quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Personally, is there any hunting behind a fence where the outcome is unknown?

YES! I've hunted buffalo in RSA on fenced properties twice where I was unsuccessful on two different ranches, one roughly 10,000 acres, the other 11,000 acres. The first in 2008, the second in 2009. Although we saw and stalked buff nearly every day (8 days on the first, 7 days on the second), I didn't get a shot either time.

I've also hunted buff on a fenced ranch in 2006. That one was about 8,000 acres. Yes I got my buff on that one, on day 5. We saw them on day 1, had an opportunity but my rifle malfunctioned. Got it fixed then couldn't find the buff at all, not a single sighting on day 2-4.

Was it the same as hunting buff in the wild in Zim? No, it wasn't. Was it sporting? Hell yes it was. Would I do it again, yea, if the price is 1/2 the price of the wild hunt like it was on those last two trips. But that hasn't been the case lately.

quote:

As for SA Lion, if I remember correctly, virtually every lion farm in SA is 1,000ha or less, nowhere near 10,000 hectares.

quote:

Originally posted by Bos en Dal Safari's:

quote:

As for SA Lion, if I remember correctly, virtually every lion farm in SA is 1,000ha or less, nowhere near 10,000 hectares.

By law the minimum required land size is 1000ha, all of my hunts take place on 4000ha property.

Also the release time of the lions prior to the hunt is a minimum of 72 hours. Yes i do believe there is operaters that take chances and conduct the hunt in smaller areas and release the lions way to short a time before the hunt, in my opinion that is also unethical. If everything is done according to the law you will have a fit lion that is able to run when it sees you and will ensure a chalenging and good hunt.

I must confess it is a pitty that SA has no wild lions up for hunting, but that is mainly our human races fold. Occupying all available land and leaving them no where to go!!

But lion hunting in SA and the way it is done i believe is the only way lions will be hunted in the near future, if you look at then number of wild lions available in coutries you are allowed to hunt them.

Best Regards

quote:

What I object to is covering the facts, and reporting that one is actually hunting a wild animal, rather than either a farmed animals,

quote:

Originally posted by SteveGl:
Gerrit, What's the status of the 2-year release requirement?

quote:

Originally posted by SteveGl:
Gerrit, What's the status of the 2-year release requirement?

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

None that I know of.

I've actually done one of the RSA lion hunts. Did it on my first safari before I had learned much about safari and Africa today. Of course, I knew it was a high fenced captive bred lion, but I didn't really know the extent of how much BS is involved. Even knowing it was captive bred, the outfitter attempted to convince me I'd be taking a lion that was much better than the "price I had selected" because it was a problem cat attempting to kill other lions, which would eventually cost him aplenty if successful. Total BS. That property had a claimed 10,000 acres, but we drove around 8,000 acres or so a few times, looking for tracks and eating up much of the day. Then when the PH saw I was getting bored, we drove to a completely different part of the ranch and "Whala!" lion tracks! The cat heard the vehicle, came out onto the road and waked toward the truck. We got off and walked toward him. All the while the PH is giving me a line of how this cat is sizing us up for the kill. At this point, it was getting a bit much and I looked at him like Really ... C'on man, REALLY! He knocked it off at that point. What I didn't realize at the time however is that the reason the cat was walking toward the truck is that he was hungry. Not to kill and eat us, but to have a chicken thrown his way. The whole thing was a farce, over in less than a day, could have been completed in 30 minutes if driven directly to where the cat was let out. The cat didn't appear to be drugged however, and had absolutely NO fear of man. He never attempted to flee but just walked along slowly, every once in awhile, looking at us and growling at bit. Probably wondering why we hadn't broken out the Colonel Sanders just yet!

I've also done a true wild hunt for lion in the Zambezi Valley. I extended my trip from 10 to 14 days, then from 14 to 18 days. We went through 3 tuskless, 3 bufflo, two kudu cows, and a warthog in bait attempting to play the chess game. Putting out bait IS NOT a guarantee of scoring on a wild lion! I took that lion right before dark on day 15! ONE HELL OF A GREAT EXPERIENCE!

Do I have anything against the guys shooting a lion in RSA. Nope. It's your dime. What I do have an issue with is the BS way in which many are marketed. I can't for the life of me, think of two more diametrically opposite hunting experiences than a true wild lion hunt in the wild places as compared to the RSA ranch shooting of lion. One is just about the top of the heap concerning hunting, the other leaves you with a feeling of WTF did I just do?

BTW, I've also darted white rhino in RSA. I put it right up there with RSA lion hunting in terms of excitement and achievement. However, I can't bash it too hard as I realize some of those hunts are more difficult than others, mainly depending on the terrain. Mine was in an open area, again on my first safari, sold as an add on, and thinking at the time it would be my one and only trip to Africa. Took all of about an hour to find the animal and fire the dart. But, and this is a big BUT, I believe the darting and hunting of rhino today, on ranches as in RSA, have led to the successful conservation of these animals. Without that stream of dollars from hunters, there would be no real incentive for the ranchers to preserve them. From that standpoint, I'm all for the way rhino hunts are conducted today, I just have no interest in doing it again personally.

But buffalo is a completely different story on a fenced ranch. Or, at least, it can be. If the ranch is large enough and the buffalo haven't been habitualized to being artificially fed. My experience with buffalo on RSA fenced ranches is that they become exceptionally wild. Where true wild buff in Zim will sometimes look at you trying to figure out what you are and what's going on, the buff I've encountered on the RSA ranches will not. They run first and ask questions later. That's a turn off to some but not me. I like their wariness. They tend to understand that nothing good comes from the sound of that bakie, unlike the reaction RSA lion have whereby the truck means "Chicken Dinner"!

As I stated, I'll hunt buffalo in RSA on a fenced ranch again, given that they are not habitualized, not artificially fed, the price is right, and the ranch is large enough. But I'll never do another RSA lion hunt, regardless of how "sporting" of a chance the cat is given by some of the better outfitters. The rhino hunting is different IMO. It serves to truly conserve and preserve the species and although it isn't much of a hunting experience, it has a very valid mission. I suppose something similar could be said about the RSA lions, but currently, there's just too much BS associated with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
I read these comments about "wild" vs "raised" "free range" vs "enclosed". Most against the raised and enclosed probably never done the raised and enclosed property and never hunted in RSA. My understanding raised lions are more dangerous then wild lions - no fear of humans. A darted (when it could be done) hunt is more difficult hunt than a rifle hunt. Plains game is routinely traded between properties in RSA. JMO

I have never hunted Lion in any form, but this seems the same to me......

Hunting a wild Lion in my understanding, they are usually hunted from blinds over bait and the "captive bred" hunts are usually tracking hunts....

I don't know much about Lion hunting except what I've read here and in books....but it seems to me that the very same types that decry us Texicans for sitting over a feeder waiting for a deer to shoot have no qualms over sitting over a bait waiting for a Lion to come out so they can shoot it.

I would "think" that a hunt for a "captive bred" that didn't have quite the fear of humans, and a tracking hunt to boot "could" get a bit hairier than sitting a blind waiting for old Panthera Leo.......

If the property IS large enough the only gaurantee I see, is that you KNOW a shootable Lion is there........somewhere.......

But what do I know????

JTEX,

Watch from 3:30 to 5:40 and tell me you would feel the same if that was a Whitetail coming to pay you a visit.

During my wild Lion hunt. We sat on bait, we tracked a pair, and we ended shooting one in the open, no where near bait, simply by responding to his call.

I have no problem with RSA Lion hunting. It's legal and it's fine with me.....for someone else.

BTW, don't care if you shoot deer over a feeder either. All tastes the same out of the freezer.