I'm Looking for a used entry level DR in either .470 NE or .500NE. I have come down to either Searcy or Chapuis. Does any one have any insight into this choice.

I talked to ChaMplin and they don't carry Searcy does any one know why.

IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH SEARCY?

Dr B,

Do a search and you will see a recent thread on Searcy v Chapmius. George at Champlin is a HUGE Champius fan. You will find that owners of both brands are very passionate about their guns. I envy both camps!

I know zero about double rifles.

I have met and talked with George at Champlin - found him to be very knowledgable, eccentric, focused on making money, arrogant,and a prick. That being said, he knows the double rifle business and feels that Chapuis is the best (he sells them) and that Searcy, Kreighoff, Merkell and newer Rigby's are trash (he does not sell them nor has a dealer's arrangement). He likes to sell the very expensive rifles (defined as $25,000 and higher). He sold Capstick his last double rifle.

My impression is that you have to take his comments with the view that he is passionate about what he sells and does not respect or like the competition.

Ford or Chevy??? You are going to get lots of answers for both. I think you should find a way to get both in your hands and make your decision based on your own opinions. I have have owned two Searcy Doubles. The one that sits in my safe today is the most prized gun in my collection and I plan to keep it for many years to come. Butch is a class act and I have never heard him talk bad about other makers rifles. His comments to me were simply " If you like my rifles then you will not like the others". His point is that they are very different and some people will prefer one over the other.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I have met and talked with George at Champlin - found him to be very knowledgable, eccentric, focused on making money, arrogant,and a prick. That being said, he knows the double rifle business and feels that Chapuis is the best (he sells them) and that Searcy, Kreighoff, Merkell and newer Rigby's are trash (he does not sell them nor has a dealer's arrangement). He likes to sell the very expensive rifles (defined as $25,000 and higher). He sold Capstick his last double rifle.

My impression is that you have to take his comments with the view that he is passionate about what he sells and does not respect or like the competition.

George, a little eccentric - probably... But an arrogant, prick?

Well Sir, That's just plain rude of you.

quote:

I know zero about double rifles.

And with an attitude like the one you illustrated above, you probably never will.

Best wishes.

Not my attitude, just thought his manner of dealing with me and two other customers was over-bearing and rude. Hence, I took my money and time elsewhere.

Interesting, my experience (albeit limited to 2 phone conversations) was very enjoyable and informative. He spent a long time with me and answered all of my questions (many of which I am sure were very basic). When the time comes (hopefully!), for me to get a double, I will deal with him.

Ask CFA what he thinks about doing business with George:

quote:

he [George] told me when I started looking at his guns that he would stand behind anything he sold. Then when he learned the barrel blew he said that regardless of what the original owner did he would return my money. So you can see why I am so high on George. He and JJ are great people to deal with.

This was no remington 700 either.

You might ask Johan Calitz what he thinks about Searcy as he has had a lot of experiance with Searcy. You might also pull up the Chapuis factory website and you will be very impressed.
Don't buy one from Chaddicks! The most arrogant Gun Dealer in the country. There are also other dealers than Champlin. Shop around, I did and I bought a Chapuis. CHEERS

Gentlemen,
I have two of the finest toys for big boys going at the moment.
These are doubles made by Ken Owens of Moscow TN and they are made from a Harry Andrews (Scotland) design. They are "from scratch" and not shotgun frames.
The calibers are 450 3 1/4" and 500 NE.
Both have drop dead wood, they were engraved by Ray Viramontez & A.B. Bradshaw. They have all the proper features such as Greener cross bolts etc. The bbls. are Douglas Premium and 24 1/2" long with 14 pound weights and 15" lenght of pull.
The 450 has hunted Africa once but the 500 never got to go. Owner has serious health problems and his children (female) have no interest in firearms.
The 450 has a Swarovski 1 1/2 -4 1/2 x 20 atop in QD mount.
The 450 is $12,000 and the 500 is $16,000.
Both are as new guns.
817 267 3700

Dogcat
I have dealt with George Caswell for many years. I have found him to be a good guy. He has strong opinions but don't we all? I think you may have jumped to a wrong conclusion about George. He knows double rifle far better than anyone I've met so far. Give him a chance and listen to what he says not how he says it.

Dear Sirs,

Yes, George knows double rifles as does Ken Owens. I know P.H.'s that use each of these rifles. I agree, it is more or less a Chevy - Ford debate. Both will work for you.

Mr. Dogcat,

I do not have a problem with you 'voting with your wallet', so to speak. I believe everyone should. Personally, I get on with George, but I can also see where some might not. I think it is the same with everyone, some will like you and some won't. However, I do agree that it could have been said in a different manner. However, you voiced your opinion in your own words.

Back to the double question.

Again, this is a personal comment, if you purchase either one of the rifles it should be at a very good price. If you consider 'new', save a bit more and get into a lower priced English gun.

That is what I did. Not saying I have all the answers, but, I thought a lower priced Westley in a less desireable cartridge would do me better in the long run than a 470 or 500 in a lesser name (not meaning lesser quality, as both the rifles you are looking at are well made) gun.

IMO, I will be able to use my rifle and it will be worth more after I am finished 'needing it' than what I paid for it. This is not always possible, as I do understand most hunters considering a double, price is a very large consideration in the decision making process. However, history has shown that the English rifles will appreciate at a faster rate than the ones you are considering.

I had considerable help in getting mine. I had a lesser name 470 that was stolen and got my Westley with the insurance money and a bit of cash. When I first bought my lesser name one, I couldn't afford the extra cash, but this time could. So I do understand the money issue. But my advice, if you can make the extra stretch, is to buy a "name" gun, as it will be a better investment over time (tell your wife it is an addition to your portfolio).

IMO,

Best,
Phil
www.go-on-safari.com

quote:

Originally posted by MZEE:
There are also other dealers than Champlin. Shop around, I did and I bought a Chapuis. CHEERS

www.heirloomarmes.com

has the best prices, and I've ordered from them.

I have known George Caswell and JJ Perodeau for 8 or 9 years. I bought both of my British Doubles from them. In the early days George spent a great deal of time educating me about British Doubles. JJ's work is second to none.
Over the years I have spent a lot of time around George and JJ, they have become close personal friends, so there is no use in me giving my opinion, as some might consider it biased...
But If I did not consider them Good People they would not be close friends.

While I have shot 3 Chapuis 470,s and one of Searcy's early 470,s built on the Browning shotgun frame [rifle handled and shot good]I hope to shoot a Searcy 470 this weekend at the DRSS Hog hunt. [I bought 2 boxes of Federal 470's just to shoot the various 470's at the hunt.]
I do know this, I have shot my 9,3x74R Chapuis double a couple of thousand times and it is still as tight as the day I bought it.
JJ works on a LOT of double rifles, his opinion has merit.

I have dealt with both Butch and George. I have bought rifles from both. Both are good guys. George tends to be a little outspoken on his opinon of Searcy rifles. Both are good rifles.

It all boils down to what you like. George will treat you right. Butch will treat you right.

As far as the petty brand bickering goes you'll just have to be a bigger man and make up your own mind.

Dr.B,

I have not seen any Searcy's for sale as used...I have seen a few Chapius also for sale..If you are looking for a stopper and crusher the 500 is the way to go...My opinion..If you are looking for a double that fits you correctly get measured and get fitted to the double...

Mike

quote:

I do know this, I have shot my 9,3x74R Chapuis double a couple of thousand times and it is still as tight as the day I bought it.

Reason #527 why a double rifle is better than my ex-wife.
lawndart

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
Dr.B,

I have not seen any Searcy's for sale as used...I have seen a few Chapius also for sale..If you are looking for a stopper and crusher the 500 is the way to go...My opinion..If you are looking for a double that fits you correctly get measured and get fitted to the double...

Mike

Lewis Drake has had a searcy 470 for about 6-months. I think he was asking 8500 for it.