So are cape buffalo so aggressive due to being hunted by lions all the time like a learned behavior opposed to instinct? So in theory would a hand raised or zoo raised cape buffalo never exposed to lions or hunting be fairly docile?

The last bull I shot had two muzzleloader slugs in him. One big elongated slug made out of a car battery core in his rumen and a round ball of about .70 lodged in his nasal cavity. When he saw us he just stood and shook his head. I know why that one had an attitude. I don't know how many generations it would take for your theory to play out.

Good point Lavaca; they have manny obstacles to over come and big horned critters that are the "bull of the woods" have a natural tendency to want to be left alone and will protect their space. How many time have you heard "watch out for the bull" on farms and ranches? Even some dairy cows are not to be trusted.

Some of the meanest most dangerous animals on earth are Dairy breed bulls-----look it up.Domestic cattle kill an average of 20 people a year here in the US--I seriously doubt that Cape buffalo kill that many people in all of Africa annually.

I believe that much.
We raised brahma's from the time I was about 13.
Fence jumping SOB's. OF course we rodeod them too. Some would eat cake out of a bucket Dad was holding. Other's you'd have to carry a club just to walk anywhere in the corral with them.

Mighty educational! Moving them from one pasture to another the old yellow cow refused to drive with the herd. Dad roped her with a brand new 7/16" nylon rope. The cinch was a bit lose so he got off with her just standing glaring back at him and the horse with her at the end of the rope. About the time he got it tightened up here she came right at 'em full speed. At the last 5 feet she turned just enough to barely miss him and the horse. Hit the end of the rope and snapped it like bailing twine. Then the rodeo was on--again.

Another time the red cow couldn't be found in a 2000acre pasture full of gulleys. Finally a week later horse back checking all the gulley's he found her in the bottom of one with a new calf about a week old. IT had sucked and she had slipped down into a deeper hole and was so far gone she could barely stand up. He got down in with her planning on slipping a loop around her head and pulling her out. She started for him, so he stepped aside and she missed, second pass he was ready and pushed on her shoulder and down she went and couldn't get up. He took the calf on the saddle and called some friends for help to get her out of the hole.

He gave me the calf to start my herd with for taking care of getting them both healthy again. One morning a city boy friend and I stopped on the way to school to feed her. The barn was made of 1" green oak boards and had dried and shrunk over the years til there was an inch gap between the boards. When Bill walked by the wall she busted thru the wall shoulder deep and got stuck. Sure made a believer out of him! That was fun getting her unstuck---!

Like I said: "Educational!"

George

In Africa humans have been a predator of buffalo almost as long as lions have, so they have an instinctive fear of humans. It's the usual 'fight or flight' dilemma for an animal, with the wounded, old, lame or poacher-peppered animals choosing to stand and fight because they don't really have much option otherwise.

When humans rocked up on the other continents, the megafauna didn't have the same instinctual fear, and as a result we ate them. All.

quote:

Originally posted by steel:
So are cape buffalo so aggressive due to being hunted by lions all the time like a learned behavior opposed to instinct? So in theory would a hand raised or zoo raised cape buffalo never exposed to lions or hunting be fairly docile?

Steel, there's plenty of 'tame' buffalo in SA, and they remain very dangerous.

Some amazing photos here of an elephant cow sorting out a buffalo... also shows just how small a bush can conceal a buffalo!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...-reserve-attack.html

Hunted buffalo in the Zambezi delta once. They just didn't seem as flighty as the Buff in Lion country but maybe this observation is incorrect ?

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Russell:
Some of the meanest most dangerous animals on earth are Dairy breed bulls-----look it up.Domestic cattle kill an average of 20 people a year here in the US--I seriously doubt that Cape buffalo kill that many people in all of Africa annually.

Yes indeed, my Grandfather had a dairy farm, and his jersey bull was the one animal on the farm I had to be careful around as a kid. They are small, quick and born mean.

Cause I noticed when I went to Yellowstone the animals where very tolerant of people. I was able to get very close to bison and elk without them being skitish. I'm assuming they are very used to people and I have heard bison that are used to being hunted have a healthy fear of humans. With that being said I have heard many people have been hurt and killed by getting to close to the bison in Yellowstone.

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Russell:
Some of the meanest most dangerous animals on earth are Dairy breed bulls-----look it up.Domestic cattle kill an average of 20 people a year here in the US--I seriously doubt that Cape buffalo kill that many people in all of Africa annually.

I would have thought Cape Buffalo kill a lot more than 20 people a year in Africa. Any buff injured, whether by man, a lion or another buffalo gets pretty short-tempered and will take it out on whatever or whomever it can.

The problem with Africa is many deaths by critters never make it into the government statistics. They don't want to scare off eco tourists (Much like shark attacks are under reported in many tropical vacation hotspots.)

BH63

The only animal I have been seriously charged by, and had to shoot my way out of was a Holstein bull.

Dairy Bulls have no fear of people.

Cape buff in my experience will run if they think they can escape, they do not seem to be as territorial, for lack of a better word, as domestic cattle.

Of course if one is injured in some way, then they do tend to be much more aggressive.

I have heard that bison and water buffalo tend to stand their ground more while a cape buffalo will run away.

I know I will get grief for this but what the hell.

I once took Mark Sullivan quail hunting along with Rick Taylor who won the hunt to benefit a wounded PH.

Mark recons that almost all buff will run and not charge. There are very few that will charge. I do not recall the exact percentage he estimated. It was definitely less than 5%. I think he said 2% but I am not 100% certain. it was a very small number.

I have killed a hell of a lot of buff (46). I have had a single minor incident with them.

Water buffalo will indeed stand their ground. Not planning a charge but they have no predators and have been hunted rarely little. Not out of aggression, but out of curiosity. IMHO.

Cape buffalo, on the other hand, have been hunted and poached and preyed upon for countless generations and have more of a fear. Some do charge but most run away. Even Saeed's good friend, Mark Sullivan, will state 95% of wounded buffalo run away. It seems every other hunter comes back from Africa and tells of the buffalo charge. I discount most of them. Sadly, there are a few instances of deaths resulting from buffalo. Here in the states a few die each year from white tail deer. Hunting buffalo is great fun, but they are cattle and the vast majority pose no danger.

Go easy on me fellas. I know most of you have been charged…
Cal

Yeah I watched some of marks videos and it seemed the only animal that charges frequently is the hippo

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Water buffalo will indeed stand their ground. Not planning a charge but they have no predators and have been hunted rarely little. Not out of aggression, but out of curiosity. IMHO.

Cape buffalo, on the other hand, have been hunted and poached and preyed upon for countless generations and have more of a fear. Some do charge but most run away. Even Saeed's good friend, Mark Sullivan, will state 95% of wounded buffalo run away. It seems every other hunter comes back from Africa and tells of the buffalo charge. I discount most of them. Sadly, there are a few instances of deaths resulting from buffalo. Here in the states a few die each year from white tail deer. Hunting buffalo is great fun, but they are cattle and the vast majority pose no danger.

Go easy on me fellas. I know most of you have been charged…
Cal

I suspect cape charges happen ,perhaps a little more often than a cold cat during carrier ops.

Statistically a low probability-,

But when it is you in the situation --

It's 100% from the viewpoint at hand

one of the things you can look at in a dairy bull's evaluation is temperament.

with that being said it means at it is an inheritable trait so in the nature of a cape buffalo where the biggest meanest bull probably gets to breed most of the ladies, I would guess it is safe to assume that genetics does play a factor

I just finished reading Ian Nyschens second book, Footsteps of an Ivory Hunter (which has a much different tone than Months of the Sun). Chapter 22 - Familiarities and Fatalities - contains the following passages:

"Tamed wild animals in man's environment are undoubtedly fascinating, but they are as unpredictable as they are unnatural".

"John Posselt tamed buffaloes, and he raised many as calves. Sometimes he even stall fed them so that they could be easily handled when grown. The experiment seemed to have been successful, but then came the day when one of the buffaloes killed its handler. Perhaps a facial expression, a tone of voice, or a special circumstance can trigger a reaction in a supposedly "tame" wild animal. Perhaps, too, an animal's deeper survival instincts arise as it matures".

DuggaBoye posted the following:

quote:

I suspect cape charges happen ,perhaps a little more often than a cold cat during carrier ops.

Statistically a low probability-,

But when it is you in the situation --

It's 100% from the viewpoint at hand

3 days after turning 15, my son, on his 1st DG safari, was charged by a cape buffalo (Zambezi Valley). After bumping the bull 6 times over a 4 hr period, he decided enough was enough and charged. Somehow the trackers knew he was waiting in some incredibly thick bush and instructed us to go around it. The grunt is unmistakable, and as the shouting and scrambling commenced, our PH (Rich Tabor) stood side-by-side with my son and instructed him. Several shots later the old bull collapsed 12 paces away. Our camera man somehow managed to catch it all. I decided I never need to see another buff charge ....

During that same safari, Buzz and his client called off tracking an ele to go after a buff that had killed two villagers. When they put it down, the blood stains from the victims was still visible on the bull's tips and bosses.

There's a reason they're known as "black death". Perhaps it has to do with being harassed by lions for thousands of years, but it has become so innate that they're predisposed to this temperament.

I've been charged by wild boars but the most dangerous charge was a brumby (wild horse) stallion. He took a couple of shots from a 300 magnum to put down.........which was quite unusual as generally horses are soft and easy to kill.......

JEB:

Which of Ruark's books is that quote from. I've always liked it and while I have everything he ever wrote, I can't seem to find it. The concept of killing an animal because you love it is hard for non-hunters to understand.

Never mind. "Use Enough Gun".

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Never mind. "Use Enough Gun".

In my three trips to Namibia, I've only been charged once by a wild critter, and it scared the crap out of me. In 2012, my wife and I were touring Etosha in a rental car after I had completed an 8 day hunt with Sebra Hunting Safaris. As we were driving along just west of Halali, a large herd of elephants blocked our way. I stopped immediately about 100 yards from them, content to let them meander past us. When most of the herd had crossed, a very aggressive bull charged straight at us. I threw the rental car into reverse, and floored it. Despite going as fast as the car would allow, the bull was gaining on us fast. When the bull got to within about 25 yards, he finally relented and stopped, but still blocked the road. After about 15 minutes, a semi trailer with native workers on board came along, and just honked their horn repeatedly and drove straight at him with their much larger vehicle. He finally gave it up and followed the rest of the herd into the mopane bush. It took about an hour for the adrenalin rush to subside.

You piss off any animal at close quarters and it will be aggressive. Especially if it is carrying a bit of lead.

Many PHs who have been charged/gored by buff will say that the buff is aggressive when wounded.

They are very aggressive when shot, filled with hate and revenge. That is my humble opinion.

You would know better than most Butch.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
JEB:

Which of Ruark's books is that quote from. I've always liked it and while I have everything he ever wrote, I can't seem to find it. The concept of killing an animal because you love it is hard for non-hunters to understand.

Ruark was the master. He could convey so well, with so few words, what many of us have felt, thought or believed but could not find the words to express. This qoute is one of my favorites - hard for many to understand, but expresses what others like myself feel - and I make no apologies for that.

Richard Harland did a pretty good job of expressing that sentiment in "The Hunting Imperative". I'm reading it again for about the 20th time. I share his love for the .458 MS.

It's always best to kill them early, and once, and dead. Anything else, and all bets are off.

Mike:

Ain't that the truth. Take out the top of the heart and the plumbing and they die rather quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
JEB:

Which of Ruark's books is that quote from. I've always liked it and while I have everything he ever wrote, I can't seem to find it. The concept of killing an animal because you love it is hard for non-hunters to understand.

It's from Horn of the Hunter. About halfway through (I think).

I once hand petted a black rhino that was in a pen with her calf at a lion rehabilitation center outside of Bulawayo. Does that mean that black rhinos aren't liable to charge. Of course not.

Based upon all the many books I've read that have been written by authors who have killed literally hundreds, if not, thousands of buffalo, old buffalo bulls do become territorial, and all buffalo bulls have a tendency to want to stand their ground after being pushed a time or two.

I've only shot two buffalo, but have been charged once. That is probably a little higher than average, as I understand you might expect to get one charge in every 10 buffalo, based upon statistics.

Like lions and leopards, some buffalo become man-killers, either through injury or just a bad disposition through genetics. Those buffalo will not hesitate to charge and kill any human they encounter. John F. Burger has killed more than a few of these man-killers in his excellent book "Black Death".

But like any animal species, all are subject to "survival of the fittest", and the most aggressive bulls (and their genes) are killed off as the human population spreads.

JMO

BH63

There's a reason one should tip the rodeo clown well -- bovines can often be cantankerous.

Steel,
That is a fair analyses, plus one must consider they are raised on milk! All joking aside you are correct.

Buffalo and cattle of all kinds are more aggressive when under stress..Being a ranch raised cowboy and rancher, and long time hunter of Buffalo and Bison to a lesser extent for that matter, I know this to be a fact with all bovine creatures and probably any animal domestic or wild. I am sure any vet worth his salt will back me up on that.

Lord knows I have stood 3 Cape Buffalo charges with different degress of aggression some more others less, and have had more than a few domestic cows blow snot in my back pocket as I bailed over a coral fence!!

I truly believe the Cape Buffalo is the more aggressive of any bovine animal in that once he determines the enemy he will not change is attack, same as a Lion, he will run past two or three shooters to get the dirty bastard that shot him first!!

Its natures survival of the fittest.

I have to believe that if Cape Buffalo were anywhere near as dangerous as a Holstein bull that there be a hell of a lot more than 20 people killed by them in Africa.

When I was young, almost every dairy farm had one and we damn sure knew where it was when we went over to the neighbors, cut through anyone's pasture or went out in the pasture to get the cows. I'd bet money they killed more than 20 people a year in Minnesota alone. I spent more than a couple of hours treed by those things. ABS THANK YOU!

Gentlemen a cape buffalo never charges anyone without provocation! However the cape buffalo is the one who decides what constitutes PROVACATION!

Once a cape buffalo puts together a determined charge if you do not kill him he will surely try his very best to kill you!

Butch Begnaud is very likely to be of that opinion from personal experience I would think!

It is true that any animal will flee if he has the chance but where buffalo are concerned poke a bullet hole in him and then press him, and it will become very clear that you may have stepped in a pile of crap up to you knees.

...................................................................

quote:

However the cape buffalo is the one who decides what constitutes PROVACATION!

Truer words have never been spoken Mac. We'd all agree that shooting a bull would constitute provocation, but to him, it might be waking him up from his nap.

quote:

Originally posted by nhoro:
I just finished reading Ian Nyschens second book, Footsteps of an Ivory Hunter (which has a much different tone than Months of the Sun). Chapter 22 - Familiarities and Fatalities - contains the following passages:

"Tamed wild animals in man's environment are undoubtedly fascinating, but they are as unpredictable as they are unnatural".

"John Posselt tamed buffaloes, and he raised many as calves. Sometimes he even stall fed them so that they could be easily handled when grown. The experiment seemed to have been successful, but then came the day when one of the buffaloes killed its handler. Perhaps a facial expression, a tone of voice, or a special circumstance can trigger a reaction in a supposedly "tame" wild animal. Perhaps, too, an animal's deeper survival instincts arise as it matures".

DuggaBoye posted the following:

quote:

I suspect cape charges happen ,perhaps a little more often than a cold cat during carrier ops.

Statistically a low probability-,

But when it is you in the situation --

It's 100% from the viewpoint at hand

3 days after turning 15, my son, on his 1st DG safari, was charged by a cape buffalo (Zambezi Valley). After bumping the bull 6 times over a 4 hr period, he decided enough was enough and charged. Somehow the trackers knew he was waiting in some incredibly thick bush and instructed us to go around it. The grunt is unmistakable, and as the shouting and scrambling commenced, our PH (Rich Tabor) stood side-by-side with my son and instructed him. Several shots later the old bull collapsed 12 paces away. Our camera man somehow managed to catch it all. I decided I never need to see another buff charge ....

During that same safari, Buzz and his client called off tracking an ele to go after a buff that had killed two villagers. When they put it down, the blood stains from the victims was still visible on the bull's tips and bosses.

There's a reason they're known as "black death". Perhaps it has to do with being harassed by lions for thousands of years, but it has become so innate that they're predisposed to this temperament.

The unstated portion of my post:

You must still prepare for the event-
(cold cat or a charge)
each time you engage in the activity