'Bull' Bartos and area looks like Luangwa?

Yes Mr. Bartosz in the Luangwa. Lots of fun.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
And look to see how the spine position changes down the length of the Buff. Where it's bisected, the spine is about 10 inches below the backline, but look further up...probably 2 feet below as it connects with the shoulders.

Yes that is essentially what I mean by ribcage "narrowing". The spine is very low at the front. Of course the various shot placement diagrams show this pretty well too but I just thought this perspective was interesting.

I wonder if we would have a consensus, if we asked a few other PHs for there idea of the best shot placement. I think I might shoot a couple inches lower.

Has anyone here on AR shot a buffalo front on and hit it through the length (part) of the spine?

The reason I ask is that I have done it with a deer (unintentionally) - using a little Mannlicher Schoeunauer 6.5X54 & the 160 gr RN bullet penetrated about a foot of the spine. The posture of the buffalo shows the head quite a bit lower and one cannot see the throat most times (at least in videos that I have seen).

Just a thought...????

quote:

Originally posted by WORLDHUNTER1:
I wonder if we would have a consensus, if we asked a few other PHs for there idea of the best shot placement. I think I might shoot a couple inches lower.

I tend to shoot them a bit higher. Hitting the aorta most of the time.

I have shot a number of buffalo facing, normally hitting the curve of the neck, and they drop straight down.

On a few occasions I have shot buffalo feeding below us, and hit them between the shoulders in the spine.

Works just as well..

On one occasion we had a bull feeding towards us, probably no more than 10 yards when he got clear of the bush. His head was down, so I put the bullet in his spine between the shoulders.

Saeed, in general, I thank you for facilitating both transparency and communication of several insightful and interesting topics of importance for our hunting community.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
And look to see how the spine position changes down the length of the Buff. Where it's bisected, the spine is about 10 inches below the backline, but look further up...probably 2 feet below as it connects with the shoulders.

Not to nit-pick, but I think you are overstating both measurements. I think something like 6 inches and 14 inches would be correct for the photo posted by Chez. But your ratio is pretty close.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by WORLDHUNTER1:
I wonder if we would have a consensus, if we asked a few other PHs for there idea of the best shot placement. I think I might shoot a couple inches lower.

I tend to shoot them a bit higher. Hitting the aorta most of the time.

I have shot a number of buffalo facing, normally hitting the curve of the neck, and they drop straight down.

On a few occasions I have shot buffalo feeding below us, and hit them between the shoulders in the spine.

Works just as well..

On one occasion we had a bull feeding towards us, probably no more than 10 yards when he got clear of the bush. His head was down, so I put the bullet in his spine between the shoulders.

I totally agree with the above!

When a buff faces you to look you over, to see what you are about to do. In that situation he will hold his head up with his chin slightly raised. The shot here is just under the chin, centered. This shot will hit the dip in the spine. If a little low it will destroy the large blood vessels at the top of the heart, a little lower and it will center punch the heart. If a little high above the chin will pop him in the brain and the top end of the spine. Either way the buffalo is dead and on his belly instantly except for the lower shot punching the heart he will run but not far.

Looking from the side the spine takes a deep dip from the back of the skull, down to where it passes between the shoulders, then back up just behind the shoulders to just under the back. If a frontal shot is presented while standing still just under the chin is the target.
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You know your Mbogo anatomy very well MacD37!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

When a buff faces you to look you over, to see what you are about to do. In that situation he will hold his head up with his chin slightly raised. The shot here is just under the chin, centered. This shot will hit the dip in the spine. If a little low it will destroy the large blood vessels at the top of the heart, a little lower and it will center punch the heart. If a little high above the chin will pop him in the brain and the top end of the spine. Either way the buffalo is dead and on his belly instantly except for the lower shot punching the heart he will run but not far.

Mac you forgot that "a little high above" stands a major obstacle - teeth. Teeth are incredibly hard - jaw bone might be the hardest bone there is - hitting those will most likely cause bullet to rivet and lose either course or penetration...Been there done that:



IMO when taking frontal shots at "down the nose" or "under the chin" there shouldn't be any "if" or "slightly" - it is either spot on or nothing. Too risky to get an angry and potentially dangerous animal condemned to a long suffering and death by starving.

quote:

Originally posted by Hunter54:
Saeed, in general, I thank you for facilitating both transparency and communication of several insightful and interesting topics of importance for our hunting community.

You are very welcome my friend.

Some nice looking rib steaks in that picture!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by WORLDHUNTER1:
I wonder if we would have a consensus, if we asked a few other PHs for there idea of the best shot placement. I think I might shoot a couple inches lower.

I tend to shoot them a bit higher. Hitting the aorta most of the time.

I have shot a number of buffalo facing, normally hitting the curve of the neck, and they drop straight down.

On a few occasions I have shot buffalo feeding below us, and hit them between the shoulders in the spine.

Works just as well..

On one occasion we had a bull feeding towards us, probably no more than 10 yards when he got clear of the bush. His head was down, so I put the bullet in his spine between the shoulders.

Saeed's comment reminds me of a Ben Hogan story. Ben was hitting 1 iron after 1 iron about 230 yards into the wind landing within 10 feet of the hole practicing. Another professional golfer asked how do you do that? He pointed at his club and said I try to hit the center of the ball on the second groove right here ...

WE all have our little peculiarities.

Years ago when I was shooting competitive trap, I used Federal shotgun shells, which have a duck imprinted on the brass case.

I used to align the ducks properly before shooting, and hardly ever missed.

The occasional miss I used to blame on the duck not aligned properly

The funny part was many other shooters started doing this too

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

When a buff faces you to look you over, to see what you are about to do. In that situation he will hold his head up with his chin slightly raised. The shot here is just under the chin, centered. This shot will hit the dip in the spine. If a little low it will destroy the large blood vessels at the top of the heart, a little lower and it will center punch the heart. If a little high above the chin will pop him in the brain and the top end of the spine. Either way the buffalo is dead and on his belly instantly except for the lower shot punching the heart he will run but not far.

Mac you forgot that "a little high above" stands a major obstacle - teeth. Teeth are incredibly hard - jaw bone might be the hardest bone there is - hitting those will most likely cause bullet to rivet and lose either course or penetration...Been there done that:



IMO when taking frontal shots at "down the nose" or "under the chin" there shouldn't be any "if" or "slightly" - it is either spot on or nothing. Too risky to get an angry and potentially dangerous animal condemned to a long suffering and death by starving.

What I meant by a little high was hitting the nose! However with your shot hitting a tiny bit high was not the problem it was that it wasn't centered, if it had been centered it would have only two teeth and the tongue to penetrate before hitting the brain and neck spine.

With that shot shown in your picture you have to be thankful for one thing at least! That buffalo certainly couldn't bite you!

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