Other than the gunwriters, has anyone used the 416 Ruger in Africa?

This cartridge seems poised to take over the medium-duty dangerous game class except that Ruger has failed to chamber it in an "African style" rifle(woood/blue). I know that there are a few custom rifles so chambered, but these are not going to keep the cartridge alive in the long run.

Question:
Will the 416 Ruger ever become popular in Africa?

Choices:
Yes, it is already well on its way.
Yes, but only if offered in a wood/blue factory rifle.
Yes, the custom rifle market will save it.
No, the Rem and Rigby have the .416 covered
No, with SS/Syn it is D.O.A.

 

I will use mine in Zimbabwe's Lower Zambezi on my Aug.1-14 hunt with Chifuti safaris for buffalo and tuskless elephant. I'm also taking the 450/400 to try on some things. If the reloading dies become available by then, I will load up 350 grain Barnes TSX for hyena, bushbuck, and other plains game. I really enjoy shooting it off sticks with the Hogue stock, and with the 1.75x6X Leupold have had no complaints whatsoever.

It may be a option for US hunters, but given the difficulty of finding ammo and the rules regarding ammo and reloading over there, I doubt it will become popular. If this cartridge and the Ruger rifle float your boat, it certainly will work, but its not better than either the Rigby or the Remington options, so its likely to remain difficult to find there.

In the US, it may find some acceptance-- but who NEEDS a .416 for anything over here?

In the US, it may find some acceptance-- but who NEEDS a .416 for anything over here?

I find my 416 Rigby works just fine for controlling jackrabbits. Prevents charges - those front tusks can do wicked damage to the tires when employed by a wounded & enraged jack.

Africa is a niche market with way less than 1/10th of 1% of domestic hunters even comptemplating such a trip. The current economy has not helped that situation.
The cartridge / rifle combo may find a following in Alaska but again a small niche market.
I believe it was a risk to begin with and with the economy; who knows.
How many times can one reinvent the wheel? Not a bad offering, just ballistically nothing better that what currently exists. You can just buy it cheaper.
I do not suspect anyone that has a dialed in Rigby or Remington will be trading or 404J for that matter.

EZ

I had the pleasure to be filming Steve Hornady on the Ruger .416 first safari in the Zambezi Valley. Lion, buff, hippo, all one shot kills. I have since seen this gun on several safaris and have really been impressed. I have always been a .416 fan, and I think Ruger\ Hornady have a real winner with this caliber.
When they released the .375 I was shocked by how many rifles those guys sold, and are still selling ! I took my brown bear with the .416 and look forward on useing it on moose. Overkill? Maybe, but I still favor it over the .375
I thing the pricing on the Ruger will make it a very popular choice with new buff and elephant hunters coming up in the safari game.

eezridr is right. I am thinking about it just because. No real reason, just because. I do like the idea of getting the performance with a handy 20" barrel.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
I had the pleasure to be filming Steve Hornady on the Ruger .416 first safari in the Zambezi Valley. Lion, buff, hippo, all one shot kills. I have since seen this gun on several safaris and have really been impressed. I have always been a .416 fan, and I think Ruger\ Hornady have a real winner with this caliber.
When they released the .375 I was shocked by how many rifles those guys sold, and are still selling ! I took my brown bear with the .416 and look forward on useing it on moose. Overkill? Maybe, but I still favor it over the .375
I thing the pricing on the Ruger will make it a very popular choice with new buff and elephan

Dave,

Ruger is one of your sponsors. I would be very surprised if you didn't support anything they have, but that still doesn't change the fact that the Rem and Rigby have the .416 market pretty well covered, particularly for Africa.

I posted this poll because I think Ruger really, really screwed up on this one. Their 416 could own the medium sized big-bore market. But they are going to kill it because they only offer it in an Alaskan style rifle.

If the 416 Ruger took-off it would force other companies, such as CZ, to chamber their rifles in it which would increase ammo sales.

Because it will not be chambered in an "African style" bolt rifle, too few rifles will sell. In turn sales of ammo will be weak and Hornaday will stop(or cut way back on) producing ammo and components. Then the 416 Ruger will be dead. Remember the 8mm Rem Mag?

Why even bring it out if you are not going to offer it in rifles that sell?

Their folly is so clear that it is unbelievable.

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:
but that still doesn't change the fact that the Rem and Rigby have the .416 market pretty well covered, particularly for Africa.

The M70 is no longer produced in 416 Rem. Are there and inexpensive CRF rifles chambered in 416 Rem?

If the Ruger was to get off the ground it could really take-off. It fits in a standard length action. The Rem and Rigby don't.

Remington had a chance when they brought out their offering because there was a real void between the 375 and 458. The 416 Rigby was not viable at that time due to the lack of ammunition at a reasonable price and actions to handle the cartridge. Since that time there has been a re emergence in the Safari business and interest in large caliber rifles. Rigby offerings are somewhat palatable now and there are a wide variety of firearms available.
Ruger may have missed a real chance, perhaps a day late on this venture; 10 years ago they may have hit a home run!
I think they currently have the makings of a inexpensive superior Alaskan bear rifle that would be hard to beat.

Mr Brown; I believe CZ offers their CRF in 416 Remington. A relatively inexpensive offering.

EZ

I didn't answer the poll because I'm not sure what to answer.

I have 416 Rigby & Taylor, but could probably convince myself to buy a nice, lighter, quick handling Ruger in wood, but I would like it to look like an express rifle,like RSM, but without the weight, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
I had the pleasure to be filming Steve Hornady on the Ruger .416 first safari in the Zambezi Valley. Lion, buff, hippo, all one shot kills. I have since seen this gun on several safaris and have really been impressed. I have always been a .416 fan, and I think Ruger\ Hornady have a real winner with this caliber.
When they released the .375 I was shocked by how many rifles those guys sold, and are still selling ! I took my brown bear with the .416 and look forward on useing it on moose. Overkill? Maybe, but I still favor it over the .375
I thing the pricing on the Ruger will make it a very popular choice with new buff and elephant hunters coming up in the safari game.

Suspect those one shot kills would have been the same with a 416 Anything. That said, I use a M70 416 Rem Mag, Would love to have a custom 416 Rigby, and while I hope the Ruger makes it commercially, I don't think it will see the success of the Remington or Rigby in Africa.

I didn't vote cause I really hope 416 makes it, but to me it looks like Ruger is doing nothing to help get it started!

Form their website:

M77 African Hawkeye = 375 Ruger only
M77 African Mark II = 375 H&H, 416 Rigby & 458 Lott

But no 416 Ruger anywhere to be found!!!!!

Ray,
From the Ruger Web page
416 Ruger M77 Hawkeye Alaskan with Hawkeye® Matte Stainless finish.
Warren

Morning Boys
Yes Ruger is a sponsor, and yes Steve's good shooting would have been equally effective if he had been shooting a Remington or another of the .416 options. I did not state otherwise, only gave my impressions of my personal experience. I have personally taken buffalo with a REM .416 as well as a half a dozen other guns that are my personal guns and non sponsor rifles.All will get the job done, but that was not the point of the thread, it was about the Ruger. They are coming out with a more classic walnut stock for those who want wood , it is just taking a bit of time. Never has there been such a interest in big bore rifles, or DG hunting , and I think the guys at Ruger see a market and are building a popular option to get their piece of the market pie. There are a lot of .375's out there too, but NOBODY sold as many .375's as Ruger has since their introduction of that caliber.
Just good old free market at work.I wish them well with the gun, know the guys that buy it will love it, and am glad to see anyone, with any brand rifle headed to Africa to do what we all love to do.

I'm with Dave here. I'm hardly one to jump on the latest gadget or whiz bang magnum but the the 416 Ruger is a viable choice for the first big bore or a guy moving up from the 375. One thing Ruger has done is make a rifle FOR African DG. Is there another off the shelf rifle with, real express sights, CRF, 3 position safety, rock solid detachable scope mounts and matte finish? If I bought one I'd only bed it, adjust the trigger and increase the LOP. Other factory rifles just take more tweaking. Another thing I like about it is that it is not a big, clunky, unweildy and heavy rifle. If I was just now embarking on the quest for big bore I'd give this Ruger a serious look.

Mark

You can always have a custom or semi custom stock made. Then you would have the best of both worlds.

Does anyone know iif Accurate Innovations makes a stock to fit the Ruger 416 Hawkeye ?

I have a .375 Ruger and a .416 Ruger. I remain a skeptic. I think the recoil in both is noticeably sharper than in the .375H&H and the other .416's. Why endure more recoil with no appreciable improvement in performance? I will continue to grab the .375H&H, .416 Rem or .416 Rigby before I will grab the same caliber Ruger off the rack.

With a large ghost ring aperture sight set up I can't think of a better set up than the .416 Ruger Alaskan for cruising the alders in big bear country.

quote:

Originally posted by clayman216:
Does anyone know iif Accurate Innovations makes a stock to fit the Ruger 416 Hawkeye ?

Talked to accurate innovations and yes they can build a stock for it, no problem.

Also talked to Ken Jorgensen in Vegas and he was hoping they would have the walnut stock out in the summer, or as soon as they were able to get the kinks worked out. Dave Fulson would know more about this than me but that is what I was told.

Nobody can touch Ruger on price point or marketing, I think that will make it popular in the short run, long run, only time will tell.

I would suggest the .416 B&M would be a better alternative. If I was gonna give up my .416Rem, that's the one I'd go for. In either case, Ruger or B&M, you had better have your own ammunition, 'cause you won't find any on the dark continent.

HKM77RSPHHM 17120 Black Hogue® OverMolded® 20.00" .416 Ruger 40.75" 7.75 lbs. $1099.00




It is my opinion that the 416 Ruger was aimed at Alaska for brown bear and moose and that is the reason you only find it in stainless steel, and synthetic! Africa is pretty well covered, with the African Hawkeye. I see it as an all-around rifle more than a dedicated DGR for Africa even in the African Hawkeye. If I were buying a 416 Ruger my choice would likely be the stainless steel/synthetic version for Alaska.

Americans have no bar to hand-loading their own ammo, and that rifle that is chambered for this cartridge is much better suited to Alaskan hunting. However used my 375H&H rifles in Alaska for many years, with no problem it couldn’t handle, and the same goes for Africa for that matter. For my primary DGR for Africa it is always a double rifle and not in .416 caliber.

.........................................................................................................

Your "Blue/Wood" (only rifle suitable for Africa) certainly is NOT valid! I'd pick the Stainless Synthetic version over Blue /Wood for Africa, Alaska, or anywhere.... any day!

Why would I want a potential rusty scratched up rifle? I do not sit around and admire them..... I hunt with and kill things with mine, they live rough lives and I choose the best tool available
for the job!

And from the amount of Stainless Synthetic CRF Model 70's, I see in African trophy pics MANY other folks do not seem to feel "handicapped" by them either!

You can paint, or "dura-coat" the stainless to any color you might prefer if it offends you that much!

Hammer

quote:

Originally posted by HAMMER'em:
Your "Blue/Wood" (only rifle suitable for Africa) certainly is NOT valid! I'd pick the Stainless Synthetic version over Blue /Wood for Africa, Alaska, or anywhere.... any day!

Why would I want a potential rusty scratched up rifle? I do not sit around and admire them..... I hunt with and kill things with mine, they live rough lives and I choose the best tool available
for the job!

And from the amount of Stainless Synthetic CRF Model 70's, I see in African trophy pics MANY other folks do not seem to feel "handicapped" by them either!

You can paint, or "dura-coat" the stainless to any color you might prefer if it offends you that much!

Hammer

Hammer I don't think I made myself clear if you post is in regard to mine. You didn't quote anyone so I have zero idea who you are responding to. In any event, if it is to me, unless someone pissed in your cornflakes, I see no reason for sarcasm!

That being said my meaning was, IMO, RUGER aimed the stainless at Alaska, because in fact it is named the Alaska model while the mat blued and wood rifle is listed as the African model. Their designation, not mine!

Your accusation that synthetic/stainless bothers anyone, sucks! It is just that it is not needed in Africa, and the mat finish is a desirable feature where cats are on license. For hunting lions most people even cover their watch to avoid reflection giving away their position. The synthetic stock is a benefit no matter where or what you hunt.

The stainless is simply more useful and IS NEEDED in Alaska. I have several rifles in synthetic stocks that I use in Africa, and Alaska as well! I don't however have a stainless rifle but it is not because I have anything against them, I just don't have one.

My big bore rifles larger than 375H&H are mostly double rifles, and stainless is not only not available but would be a drawback to properly putting them together, because stainless isn't conducive to soldering.

The reason Ruger hasn't chambered the African model for 416 Ruger, IMO, is because they have the Safari rifles with better cartridges for Africa's Dangerous big three than a short .416 and besides why would the cause the competition between their own products? In my opinion The African and Alaskan rifles are only a large mediums, much like the 375H&H has been for 100 years and will, most times, be secondary to a larger rifle where elephant and buffalo are concerned. Make no mistake I'm not saying the 416 Ruger is not capable of taking those animals, but just that most hunters of those animals will choose something larger. I have found the old 375H&H to be quite adequate for buffalo, but it is my back-up rifle in case my double or it's ammo fails to arrive with me in camp. There is always 375H&H ammo available in Africa.

As far as using your rifles to hunt and kill things, don't place yourself in an exclusive group. Most here hunt and kill things with all their rifles as well. Using a rifle is no reason to abuse it. I have big bore rifles that I've had for 40 years, with hundreds of rounds fired through them, and carried over some of the roughest country you can imagine and they are not beat to hell. IMO anyone who abuses his rifle will sooner or later find it failing him when he least desires it.

................................Now I'm through with this! BYE

I had my LH Ruger 375 African rebored to the 416 Ruger by Arizona Gun Works in Payson, Az. Cost was about $ 350 with shipping. It works great and I will be taking it on my next trip. It is in one of the Ruger Grey Laminate stocks with a good bedding job. I will take it on my next trip to Zim, probably next year (hopefully).

In South Afrika the 375 Ruger is getting a great follwing because the Howa rifles is chamberd in 375 Ruger and is real affordebille, if Howa bring teir rifles out in 416 Ruger it wil ceartely pick up, there is a lot af hunters that is looking for a heafy rifle, and a cheaper rifle in big bore would get a great folowing in RSA, the CZ and other rifles is to expensive in larger bores like 416 Rigby and 458 Win and Lott. The only problem is ammo, the people over here is battleing to get 375 Ruger ammo.

MacD,

My response was not directed at you at all......IT was directed at the poster of the poll.

If you read what he writes, that only Blue/wood rifles are worthy of being carried to Africa.

I do not abuse my rifles, but they are not the object of my adoration, whilst they are sitting in the safe either. My memories of the hunt are not clouded by having a dreaded stainless rifle in the picture with my trophy.

My Win 70 Safari Express in 416 rem came to me as blue/wood (Win only made a very few custom shop rifle in stainless, chambered in 416, I tried in vain to lay my hands on one), I promptly pulled it out of the original stock, got a spray can of OD paint and coated the entire rifle, then installed it in a houge stock that has the full length aluminum bedding block.
IT has always, performed flawlessly, but I personally still wished it was stainless.

As far as shine, stainless or otherwise, that issue is easily corrected as I stated above.

I think the .416 Ruger like the .416 Taylor are both well thought out, well designed cartridges. Being able to get .416 Rem or Rigby performance in a standard action makes these cartridges attractive. But they are several years too late to make a big impact and like some mentioned earlier the big bore market is a limited one hence they will always remain marginal in sales.

I do agree that, though the short Ruger is handy, a more traditional safari rifle might help increase sales albeit slightly...

I love packing my little 416 Ruger around in the field, and it was nice to be so handy in the jess of Zim on my trip over there. It is plenty for buff and ele like the other 416s. Love it even more now that I reload 350 TSX for it, and pack it for elk hunting here in Idaho.

Spent last week with friends in Namibia who have 2 375s and one 416 in the Alaskan. It is their go to gun for big stuff like eland or giraffe. They are licensed game guides for walking tours and pack them for trips out into lion country, and love how easy they pack. Ammo has not been a problem in Windhoek, plus they reload extensively also.

I really like the 416 Ruger, if the Alaskan had a 22" barrel, or available in the African model, it would have been my choice for a 416.

In the end, I had a 404 Jeffery built on a Model 70 UM action.

I should also add that mine is one of the very first to be offered for sale, and came with the sling swivel stud in the stock. They quickly changed to a barrel band swivel.

You must be careful with left hand placement and get a good grip, or your finger will take a thumping! In the fall with shooting glove on, it is never a problem.

I ALWAYS pick stainless/synthetic over blue/wood when given the option for a hunting rifle. I thought the 416 was a very practical choice for my buffalo hunt.......



Like Mark said above "Is there another off the shelf rifle with, real express sights, CRF, 3 position safety, rock solid detachable scope mounts and matte finish". And I might say, all for only $729!

I am also part of the group that passed on 416 Ruger when it wasn't available in African Hawkeye form. Instead I went with M70 Safari Express in 458 WM and am very happy that I did! The price difference was small which resulted in another lost sale for Ruger.