Hi
my knowledge av nosler is that it is loosing 40% of intial weight after impact,but i haven't yet tried swift A fram. is A fram a better bullet for bigger antilopes or should i keep using nosler PT for all the games
regards
Y E S

Yes, the Swift A-frame is a tougher bullet than is the Nosler partition. As to whether or not you should change to shoot the larger antelopes, that is entirely up to you. For me, it would depend upon how fast the bullet leaves the barrel. For the higher velocity magnum calibers, I prefer a tougher bullet. I am not sure you need anything better than a NP in a .30-06, for example.

On my first safari, I used trophy bonded bullets for my antelope species, including eland. Antelope don't get bigger than eland. In May, I used Kodiak bonded core bullets. I was not as impressed with the weight retention with the Kodiak bullets as I was with the trophy bonded bullets. The Kodiak bullets expanded to a greater diameter. All animals shot with both bullets are dead. All but one, one shot kills. In September, I took a black bear and a grizzly with the kodiak bullet. Again, dead animals.

I like the Swift A-frame bullet better than either, but again, for the higher velocity of the .300 Weatherby Magnum. It seems that less well-constructed bullets break up much more quickly at the higher velocities.

Just my two cents, but if you are going to spend a bunch of money going to Africa, don't try to save money buying the cheapest bullets available. Spend the extra and get quality. You might only get to go once.

I prefer Swift A-Frames to the Nosler Partitions. If I am shooting eland, sable, gemsbok, roan, etc., I want all 300 grains of my bullet working for me.

George

I agree with the people favoring the Swift. I shot a bull elk at 25 yards full in the chest with 150 gr. NP and it went through a 2" Oak limb before it hit the elk. The bull ran about 60 yards and expired. When I dug out the bullet from the outer tissue of the paunch and later weighed it was 87 gr. You might say, "At what point of the animal's demise did the bullet fail?" Answer, "It didn't" but, I shot an Impala, like the elk, at 60 yards straight on with a 160 gr. Swift A-Frame and they dug the bullet out of his paunch it weighed 158 gr. Both bullets did the job but, looking at the Swift gave me the "warm fuzzies". By the way, both were shot from a .280 Remington at about 2600 fps.

I guess I'll be the lone dissenting voice. The A-Frame is not my favorite bullet. I find that as it mushrooms it becomes a very smooth lump of exposed lead. Now this may not be much of a big deal but I prefer the bullet to look like a jagged lump of lead with edges and all kinds of odd shapes and corners. I've used the Swifts and never lost a critter so I have little to bitch about. If I'm not using a magnum I like to use the Nosler. For mags I use my own mono metal bullets. They are a lot like the Walter hog and when you get one back it is all jagged and will usually give you a good cut if you're not too careful.

Use what you like we have the best options of bullets to choose from and most will work wonderfully 99.999999% of the time. I'm just really critical.

The swift is a fine bullet as is the Nosler. Use what makes you happy. I'd be more inclined to let your rifle choose. Whichever one is more accurate in the gun you intend to use is the one I would pick.JMO

noslers take on their partition is they want the front portion to blow apart. It's their theory that all the little pieces of bullet and the jagged core will cause more damage than it it holds together. The core gives the penetration and the front does the collateral damage. In practice I've used both and came away satisfied in either case.

Rightly or wrongly, Nosler Partions seem to be the base line all other premium bullets are compared with.

Everybody seems to accept the idea of the design is that it sheds the front half of the bullet while the core goes on to penerate.

However, when on occasion a Barnes X does the same thing, ie shed its petals, it is said to "pencil" through game and is considered a failure...what am I missing here?

Regards,

Pete

YES,
Swift A-Frames are my choice. They have worked perfectly on many trips to Africa. all of my kills have been clean. I am going to try some North Forks as I keep reading good things about them, but I will always use A-Frames because when I called Swift with a question The President himself "Bill Hober" took the call answered my questions and even gave me his home phone number incase I needed to call afterhours if my problem continued. You won't get that kind of service from many companies nowadays. CHEERS

I love the Nosler for all but the toughest plains game (Zebra, Wildbeest, Eland). On light to medium stuff like impala, gazelles, hartebeest the Nosler swats them. I have found A-Frames to be less consistent in terms of accuracy. The Trophy Bonded Bearclaw seems to be the perfect compromise between the toughness of the A-Frame and the accuracy potential of the partition.
Trophy Bondeds consistently maintain 85%+ of their weight even on heavy bone and yet shoot MOA from my hunting rifles. IMO, Partitions are the most accurate controlled expansion bullet, but yes they do break up, especially on heavy bone.

>375 H&H: Noslers for the lighter stuff and Swifts for the heavier stuff.

Masterifleman!

I can't believe your assesment of the comparison of shooting an elk with 150 NP and an impala with a 160 SA. First of all the the NP hits a 2" limb, then takes an elk (3 or 4 times in size of an impala) in the chest and still penetrates to the rumen while the SA only gets to the rumen on a 150 lb animal and you like the looks of the SA better? I'm amazed! Sounds like the NP did more than anyone should expect of it.

Just MHO.

465H&H

My experience with the Swift A-Frames in direct comparison to the Nosler Partition was in a Rem 700 in .350RM with 250-grain bullets at around 2500 fps. I got signs of higher pressure with the same powder charge with the A-Frames than with the Partitions, and the Partitions were much more accurate in that rifle. Given the difference in price and the subsequent consistency of accuracy and good performance on game I've had with the Partitions in various calibers, I've not gone back to try the A-Frames again.

I have used Nosler partitions for so many years I hvae forgotten when I started. I use Woodleighs in my 416Rigby and 470NE and Noslers in EVERYTHING else. Have made 8 trips to Zim and taken many head of plains game up thru Buff and all except 3 animals with Nosler partitions. Used Swift A-frames once in my 30-06, took one Kudu with 1 shot but required multiple shots to bring down Impala. 30 in and 30 out in chest cavity. Could get no expansion on Impala. Have not tried Swifts since. Bushbuck was a head shot and straight down. Almost all my recovered Noslers gave up front core but had entire jacket intact but really jagged. Much damage inflicted and where there was an exit hole it was usually large. As I said I have used Noslers almost exclusivly since I finished Gunsmith school over 50 yrs ago. Why experiment with success.

I like them both and generally will use the one my rifle shoots best. It just happens that on my larger calibers, 416 & 375, I use A Frames, but my "go-to-lill-everything-if-I-have-to rifle is my 300 Weatherby with 180 partitions. jorge

I have never had problems getting A-Frames to shoot well in my guns. Their ductile jacket takes the rifling very well, MOA or better is the norm.

George

If you like to recover bullets, A-Frames are better. Every one I've shot at big game has been recovered looking like they're supposed to with about 100% weight retention. I prefer complete pass throughs with quick kills. I get that with both Partitions or X bullets.

The pass through vs. energy dump argument will probably go on forever. What matters is if the animal you shot dies quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by JD:
If you like to recover bullets, A-Frames are better. Every one I've shot at big game has been recovered looking like they're supposed to with about 100% weight retention. I prefer complete pass throughs with quick kills. I get that with both Partitions or X bullets.

I've never dug an A-Frame out of my Cape buffaloes, they've always passed through.

George

I have shot about 20 head of plainsgame with the Swift A Frame and perhaps 10 head in the states...

I don't like the bullet, it expands to these pretty little mushrooms that are smooth and look like a muzzle loader ball...On more than one ocassion they did not leave a blood trail..and that is why the Sirraco came about, because of this complaint from others...The Swifts do work well enough on Buffalo but again are not my pick...

I much prefer the Nosler and in the large bores they are fantastic, but they can be depended on to expand even on the small stuff...

I pretty much stick with Noslers, Woodleighs and North Forks cup points and Bridger solids for all my hunting these days....

My father has used 180 noslers in 300 weatherby since early 1950's and killed over 50 elk w it. Before that (1948) used 270 w 150 grain nosler. Believe he was one of noslers first customers. So Ive seen alot of elk shot with old and new style bullet. Ive used it on feedlot bison quite a bit.

The curent 180 grain 30 caliber nosler has such a thin jacket ahead of the partition that it either blows off entirely or is left at lower velocites with two propellors. My father in law has shot a number of elk w 30-06 and 180 grain and they all look like this. Last one at 50 yards quartering front made a tiny hole in lung after going through shoulder and had to track forever.

I know a Swift would have done more damage to the lung (and less to the shoulder).

He uses Woodleighs now (more expansion).

The .257 and .338 and 416 keep good frontal area (for a nosler). I think they just have a thicker jacket. I think Nosler had to pump up the accuracy since we all test for accuracy, and somewhere along the line the most widely used bullets became target bullets rather than game bullets. I am guessing they adjusted the CG by thinning up the jacket on this particular bullet???

When using any "hard" bullet, like a Barnes or FS just shoot for as much bone as you can get ahold of.

Not bad advice for a TBBC, NF, or Swift either.

Andy

The A Frame was close to a 100% bullet for us on water buffalo, we often found the perfect mushrooms against the skin on the far side. That was in .375H&H and .416's, but recently we had what I would call major failures in .338WM and .375RUM's. The A Frames penetrated very little and disingrated. Since it is exactly the same 300 grain bullet in the two .375's we figured it must be that bit of extra velocity that is causing the problem. Again this is on big heavy animals, eland and water buffalo. I have no concerns about using them in .375H&H and .416.

I am going to echo Ray here.

I have used both the 300 grain Nosler Partition and the 300 grain Swift A-Frame in Africa. My experience is the Nosler retains weight in the 80%s and the Swift retains in the 90%s. Most of the Noslers exited, while the Swifts were recovered (except on smaller critters).

The Swift does make a smooth ball up front, and the rear core slugs up indicating rapid decelleration I guess. The Nosler is rougher, and in my experience penetrates further than the Swift. I like two holes "To let the wind in and the blood out" as Uncle Elmer used to say.

Both shoot accurately in my rifles, but the Swift has been a bit ahead of the Nosler.

jim

The hunters in my camp that do not bring a rifle and have used my 375HH with the 270 A frame and the 300 Aframe have had 100% perfect and functional performace from these bullets. I rather doubt in the 100 plus(way over 100) animals killed with this rifle and load we saw a single time they did not do exactly what I had hoped they would. The crushing impacts from these bullets with the huge mushrooms are just awsome, far better then the "zip" through so typical with lesser bullets. Hitting a big animal with a bonded core bullet that does not exit will in most cases noticeably stagger them upon impact. Even the buffalo I have shot, and seen others shoot with them have been visually impacted with this bullet. Although the 300 grain bullets do tend to exit much more often then the 270 grain bullets when shot from the 375HH.

Those 270 grain bullets at 2800fps are a hella impressive load. Nearly every time I see a plains species hit with them the instant staggering effect is very impressive.

To say I'm a fan of the Aframe would be putting it mildely. They are my absolute number one choice in the magnum cartridges or for hunting larger big game.

I do prefer the bonded core bullets non-Aframe styles like the interbond and scirracco for lower powered rifles like the 30/06 and 270.
They are much more explosive and will mushroom at lower velocity and at greater distance.

Canuck who posts here and is a moderator used my 375 with this load to cleanly take all his game a few years ago. I don't recall any that fell out of our field of view. I do recall several that fell where they were originally standing and never managed a single step.
Again 100% perfect performance that time and every time since!

I've used A-Frames on about 25 plains game and 5 buffalo. No complaints, don't intend to change.

4 of the .375 H&H on left -- 2 of the .416 Rem Mag on the right.




Regards,

Terry

Yes

I am a Swift A frame fan.
Never disappointed and YES I can prove it.


have a look at my reports /



Kengu is tougher than Bamara

Back from the Central Africa Republic


And in January again, 375HH Swift A frame and Easton ST axis 340 as arrow.

Hi
Thank you all for all the answers i got.
Jean bernard
Votre trofées sonts impresionants . med felicitation. moi aussi je tire a l'arc . mais il est dificil de trouver des easton la ou que j,habit.
salut and
cheers
Y E S