I have just ordered a pair of Mbogo's from Russel. Recently I heard a couple of people say they had some problems with Russell boots, specifically with the glued on soles coming off during a hunting trip. I purchased these mainly for use in Africa and wanted to see if anyone has experienced or heard of failures with Russell's in Africa or elsewhere. Thanks.

bulldog,
I ordered a pair of short ph's at DSC, so I hope this isn't true. Then again everyone gets a lemon from time to time. My boet has had a pair of ph's for 5-6 (?) years and while they show a great amount of wear (he is awfully hard on boots) the sole has stayed perfectly attacthed to the boot.I think he told me last May when we went to Zim that those Russell's had been with him on safari to Africa 4-5 times (no problems).

Yeah I hope it isn't true also. I have heard many great reports on Russell but today read in the backpacking forum on the first page of the boots thread that someone had their Russell's fail in Zim and that got me wondering. Earlier in the thread someone said not to use Russell's with glued on soles in the mountains because he had seen a couple pairs have the soles come off during a hunt.

Granted I won't be doing much mountain hunting in them but just wanted to see if anyone had any bad experiences. The failure in Zim is what really caught my attention.

Took Russell's to SA in 2004. Medium Vibram soles. No problem. Softer sole might be better for quietness, but the harder one worked fine too.

When you say medium Vibram which one are you talking about? I ordered mine with the brown Vibram Air Bob. Almost went with the gum sole for its quietness (is that a word) but decided on the longer lasting air bob.

Have worn Russell Sheep Hunters on all 8 of my hunts in Zimbabwe. No problems and very comfortable, but I have the Gro-Cord soles on mine. Treat them with the Pechard Silicone and they are really waterproof. Will probably be the last boot I buy as they look practically new. Mine are really wearing well. They worked particularly well in the rocks the Matetsi seems to be populated with. I like the higher stiffer boot because of these rocks. I got used to wearing Corcoran jump boots in the Army and have not been able to be comfortable in a short boot since. I like the ankle support.

I went to their business and got fitted for a pair of PH II made with my elephant hide.

Good news is they felt very good, at first. After one trip to Namibia I had a problem with glue failure on one of the soles and sent them back. One trip later I was having blister problems with the design of their inner sole (two piece with a joint right in the middle with a raised ridge where they overlap. The glue on the inner soles was giving way, so I sent them in again.

I tried wearing the boots on a couple more trips and the blister problem continued. Sadly they just didn't measure up to my expectations.

This was six years ago so hopefully they've addressed the glue problem and the inner sole jointed ridge problem.

Bulldog,

The sole you oredered is fine, it is noticably quieter than the Courtney boots.

My PH from my Ocy trip loves mine. I hated them and put them up for adoption after acouple of days, not enough arch support for me and they felt hot on my soles in the Oct heat. But he put his Courtneys up for adoption after trying my Russells for a couple of days. One of his trackers got the Courtneys.

JPK

What options did you guys get on your boots? Are there any you wish that you would or would not have gotten? I got the Mbogo's with double vamp and the pull strap on the back. I was also thinking about getting the leather toe cap but I figure with the double vamp it should be pretty well puncture resistant to the African thorns etc. although I guess it couldn't hurt. Anyone have any experience with it?

Also what have you guys found to be the best leather treatment/waterproofer for the Russells under typical African conditions?

If you are used to wearing an insert with your boots, be sure your measurements include the insert. The boots will not fit unless you are standing on the insert when you were measured.

JPK, I am interested in your comment that you know a sole to be noticeably quieter than the Courteney boots. I am interested because I have a pair of Courteney, Selous model, boots and find them extremely quiet. Trying them out as compared to my ECCO Receptors just around my house was the basis for my very unscientific analysis. How did you do your comparison between the two?

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Bulldog,

The sole you oredered is fine, it is noticably quieter than the Courtney boots.

My PH from my Ocy trip loves mine. I hated them and put them up for adoption after acouple of days, not enough arch support for me and they felt hot on my soles in the Oct heat. But he put his Courtneys up for adoption after trying my Russells for a couple of days. One of his trackers got the Courtneys.

JPK

So which boots do you like for Africa?

Has anyone else had a problem with not enough arch support in the Russell's?

I absolutely love mine. From the first time I put them on, they fit like I'd had them for months. I have no complaints whatsoever other than the laces are too short.

Bulldog: I own a pair of Russell PHssince 2001 with the air bob vibram sole and a pair of Courtneys that I had fitted for me while I was in Bulawayo this past June. They are both excellent boots. For all day walking in relatively flat terrain, I prefer my Russells. I have a very high arch and I guess they made them right for me as they are very comfortable. I prefer the Courtneys if I am going to be doing a lot of rock climbing like I did ths past summer over kopjes and some rather steep terrain in the Dande North province of Zimbabwe. The PHs do not have the level of ankle support the Courtneys afford you. As an alternative, might I suggest you take a look at the Russell "Mountain PH" model. A friend of mine just used them in Tanzania and absolutely loved them. jorge

Matt, I had the same problem last fall in Zim (blister), changed to an old pair of Rocky Safari boots (they don't make them any more) and all was fine the blister still hurt but different boots will not solve that problem. Oh yea I wore the same socks with both pair of boots. This is my second pair of boots from Russell and I do believe the last. I haven't had a chance to use them since they were returned to the company for correction but it sounds like they will be the same. Maybe they will be nice show boots you know Sat. to the sporting goods store. When they were returned I saw no difference at the inner sole ridge. Oh by the way I would not have had the second pair had I not won them at our local SCI banquet.

The boots are made to fit your foot, as you already know. I have had my Russell's since 1987. They have been to Africa 5 times, resoled twice and have given me many miles of excellent footwear.

I've worn Russell's for years on all my trips. Never had a problem and will not hesitate to order another pair when the ones I have wear out.

Mac

I had a problem initially with the glued soles. I sent them back and they were fixed. Since then, they have been used on many long days in the field. This summer, they will go to Namibia. I like them a lot, and would not hesitate to get another pair. Mine are the "hiker" model with the orginal "kletter-something" vibram. Wonderful boots.

Brent

On my last trip to the dark continent, the insole glue failed on my Russell PH boots and the leather insole slipped around and wadded up, which did not add to my comfort.

As for arch support, neither Russells nor Courtneys are too good at it. They are more like a reinforced pair of bedroom slippers than like a hiking boot. But if you want to lose big chunks of meat from your feet, there is no better way to do it than to march at a forced pace on ele or buffalo tracks in stiff hiking boots as used for backpacking. Even hiking boots several years old that are well broken in back home will move differently when you increase the pace to that at which native trackers will push you. Consquently I have found the bedroom slipper approach to be preferable. Running shoes fill with sand and other junk too quickly for me. I wore them for half a day and it felt like I was walking on the beach inside of my shoe.

I ordered two pair of Russell's...the short PH and the Joe's PH at the DSC last month. I had a buff hide dyed and tanned from an old kakuli bull I took in Tanzania just for the boots. $500+ later not including tanning costs, I am reconsidering the wisdom of my purchase after reading this thread. Oh well, maybe my experience will be one of the good ones.

I have an old pair of Cabela's Outfitter 7" uninsulated boots that have been over eight times! Those things have worn great and have been resoled once. The insert that comes with the boot is the best I have found,

One trick for keeping blisters at bay is to always wear liner socks under your medium weight hiking socks. Also make sure to never wear cotton socks, always wool or wool/synthetic blend. I know it sounds crazy even in October...but it will save your feet! I never understood the guys who wear no socks...either they are a lot tougher than me or they don't walk far!

I have had good luck with my Russells. I use the PH short and have the plantation crape sole...never had problems with the glue. As for blisters, you need to wear any new boots before going to africa or any other hunting trip and allow your feet to adjust. One trick I have used is to put on the shoes and stand in the bath tub until they are soaked. I then wear them for the rest of the day until they are dry. Leather will streach when it is wet, and when it dries it will shrink back to fit your foot. I think this process helps streach areas of the boot that otherwise would fit too tight and cause blisters.

I noticed that the Russells do not have Gortex. From those that have owned them, how well do they breath?

Better than boots with gortex.

Brent

Bulldog, All,

You can order the Russells with a thorn proof cloth layer under the insole. This did not make any difference in boot stiffness, weight etc from the ones I had with and the ones I had without.

And Rusty is right, if you feel the need for some inserts with arch support or whatever then you need to do the measuring standing on them, they won't fit if you add them later.

I think the arch support issue is a personal fitting issue. Just as my perfect dimensions for a rifle or shotgun work for me, a fellow who is my size in every way may prefer a differnt set up. I found the Courtneys lacking arch support as well.

I have found the Browning 7", uninsulated Kangaroo Featherweights work well for me. They have Goretex, which is too bad, but they were fine in the heat. They have the brown vibram sole as well too and weigh alot less than the Russells. I had a tracker carry a change of socks in his pack and changed them at mid day. Smartwool socks worked very well.

I put many miles on the Russells here at home, wearing smartwool socks, and they seemed fine. A little weak in the arch support but good none the less. I was suprised how much that opinion changed in Africa. And the sensation of heat coming through the soles was the thing that I really didn't like. Here at home the Russels were a toss up compared to the Brownings, in Africa I really prefered the Brownings.

But keep in mind that while I hated the Russells my PH loved them!

Wink,

The brown Vibram soles were alot quieter than the ridged black soles of the PH's Courtneys. I know this from when we were in the thick stuff since he wore his Courtneys for some of the hunt before switching to the Russells I gave him. The difference was substanial.

JPK

There's a movement afoot (bad pun) in the US that all boots be made with GoreTex. Yes, it breathes, but not as much as a breatheable boot without it. It's getting harder and harder to find a good boot without it anymore, and that's a shame, I think. Sweaty feet mean blisters unless accompanied with the afore-mentioned, restrictive, double sock layer.

I called Russells and asked what they'd recommend as a design for a breatheable chukka-style boot with some lateral support. He suggested something specific (Euro elk, IIRC) with a particular tanning process to keep it breatheable, a thin breatheable leather lining to add some stiffness. (These were not items that were listed on their website or in their catalog.)

He also asked if I could spare my orthotic inserts for a couple of days so that they could build in the right amount of space. It all sounded good to me. I plan to try the "new" GI Desert Boot first, though.

Jaywalker

I've got the PHII's, with speed lacers. I'd order another pair, no problem. They did take a couple days to break in, but I've never had a pair of boots that didn't. The Plantation crepe sole is the quietest I have found for hunting and that included all the "special" stalking boot that hunters have brought. I have worn the PHII's through two, three month hunting seasons and they are pretty worn down, they have maybe another half season in them and they have very small (half inch) sections at the toes where the sole is coming off, but at those places there isn't much sole left. I am frequently walking in water and in jagged rocks and with the soft soles I am satisfied with the service from them. I mailed ordered these and Russell called me twice to make sure they came they way I wanted.

A little off topic but for those worried about blisters, an aplication of Gold Bond's medicated powder prior to putting on you socks will work wonders. Especially it seems if your prefered bots have Goretex.

JPK

I've got a pair [they stay in my closet] didn't fit after several measurements, life's just to short to fool with'em...never again..I'm going to RSA and plan to wear my danners...with sock liners and thin wool, never a problem.

loboga,

What is the difference between the speed laces and the standard ones and are you glad you got them?

Bulldog,

I'll answer since I got mine with them. The nato style speed lace studs are just that, studs. No holes to thread for the top two or three and also no sheet metal hooks to bend like some of the speed lacing hooks. I like them. IIRC they are a nominal cost add and I'd go with them. But hey, I'm 44 and my boots get farther away every year!

JPK

Bulldog,

I have a pair of the PH's purchased prior to my 2002 Zimbabwe plains game hunt. The boots fit me perfectly from the day they arrived and felt broken-in almost immediately. Walked quite a bit prior to the trip and have worn the boots extensively in the years since. They are without a doubt the most comfortable footwear I've ever had.

As you can see with this thread the Russell’s are not for everyone and there have been numerous reports of tread sole detachment. I know a guy who purchased two pair for a safari - one for his adult son and one for him - and the soles of his son's boots came unglued in just a few days after arrival in Africa. Some have had problems with the boots fitting properly as well.

I would purchase another pair in a minute!! The speed laces are essentially oversized eyelets which make it easier to tighten the laces. I did not get them and have always wished I had. The uppers on the boots are cut to fit very close (not too snug though) on your leg and I've found it easier to get them on and off only after pulling the laces from the top couple eyelets. It is a bit of a pain to have to feed the lace thru each and every time when putting them on.

Phil

I had my sheep hunters done with military studs which are just that,brass studs. It's only the top 4 ,the rest are regular eyelets. Much quicker to lace in the morning and take off in the evening. A 72 year old fat man needs the help.

You guys cinched it. I will call and add the speed laces. I am going to see if they can add the Thorn proof cloth per JPK.

I will also tell them I have heard of quite a few instances of the sole coming off. Maybe they could stich it on or something. I don't want to get to Africa and have the sole fall off. I will let you guys know what they say.

Those of you who have had the sole come unglued; What sole was it? Does anyone have experience with the toe cap?

I had the sole starting to come loose on my 17 year old PH II'S last year. "Shoo Goo" fixed
it fine and I'll be wearing them again in Ethiopia this April. It's like wearing house shoes.
I had a standard crepe sole with a slight heel intalled when they were made. When in steep places a heel no keeps your feet from slipping off into the infinite. I've used them mostly in sandy soil and there seems to be plenty of wear left in them.
Rich Elliott

As said above the speed laces are metal rings that the laces go through instead of the eyelets. I just pull the laces at the top and they tighten up all the way down. I think they are the only way to go.
I NEVER go on a trip without footware repair glue. I have a stick of some stuff that can be melted with a lighter and it will glue almost anything to anything. I have repaired BIG holes in rubber hip boots by using it with a bit of ripped off cloth as reinforcement. I also take a tube of ShoeGoo on the longer trips, its good for glueing lots of stuff.

I ordered the same boots for myself and my son for our 2002 Zimbabwe buffalo hunt.

We wore them enough to get them broken in but certainly not enough to even come close to wearing them out before our trip.

5 days into a 10 day safari, my son's boots came apart, just as you described--the soles separated. I had super glue and duct tape along for emergencies and tried to repair them, but they kept coming apart, so he finsihed his hunt in tennis shoes.

My boots also separated although not quite as badly--but it was very disturbing, given the circumstances--that was not an inexpensive hunt, and having footwear go to pieces, especially footwear with Russell's reputation, was not good.

When we got back, Russell replaced the gum soles with Vibram and we have had no furhter problems, but they had no explanation why 2 pairs of Mbogo boots would fall apart after very little wear.

The PH thought it might be the sandy soil cutting into the seam but I doubt it. The soles are glued, not sewn, and I think they just came apart.

That was several years ago, so maybe Russell has identified and corrected the problem.