I know this has already been beaten to death but, has anyone got any prices from an outfitter dealing with Tanzania yet. The "new" published trophy fees, concession fees, etc. came out in the SCI email a few days ago. But, has anyone got any firm prices of daily rates for a safari yet? If not, I hope someone will post some info after the Dallas show.

Bull1

The SCI published Tanzanian government fees are accurate, except that they wrongly convert 32 kg to 80 lbs., when it is actually 70.4 lbs.

Individual outfitters may add premiums to any or all of the government fees, however, and one must pay attention to that.

May have missed it, but is there any "agreement" or anything regarding fee increases in the future? Say 2009?

Edited to add;

From the SCI Crosshair Newsletter

Tanzania Fee Increases Released; New Director
The government of Tanzania has released their much-anticipated 2008 concession and trophy fees, which will be slightly less than what SCI heard in earlier reports. Concession fees have increased roughly 50% and trophy fees have increased about 15% on average. For example, lion fees increased almost $5,000 while elephant fees have increased either $7,500, $12,000 or $20,000, depending on the size of the elephant taken. The full list of the new 2008 fees can be found on www.tanzaniahunt.org. SCI also heard that negotiations were still on-going for the 2009 prices. We will keep you posted. SCI has also received a communication from private sources in Tanzania that a new Wildlife Director has been named. Educated in the United States, Mr. Erasmus M. Tarimo has just taken over the Wildlife Department in Dar es Salaam. (Source: Tanzania Hunting Operators Association)

Any Idea how the 2009 fee negotiations are going and when we may know about them?

No such agreement to my knowledge.

Not sure that it matters anyway, since the previous agreement regarding prior notice of fee increases was so thoroughly ignored by the government this time around.

From the African Indaba

Tanzania: New Fees and Changes in the Wildlife Division
Gerhard R Damm

In September 2007 African Indaba published an article “Tanzania: Facts and Rumors - Is there an alternative to Use it AND Lose it?†Finally, towards end November and then again middle of December some information came out of Tanzania in this regard. The appointment of Erasmus Tarimo as new Director of Wildlife and successor to Emmanuel Severre, who had survived already a dismissal in 2006, and who has now been transferred to the Mweka Wildlife College was one part of the news. The other eagerly awaited news was the publication of a compromise solution regarding the 2007/2008 concession and trophy fees. Whether this “compromise†is final remains to be seen.

Hunting associations and hunting media first reported that the stalemate between the Tanzanian professional hunting community and the Government over the 2007 fees was resolved in late November. The agreement on the 2007 fees is said to stipulate an increase of about 50% on concession fees (supposedly over those valid in 2006, i. e. $10,000) and about 15% on trophy fees (also supposedly over those valid in 2006). Beware, however, there is no official confirmation as yet with regards to this overdue regulation on the 2007 fees! In any case, some outfitters may still want to pass any increases on to their customers while others may not.

Just before this issue of African Indaba went to press, we received a copy of a letter which TAHOA sent to members on or about December 20th:

“This is to inform all the members that in recognition of government efforts for Conservation of Wildlife and poverty alleviation, Public & Private Sector partnership, it is recognized that the industry has to contribute significant revenue to the government. After long

consultations between the public sector on one hand represented by the Minister of Natural Resources and Tourism and the Wildlife Division officials on one side and the private sector represented by The Chairman of TAHOA Mr. Gerald Pasanisi, Vice Chairman Mr. Mohsin Abdallah (SHENI), The Secretary General Mr. Mohamed and other Executive Committee members the final 2008 government fees have now been confirmed. TAHOA has been given a go ahead by the Honorable Minister of Natural Resources and Tourism Hon. Professor Jumanne Maghembe to advise its members and other hunting companies to use the attached fees for marketing for the year 2008.â€

The tables in this article give the official 2008 fees as published in the TAHOA letter. As a service to our readers, African Indaba has completed this list with the fees charged in 2006 and those proposed in the Wildlife Division letter dated 11th July 2007 as comparison.

We







We want to repeat that the exact fees applicable for the disputed past 2007 season have not yet been published. We also want to point out that the 2008 fees have not been published as Government Notice yet. African Indaba, therefore, cannot warrant the correctness of these figures, although they have been compiled with great care. We advise prospective hunters to double check with their outfitter, agent or with official Tanzanian agencies.

Despite of the general euphoria that the stalemate has been overcome, I am deeply skeptical. I even dare to suggest that this so-called compromise, apart from not addressing the known core problems of wildlife utilization in Tanzania, massively short-changes visiting international hunters.

The hunting clients have to shoulder the bulk of the increases, not only in trophy fees, but also in the various add-on costs levied by the Tanzanian Government. The financial burden on the shoulders of the hunting clients weighs far heavier than the increased concession fee on a safari operator.

The keen observer will note that most of the government trophy fees for plains game have gone up – and are now even higher than those proposed in July last year (see red figures in the table on the previous page). A few species have remained on the July 2007 level but are still substantially higher than 2006. Only with very few species the trophy fees have been adjusted downward from the July 2007 level – notably leopard, lion, hippo, eland, klipspringer and topi, yet they are still way over the 2006 levels.

The reasoning which influenced the fee jumping in the two large cat species remains in the dark.



Today’s market price for a good trophy lion certainly is well over the published 2008 trophy fee, whereas the 2008 leopard fee is more or less in line with other countries. One should rather have incentivized lion hunting and lion conservation for the State and especially for the rural communities in the Wildlife Management Areas (WMAs) with a substantial trophy fee dedicated to lion conservation. The 2008 price of $4,900 undervalues the lion trophy and benefits only operators who are selling lion safaris.

The visiting hunters also have to shoulder a 50% increase in daily conservation fees (100% for observers on hunting safaris) and pay substantially higher permit and trophy handling fees – none of these increases were contemplated in the order signed by Minister Maghembe in July 2007.

The safari operators will pay more than double for a concession in 2008 ($27,000) as compared to 2006 ($10,000), but considerably less than contemplated the July 2007 directive of $50,000 respectively $40,000. Those companies with the most blocks benefit most!

Irrespective of the amount, the 2008 concession price is still administratively set, does not take into account the hugely divergent natural assets and resources of the different concessions, and most importantly, still excludes any free market procedures. Revenue obtained by the Wildlife Division is still based on a “Pay-as-Used†instead of on a “Right-to-Use†system, with the major revenue streams coming from trophy fees. The “Pay-as-Used†system means that the Government receives their income mainly from the fees paid for animals killed. Consequently the Wildlife Division is interested in a high take off. Many operators misuse this interest to obtain higher and sometimes non-sustainable quotas. This leads to overutilization. On the other side, some leading operators with prime wildlife areas are in a position to market their safaris at the very high end of the price scale. They maximize profitability with fewer yet high priced safaris where trophy fees contribute only marginally to the bottom line. At the same time, this underutilization reduces the potential revenue for the Government. A "Right-to-Hunt" system would sell the hunting rights for a block including a given quota and allow every operator to optimize the respective business structure on a economically and ecologically sustainable basis.

I also dare to say we are still miles away from the objective that well-managed, transparent sport hunting provides very tangible and quantifiable conservation and social benefits, as well as substantial and sustainable economic gain!

The readers will, therefore, forgive me for stating: This new “solution†benefits the safari operators, while hunters and conservation bear the cost!

The new Wildlife Director Erasmus Tarimo has his work cut out for him and it will not be an easy job, because the underlying problems will not go away. All what has been achieved is a temporary reprieve for the safari operators.

Mr. Tarimo, who started his career in the Wildlife Department after studies in Canada and who was chief warden of the Selous Game Reserve from 1985 to 1986 was instrumental in the negotiations and agreements with the Federal German Government which lead to the rehabilitation of the Selous. Since then Tarimo occupied several key functions in the central offices of the WD in Dar es Salaam. The other key functionaries appointed together with Mr. Tarimo are all from within the Wildlife Division. Therefore, Mr. Tarimo and his staff should be well aware of the issues and the potential solutions which were tabled by the Development Partner Group (DPG) and independent consultants.

In July 2007 the Wildlife Division of Tanzania announced an abrupt and drastic increase of the hunting price structure without giving appropriate notice. This unilateral action damaged Tanzania’s reputation as preferred hunting destination and gave rise to speculations and behind-the-scene negotiations. The present “solution†does not help to rebuild trust since it seems to be again the result of biased behind-the-scene negotiations. Real reforms are nowhere in sight, and the original objective – an increase in hunting revenue for the State – has been achieved, if at all, only partially.

I do not want to forget to mention that just like in the hunting sector, where the WMA concept has been largely pushed aside, the Wildlife Conservation (Non-Consumptive Wildlife Utilization) Regulations 2007, which have been promulgated last year, also indicate a step backwards – instead of empowering the communities who live with the wildlife and encouraging them to manage their assets on CBNRM principles, the regulations concentrate management powers and revenue flow in the Wildlife Division.

Nevertheless, we wish Mr. Tarimo luck to tackle the huge task before him!



Seloushunter

Bull,

Our website reflects what we are charging for Tanzania safaris for '08/'09. I'd be glad to send you trophy fees. As in the past we cannot be responsible for unplanned government fee increases.

Mark

If people DON'T take safaris in Tanzania because of these high

fees and write the gov't there to tell them so, the fees will have

to come down, it's that simple.

Jack, I wish you were right. Inflation is relentless, however, and one must keep up or get out.

Notwithstanding the 30% across the board increase I will be facing this year, God help me, I still think it's worth it.

Until next time.

I am letting my hunt in Tanzania go. The outfitter was already too high on trophy fees (IMHO) last year, and this year with the increase in government fees they will be 50% higher. Sometimes you just have to say what the f#$k do they think we are made of___oil or gold??? I had a $35,000.00 credit but I will cost me an additional 60K to have a go at the same stuff. NOT worth it to me. At what point do you give up on the dream??

I just received the 2008 fees from a fellow AR member, PH/Outfitter in Tanzania...he was reasonable and I had a bout "processed" long enough to take the plunge...NOT NOW!!
You know, I agree with Jack, when the US GOVT puts the taxes at ridiculous rates...the big guys run for cover...adn DON"T pay the bill...they use every escape possible, legal or NOT!!
When the Govt sets the taxes at an acceptable level, everyone pays their fair share...and the overall collections SOAR!! Lower the taxes and the total collections SOAR, YES!!
I will bet a dinner at Reno next year that overall, Tanzania Govt collections will be down overall...UNTIL they realize they have hit the wall and people will NATURALLY go other places...and shake their heads in disgust??!!
I think we should start a major writing campaign to the Tanzania Govt...like they have never seen before...
That's the way I see it!!

It's tough to hear about guys like lb404, who had heavily invested in going (for the 1st or 10th time) and then pull out. Larry Shores spent something like 200k in his last 2-3 years in TZ and said, "NO MORE!"

I talked to a TZ PH this weekend who said 2 interesting statements...1) the Zim govt. is just now learning corruption that the TZ govt. has long since forgotten and perfected; 2) TZ is checking to make sure that licenses are not being split (i.e. 2 buff licenses). He said if they find out then concessions may be suspended.

A friend and I were each booked on 21 day 1x1 hunts in Masailand for 2009. I got the 2008 pricing and it was a big increase, but I could have made it work. The thing that got me was the fact that our hunts were not going to happen until 2009, and the fact that the Tanz. government could do the same thing again. The 2008 increase would have added $25k the the cost of my hunt. I had told Wendell Reich that I would probably not cancel if they made the pricing effective for 08-09, but when they didn't we cancelled and re-booked through Wendell for 21 days each in Zambia for 2009.

To summarize, I guess we cancelled more because of the stupid, strong-arm way in which the government went about this fee increase rather than the increase itself.

All in all I'd guestamate the fees dropped from near 500% to about 35% and thats about what they have been doing for years.

Our 2x1 7 day buff hunts went from $11,550 to $13,550 all inclusive except tips and gun fees, when it was all said and done..

We also came up with a package deal on buff and its a 2x1 7 day hunt at $8500. each, plus $2200 for the buffalo, and $500 for dip and pack, $200 for gun permits, everything else is furnished including air charter..One buffalo per hunter plus they can split 5 head of plainsgame for trophy fees. It is a popular concept and we sold a number of these hunts. This should make Tanzania available for those who might otherwise not be able to go..

Leopard and Lion trophy fees dropped from about $12000 plus to $4030. and $5640. respectively.
A 21 day hunt went from $36,990 to $40,990.

I have been booking hunts in Tanzania and all of Africa for many years and this years final increases seem to be in line with past price increases..Elephants may be an exception but they are still in line with some other countries I believe.

I was very concerned for awhile and went to Dallas this year for the first time not being sold out in Tanzania, but the show turned good and things are back on track..folks are booking their hunts in Tanzania..Sure some will not go, but the majority seems to be headed that way this year.

If you have further questions email or call me at the below address and I will try and update you on all the changes and/or what is available.

470EDDY,

Let's get the correct address for the specific

branch of the government in Tanzania from one

of the outfitters here who books hunts in that

country and start a letter writting campaign

detailing that we would have booked in Tanzania

but the fee hikes made the idea a financially im-

possibility. So we'll be going to X (name a coun-
try) instead.

Hello Big 5 JACK...and to Ray Atkinson;
I just returned from SCI...where I found no one advetising a 21 day hunt in Tanzania for less that $65,000!!!...that's a long way from $40K!! I can remember when a rally good hunt could be had for the difference of these two numbers...

Another good AR contributorand Tanzaniz PH has advised me that a writing campaign to the black government might backfire on us and we can't afford that. Maybe they just have to learn from their mistakes...when the revenues go in the tank and they wonder why??...

I spoke with a lot of outfitters and a couple of booking agents at SCI, there is mixed feedback with respect to who is booked and who is going begging...nobody really knew the answer?? It's going to be interesting!!

We need a volunteer to explain elasticity of supply and demand to the Tanz. government. Who's first? Comments about predictability being essential for capital investment would also be helpful.

The Zimbabwe government fees have always been much higher than in Tanzania.

In Zimbabwe, the concession holders hunt their own concessions.

In Tanzania, the government fees are very low.
The concessions are given to those politically connects.

They sub-lease them at a mark up of rediculous ammounts.

That has been going on for years, hence the very high cost of hunting in Tanzania.

No one complained.

Now the government has raised their fees - frankly, I cannot blame them after they have seen the enormous profits being made by sleepr partners.

I just found out that our hunt this yae will probably cost 50% more than our hunt last year.

quote:

I just found out that our hunt this yae will probably cost 50% more than our hunt last year.

Ouch!

But I do agree with you Saeed. We residents in B.C. often complain of the very same thing....Sheep hunts sell for $35,000 USD, and the government (ie. the citizens of the province), get about $500 of it. Its really rediculous when you think of it.

Best regards,
Chris

I am glad you said it Saeed...the PH's and outfitters and agents don't seem to get it...you are bang on!!...that said, lots of us can't or in my case WON'T pay the price...regardless!!

Anyone know a good outfit in Ethiopia that hunts the OMO Valley other than Nassos Roussos... I spoke with them at SCI, they are booked until 2011...this is the place that is now the alternative for the northern speiclaty species...except Tommy.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The Zimbabwe government fees have always been much higher than in Tanzania.

In Zimbabwe, the concession holders hunt their own concessions.

In Tanzania, the government fees are very low.
The concessions are given to those politically connects.

They sub-lease them at a mark up of rediculous ammounts.

That has been going on for years, hence the very high cost of hunting in Tanzania.

No one complained.

Now the government has raised their fees - frankly, I cannot blame them after they have seen the enormous profits being made by sleepr partners.

I just found out that our hunt this yae will probably cost 50% more than our hunt last year.

Saeed is 100% correct, hope you are good too sir.

Well, I finally got some information from the outfitter I hunted with in 2003 and 2005 regarding their new prices. Even though the new prices caused me to gasp for some air, I took a big gulp and tomorrow, I'm sending my deposit for a 10-day buffalo hunt in the Selous for 2009. I'll just have to tighten up my belt a bit and maybe not play as much golf. This will be a 2x1 hunt and the first time in four previous trips in which I'm will have a companion hunter to share the Tanzanian experience with me.

Bull1

Anyone that thinks Tanzania will drop down because someone can't afford it is smoking something other than tobacco!

Tanzania is expensive, it will continue to be expensive, it has been expensive for a long time. A 35 to 50% increase isn't out of the question, I can't afford it and if your reading this maybe 1 in 10 of you can. That doesn't mean they will not get booked up.

The cost of a true wilderness safari will continue to raise, nothing we can do about this. There isn't much wilderness left on this planet (and especially in Africa). In fact I doubt it if you could call the Masai area wilderness but obviously the Selous is.

If you want to go save your money get a second job, tell you kids to pay for their own college, run a brothel on the side, do what you have to do, to go.

If you have the money your probably going to go anyway.

Get over the prices, we are paying $50-60,000 for a full size SUV, $40,000-60,000 for a full size truck, and $250,000 for an average house. Get over the cost and go to Africa if you can afford it and if you can't save your money work hard and go.

Just quit bitching about what it cost.

D99

You're very right. The outfitter I will be hunting with said they have already sold out on elephant and lion hunts through the mid-2010 season.

And as hard as the money is for me to come by, the Selous is worth every penny.

Bull1

I thought it was supposed to feel GOOD when you were getting SCREWED??!!

I will admit there is nothing like a good African Safari...and especially a Big Buffalo kill...

That said, in my book, there is a limit to what you pay for pleasure...and I sell big yachts...but at least after you pull the trigger...you still have something to show for it and sell at a later date...and that feels good too!!

I am going to take my chances and wait and see...if we don't feed the fire, maybe it will come back to reality?? It's all about supply and demand...if supply exceeds demand...the prices come down, I'll take my chances and buy my wife another BIG diamond in the mean time...for points!!... it's looking like Giant Eland and Bongo aren't so overpriced , NNNOOOWWWW??

Let them charge what they want. We can all decide if we want to go. But when they change prices after one has booked, that is a big problem to me.

The government changed prices in 07. They temporarily closed lion hunting in 06. This is a vacation for me. I don't need this kind of BS on my vacation.

Since 9/06, we have taken three 21 day safaris in Tanzania. I haven't seen a shootable lion in those trips.

F'em. I going else where. My best safaris were in other countries anyway.

Larry,

If you didn't get a lion in three 21 days safaris there is something wrong or you are the unluckiest son of a gun that ever hunted Africa. Lion hunting is the hardest work I ever did but 63 days without seeing a shooter is beyond unlucky.

Mark

After 22 days baiting for and working for a lion and no shootable males means no lions in the area. Therefore, no lion hunt should have been booked at all.

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
After 22 days baiting for and working for a lion and no shootable males means no lions in the area. Therefore, no lion hunt should have been booked at all.

With all due respect, you've very much mistaken when you say that. There are many reasons why Lions, shootable or otherwise, in the area might not come to bait.

For example, they might have been breeding, any of the many PG species might have been lambing/calving, so they had plenty of easy food or the Lions just might have been elsewhere in the territory from where the baits were hung etc etc etc. There's a hundred and one reasons they might not be interested in baits.

The only place you'll get a guaranteed cat is in a fenced area etc such as are found in some parts SA. There are no guarantees in any true wilderness area except true wilderness hunting......

On 2 of the trips, there were plenty of lions. The only ones that stayed on the baits were not shooters. The big ones pulled a disapearing act after feeding the first time.

On the single most expensive hunt I have ever been on, I did not see a single male lion. In fact,I only saw 4 tracks in 21 days.

The price, while definitely expensive to me, is not the issue to me. The issue is the uncertaintity. One signs a contract not knowing if what you have agreed to is in fact the final deal in terms of cost and critters you can hunt.

F' those bastards. I'm going to Argentina to shoot ducks, New Zealand for big game and waterfowl and Spain to shoot ibex this year.

If those bastards come up with something to give me a little piece of mind, perhaps I'll go again. I'm not going anywhere that I am not certain of the price AND/OR if I can hunt the animals I contracted to hunt.

I must be fortunate. My 16 day lion, croc, buff and hippo hunt in Tanz is the just slightly higher than the price quoted to me for the same hunt in Zim. I don't consider either excessive and my trophy fees for croc, buff and hippo were lower or the same as Zim. Doesn't mean I won't hunt in Zim in the future, I just took advantage of what I consider to be the better alternative and to hunt with this particular PH. I'm going now to take advantage of lower prices than 2009 and any uncertainty. I'll say the same thing in 2009. I don't begrudge anyone making a profit as long as I know everything up front. If these hunts aren't profitable to the PH then there won't be any hunts. That being said, if theses hunts become "charge what the traffic will bear" then I'll consider hunting on another continent.

Larry:
It sounds as if you were not given all the info up front. I had this talk with my PH. A great hunt is what I have contracted for. I know that uncertainty will be part of this hunt for lion. My Ph has informed me of such. If you were promised a mature male then I believe you were misled and taken advantage of.

I asked my PH how many shootable mature lions in the concession. He stated 5 that he knew of. Of these, two had full black manes. I am happy with that. He also informed me that I would not be allowed to shoot a male less than 6 years old. I am happy with that. That's why I call it hunting. I pay and take my chances. Hopefully, God will smile on me. Oh, wait, he already has. I'm going to Africa.


Dutch

There is no guarantees in hunting that is why you must always use your opportunities.

I believe the first and most expensive was impacted by the drought. The quantity of game in the area was a small fraction of what it had been just the prior year.

In the last 2 ,we saw lots of lions. None were shooters. We had at least 4 males with very long mane hair that hit the baits and took off for parts unknown. I have 8 inch black mane hairs from one of them sitting on my desk at home.

It is called hunting. I can deal with it. No one misled me in my opinion. I would hunt with the Ph's again.

Again, my issue with the TZ government is changing things AFTER you have signed contracts.

Let me pose a hypothetical question. If one were to sign the papers to purchase a car and then AFTER the car was paid for and picked up, the car dealer tried to change the deal. How would you feel? Would you ever buy another car from them again. I wouldn't. That is exactly what the government did in this case.

They have to earn my trust again. I stressed over the 06 lion closure. I stressed badly over the 07 fee issues. I passed on elephants because of the uncertaintity.

They can do what they want. I will do what I want and right now that doesn't include any travels to TZ.

470 Eddy,
Wow! I don't know who you have been talking to but for 2008 and 2009 hunts with Pierre van Tonder are:

21 days, Lion, Leopard and elephant are $43,990 1x1, $40,990 2x1

16 days: $37,990 1x1 and $32,990 2x1

10 day buffalo hunts 1x1 two buffalo are $19,990, 2x1 $15,990

10 day one buff hunts are 1x1 at $9,990

I will be glad to send you or anyone interested a brochure...

This pricing is camparable to safari hunts in other countries that I book for and less than most..Lots of rumor and inuendos floating around on the internet, so fly the

LarryS,
Those folks that booked with us in 2007 hunted on the 2007 price they booked at and we ate the difference..That does not effect our hunters in anyway or any form..We had allready hunted a number of hunters when the s--t hit the fan...

In the long run it will work out for us, and our price increases for 2008 have not risen that much, as you can see from the above post on our pricing, and our Tanzania hunts are certainly competitive with Zim or any other country..

I am sorry you had a bad experience but that is not the case for everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Again, my issue with the TZ government is changing things AFTER you have signed contracts.

Larry, it's a lucky thing you weren't hunting in Tanzania in 1973.

In '73, the government banned hunting altogether while hunters were in the field. Those in the field had no choice but to pack up and leave. Those with hunts booked that year and the next four years after that simply had them canceled outright.

Of course, that didn't stop people from going back to Tanzania in droves after hunting was re-opened there in 1978. That's because it is and has been for some time the best place to hunt in all of Africa.

I don't blame you for being upset at the Tanzanian government, and I am not defending them, but there are no guarantees there or anywhere else in Africa.

I have to agree with Ray that all Tanzania prices are not way out of line.

We can offer:

10 days 1x1 to allow 2 buffalo $14,900

10 days 2x1 to allow 2 buffalo $12,900

Price includes all costs except trophy fees, charter (approx $1,000-$1,200 per person),hotels and gratuities.

1st buff $2200

2nd buff $2500

Add up the figures and then try to get a 10 day 2 buffalo hunt in Zim for the same money in a totally uninhabited wilderness area.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that these prices are bargain basement but neither are they exorbitant considering what is being offered as the total safari expereince.

Mark

I second Mark's and Ray's posts.

I drive a 1999 pick up because I'd rather hunt in the Selous than make payments on something that depreciates.... my memories of Africa don't fade.

Ray-does your hunt price include the concession fees and license fees??

One of the fellows I was quoting is a regular here at AR, I do have his rates sheet, however, I would prefer he posts it, not me...it is $65,000 for 21 days...

Let's see, as an old bean counter from my professional career, I quote a few old adages: "liars figure and figures lie...a REAL GOOD CPA will respond to your question "what is 2+2"???....roll down the shades and say "what do you want it to be"...

Seems to me that I remember well when the tail end buff hunts were advertised by Cabela's and in The Hunting Report just a few years ago at $7995...7 days 1x1 including a buff, charters, etc., and a second buff $800...with the numbers now quoted...seems like you are confirning a 100% increase??

I have to say that if we hunt at the new prices, especially the trophy fees...all we are doing is validating their pricing...the longer we hold off...let economics do the work!!

What's a season or two in the big picture...go hunt somewhere else for twice the bang for the buck!!

I went to the SCI convention and intentionally did NOT visit Tanzania booths, I watched and what I saw was a bunch of bored PH's sitting twiddling their thumbs!! Feedback later says they didn't have many shoppers and didn't book for the most part...

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:

I have to say that if we hunt at the new prices, especially the trophy fees...all we are doing is validating their pricing...the longer we hold off...let economics do the work!!

What's a season or two in the big picture...go hunt somewhere else for twice the bang for the buck!!

...

you are right but there is something you must no forget and that is the GREENIES the moment the goverment do not have a income for 2 years their perception of hunting might change and the greenies might get it. They will have a foot in the door with enough cash that they have taken from idiots to bribe and change minds

unfortunately money talks and bullshit walks

Gentlemen-I have been PM's by the Outfitter who is a regualr on AR and reminded that his quotation of $65K for 21 days was in a VERY HIGH end camp in Masailand where premium East African Specialty species were available...and only because they were not available in reasonable numbers to hunt other areas.

He advises that his "normal" Selous 21-day hunts are priced at the same rates that Ray Atkinson has quoted...so apples to apples.

Never the less, I have still seen other outfitters-plural quoting in the $60's for 21 days...and not the TGT or Robin Hurts...who are much more...

That said, I also blew it by not accepting a 10 day package several years ago when you could buy 21 day license and concession package and hunt only 10 days for the specialty species up north...I didn't because an obstreperous Booking Agent got between me and the outfitter and blew the price right out of the ball park!! Pissed us both off to the point he lost out completely and we didn't do the hunt!!
So, now, that said...I am faced with a price over 100% higher than it could have been.....Sob, Sob...
Well, I am looking at Ethiopia for the northern species...which now looks better relatively!!...and the Tommy and Grants when the Tanzania short Buff rates come back to earth!!....Cheers