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I'm convinced I have a tendency to shoot high on running game. I'm not sure why. The last example was last year on cape buffalo. Off the sticks I hit him fine behind the shoulder while he was standing facing to the right. He whirled around and started running back left. As he cleared the first opening I aimed again behind the shoulder, and instead spined-him, dropping him instantly. While the result was fine, it still bugs me that I'm hitting two feet higher than planned. I've done the same thing on deer. I don't recall ever hitting low on running shots. What am I doing, just jerking it? | ||
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check your rifle fit? | |||
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Practice, practice and more practice. Generally, people who shoot shotgun well are very good at running game. | |||
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There are a lot of reasons for shooting high. The primary reason that most shooters shoot high is they don't pick a spot on the target and our eyes focus on the most visable part of the target which is the back of the target or animal, especially when the target is moving. Another biggy is when shooting offhand with no rest, with a scope (seems to be a greater problem than with open sites with most shooters) you pull down on the target area and as your pulling the trigger you are prone to pull up on your target thus high shot. Another reason is shooters who have developed a flinch with bigger calibers will always pull up on their target as they are firing. Also what Scott450 said can be a problem, rifle fit. And the list goes on and on. As Saeed said, practice, practice and more practice. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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Saeed's right, it's like any other shooting, you've got to practice. A low-tech way to practice moving shots that I've used for my shooting instruction programs is simply a rolling tire. It works well as the speed varies and it even bobs and weaves a bit. First put a cardboard or plywood center in a tire. Then paste a large Shoot-N-See type target on it. I've found it works best on a medium slope. Use a couple fence posts to hold the tire upright. Then prop it against a balloon to keep it from rolling down the hill until you're ready. Get setup at your shooting distance, shoot the balloon and you've got a challenging "running" target. | |||
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I shoot sporting clays a lot and do quite well at it. I seem to shoot high in Africa on running shots in high grass more than in the open. Don't actually know why but I do. I always pick a point and aim but the shots are invariably high in tall grass.Doesn't seem to matter if a 7x57 or a 375. Result is the same. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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You shoot high at running animals in tall grass because subconsciouly you are trying to be sure that you clear the visual barrier that you percieve between you and the target. The mind automatically compensates for what the eye picks up. | |||
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Yeah, my last PH called it "the shooter's mind." It manifests itself in a couple of ways, and running shots are one of them. Training and practice overcomes the tendency to shoot high on running game. Tough to find a place to practice for the average guy, though, particularly back East. | |||
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I believe that it's a natural tendency to shoot high on running shots - especially at any appreciable range. I have done it too. Not sure why. I know that I have to consciously fight it. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I have never hit anything that I aimed at that was running. Well never is a bit of a stretch, I did hit an axis deer running at full tilt at about 75 yards. The problem was it was in a group of six and there is know way to tell if I hit the one I was aiming at. So I have given up on it Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Kensco, With a sert of rushed shot you may have pushed the shot and sticks forward hence a high hit... Mike | |||
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I think that excitement and the spur of the moment, at times, might have something to do with it, along with our subconscious that tells us to quickly shoot to kill before it gets away. That and you're shooting at a moving target with all kinds of variables involved. | |||
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If the animal is galloping it is bouncing up and down. If you aim at the high part of the gallop the shot will go high because the animal may be at the low part of the bounce when the bullet arives. You must lead for this the same way you lead forward. Others can explain this better than me | |||
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I was offhand for the second shot on the buffalo. I try to consciously hold-down, lean-forward to compensate for my tendency to hit high, but I think that crutch is hurting me. I'm also an excellent shot with a shotgun, so I can't figure it. I must be anticipating the recoil, or something. My concerns about shooting high means that I don't take many running first-shots. I'm conservative on my first shot. If I can't get him to stop, hesitate, or at least slow to a walk, I generally keep my powder dry, and continue the stalk until I can get him to set up. | |||
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Maybe consider the following. (not sure in your case). The shoulder of an animal goes up and down every time that front leg hits the ground. Unless you can anticipate your shot landing when the animals shoulder is at the peak, or bottom, you will have a larger margin of error. Conside the target as a slightly bouncing ball as it rolls away. You pick the average horozontal path path of the target (in this case the shoulder), and shoot. That shoulder rises and falls above and below that plane. It is a crap shoot and anyone who can tell you they can time the animals steps is either the best shot I have ever met or a liar. It is like shooting a guy on a pogo stick. Maybe you define the plane based on when the animals front leg hits the ground? Who knows. (Personally, I think you are just bragging because you can hit running game.)  | |||
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Oops, I just saw Rug's post.
Rug is obviously a brilliant individual because he said what I said. | |||
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On a running shot you have to forget that you have a rifle in your hands and shoot as you shoot a shotgun. Lead the target and followthrough just as you would on a bird. | |||
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I agree with the shotgunners. The more you shoot trap and sporting clays the more you learn about lead. Here in Wisconsin in my area all we do is post and drive and with me being the oldest guy in the group I always post and we never get a shot at anything but a running deer. Last year we got 34 deer for 13 guys none of them were standing only 2 got away with slight wounds. I shot 10 of them myself but they always give me one of the best posts because they know they won't get past like they do on some of the younger guys that don't shoot trap or sporting clays. I'm not bragging because some of them do get by especially if they if they are out more than 150 yds. and by the way we use shotguns here with slugs some of us use rifled barrels and sabots and always do better than those using rifled slugs and smoothbores. | |||
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Dr. Mike - Didn't realize Wisconsin had a ten deer limit?? Wow, you guys must really have a lot of deer up that way? Maybe I'll venture up that way as I have a couple of long lost friends up there? Both eyes open, Trijicon type scope, shooting shotgun style always works for me better than trying to hold a precise point of aim on running game. And I never take a first shot at game that is running, only follow up situations. Larry Sellers SCI Life Member | |||
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interesting, as I haven't had to do that yet. Do a better job of placing the first shot maybe? Rich DRSS | |||
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Kensco Not sure if it has something to do with the bore size, but i find that the flatter shooting, lighter recoiling rifles help with keeping on track, where as with anything that has a bit of kick to it plus the adrenalin gets you shooting higher. I could not agree more with what Saeed said as well as the shotgun shooters, practice, practice and more practice. also stop thinking of shooting the animal just shoot it! Oh below are some photos of a cull that we did two weeks ago, 90% of the shots are at running targets - i used a .243, father in law used his .222, thats him in the photo. If you need practise let me know.... lol   | |||
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I've always thought that when an animal is running, it's natural to subconsciously focus on the most prominent feature of the animal that's at the far edge when you're swinging through - the head. I think doing a lot of wing shooting makes this worse. When I'm shooting birds, I swing through the head and shoot. I'm not aiming or looking at the body. If I'm shooting completely offhand, I can hit running targets much easier than an animal standing perfectly still, but I typically hit them high, either in the neck or high shoulder. Pete | |||
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#1Gun fit #2 picking up your head to see if you hit. #3 If you can't call your shot you are not useing good form even on a running shot. #4 lack of follow through, you should see bullet strike on any thing out past 200 yards or see a flash of the animal on bullet strike up closer. I did with my 375 and 416 in Namibia. JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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I think it's all statistics. Consider this about offhand shooting. 1. If, after several minutes of preparation, using a rigid shooting coat, earmuffs, gloves, aperture sights adjustable for light, colored glasses, and 16 pound rifle for steadiness chambered in a low-recoiling caliber like .223, you can shoot 20 shots into 6" at 200 yards in 20 minutes, you will win the national championship. 2. If you can shoot all 20 into a 12" circle at the same distance, you are one of the best offhand shots in the match. 3. If you are suddenly confronted with a standing animal at 100 yards under hunting conditions, with no special coat, etc., you will not unlikely shoot within 12" of the center at that distance. Or worse. 4. Add the running game factor, lead, brush in the way, more haste, and all that, and it is probably not unusual to miss by two feet or so at 100 yards. With an occasional worse flyer. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
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You know I did the same thing on a zebra running at about 110 yds with a 375 and a running bushbuck at about the same distance with a 30-06: even after reading all the above I still don't know why I shot high and spined 'em. | |||
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I will say this. Early-on in my career shooting in front of running game was my problem. "Lead" was the whole issue. I finally got that straight in my mind when I sat down and worked through how fast the animal could possibly be running, how fast that bullet was flying, what the range had ben, and convincing myself that I was leading way too much. I started thinking more about "follow-through" and less about "lead" after that. | |||
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Larry Wisconsin does not have a ten deer limit but if you hunt with a group, which all post and drive hunts are, anyone in the group can tag the deer. Its really nice having these young hunters around. | |||
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I am surprised this seems to be a universal problem as I don't have it at all. I have of course missed some running shots, but just as many low as high. I grew up shooting coyotes ahead of dogs, so a running whitetail at under 200 yards is not all that unusual a shot for me. It is all about practice on game. I have at killed the last three bucks I shot at on the run, one at 50 last year, one at 35 yards three seasons ago, and one at 250-275 two years ago. I missed the longer one on the first shot from the .257 Wby and killed him with the second. Most are so in tune with shooting from a bench that they can't shoot offhand or kill moving game. A lot of years I would have no chance to shoot a deer if I passed up running bucks, probably more often than not. The only game I shot in Africa that was running was a quartering away hartebeest at 150 yards with a .375. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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