How many in here have actual "hunted" in Africa?.

By this very question I arise here I mean hunting by locating/tracking/finding your game and not being led up to the animal by someone else.
This here is seen in relation to that you come as an overseas paying client/hunter and not as an African continent residential.

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:
How many in here have actual "hunted" in Africa?.

By this very question I arise here I mean hunting by locating/tracking/finding your game and not being led up to the animal by someone else.
This here is seen in relation to that you come as an overseas paying client/hunter and not as an African continent residential.

Jens, I would say that about 50% of the animals I’ve taken in Africa I spotted myself, and the other 50% were divided between the tracker, and the PH. In North America 100 % of the game I’ve taken were tracked and/or spotted by myself. On top of that I would say that a full 80% of the hunting I’ve done outside Africa have been while hunting completely alone!

I truly believe most of the client hunters who have hunted a lot could do their own hunting in Africa as well, if not for the law requiring a PH to accompany a foreign client hunter! Others here may disagree, but I would not be opposed to hunting Africa with one tracker/driver, and a cook/camp supervisor, a skinner and a good hunting vehicle, and a pair of tents. It is the logistics of hunting in Africa that make it what it is. not lack of huntingh skill, IMO!

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quote:

I truly believe most of the client hunters who have hunted a lot could do their own hunting in Africa as well, if not for the law requiring a PH to accompany a foreign client hunter! Others here may disagree, but I would not be opposed to hunting Africa with one tracker/driver, and a cook/camp supervisor, a skinner and a good hunting vehicle, and a pair of tents. It is the logistics of hunting in Africa that make it what it is. not lack of huntingh skill, IMO!

I think that is every hunter's dream. It certainly is mine.

I have hunted PG and buff on my own with just a tracker. It is a whole new dimension in hunting when the whole weight and safety of the group is on your shoulders alone. I hope to do a couple of elephant the same way in the near future.


465H&H

I also have hunted alone and with just a tracker. It has only been plains game in RSA. Good stuff.

Nice to read that not all hunters who comes to Africa are handheld and carried in a Kingchair all the way. I too have enjoyed a certain freedom to hunt plains game. For me hunting is also to have the solitude in the wild/nature. Hunting 1:1 is ok, but to have a whole crowd following you on the actual hunt.To hunt on your own gives the dimension of a feeling and true challenge to actually have hunted. I know ofcouse many factors does play a role of "what kind of hunting" are we talking about. True dangerousgame hunting ofcouse I see it does become wise to be atleast to be another or a few more as things can turn from bad to worse in seconds. Huntinglaws within the different African nations too is a another factor.

Jens,

I think your question is a bit irrelevant to hunting in Africa today.

A visiting hunter MUST have a PH, trackers and game scout with him.

So no matter what he does - as Mac posted above - he is NOT hunting by his own ability.

A keen hunter normally enjoys tracking and loking for game animals, and I think this tends to come with experience.

Hi Saeed.
Yes you are correct..but You can/must have a PH with you at all times but as in the actual hunt a client and a PH can make an plan if to incircle a group of Buffs or antilopes to go each way and meet on the other side of the hill for eksample.
The reason for this question I arise is how a "hunter" just been shooting game in Africa or did you actually get to hunt too. With hunting I mean actual getting an learning the nature of the game hunted for gaining experience for future hunts, finding good areas based on have spended time knowing the locations and taking a responsabillity for the outcome. Some of this may cross what an operater may/wants to do, but really for me it is hunting too.

Unless you have already done multiple hunts with the same PH, what could possibly convince him to let his client hunter go off on his own, even to the other side of herd, to take a shot at an animal that the PH has not identified as a shootable animal? It would be a professional mistake on his part, period.

I have had the opportunity to hunt without a PH in 3 different countries in Africa (I resided in several countries in Africa for over 13 years) but what you are suggesting is just not done.

I was the one who first spotted the five dagga boys moving through the bush at 100 yards while sitting in the land cruiser while my ph and tracker were looking at some promising tracks. I got the ph's attention and he immediately glassed them and a plan was made. And a first-day buff kill was made late in the day.

I have never hunted dangerous game without a PH, nor would I do so if it were possible. I have hunted all my life, and made many trips to Africa and other continents, but I have neither the experience nor confidence to hunt any of the Big Five without assistance.

However, I have taken (literally) truckloads of African antelopes and warthogs over the years either by myself or with only a tracker to help me.

I did this in the 1980s on the farms of South African friends before their country passed what I choose to call "The RSA Outfitter/PH Protection Act" that requires foreigners to be guided, and I did it on private land in Botswana's Tuli Block as recently as the late 1990s.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:

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However, I have taken (literally) truckloads of African antelopes and warthogs over the years either by myself or with only a tracker to help me.

I did this in the 1980s on the farms of South African friends before their country passed what I choose to call "The RSA Outfitter/PH Protection Act" that requires foreigners to be guided, and I did it on private land in Botswana's Tuli Block as recently as the late 1990s.

Bill Quimby

Very good name to use for the Professional Hunting Regulations that were promulgated in the 1980's. But in all honesty the real intention was to protect the hunting clients form unscroupelous, inexperienced and dishonest HO's and PH's.

But a good PH can let the client "Hunt" on his own, and yet maintain the legally recuired direct supervision. I've done it many times this past weekend. Tell the client [in this case South African 'beginner' hunters]: "You walk ahead at your pace and where you wish to go in search of the animals. It is your hunt and your decisions! You check the wind and everything, I just follow along." Only when it becomes clear that the 'client' is about to make a serious mistake, like shooting a wrong sex animal, did I interfere and correct his actions. That way a client learns by having to think for himself - as Jens had to many times while hunting under my 'direct supervision'!

Just BTW, Jens is, for most species, a better hunter than many South African qualified PH's that I know!

In good hunting.

As an African if i were to hunt in any other part of the world i would choose to have a guide; i dont see what the big deal is about hunting alone in Africa?

Imagine a foreigner hunting Marco polo unguided, Grizzly, tramping round Alaska looking for moose? A good guide/ph should add to the experience and not detract from it

I just dont get it but maybe i am missing something.......

quote:

Originally posted by Manyathelo:
As an African if i were to hunt in any other part of the world i would choose to have a guide; i dont see what the big deal is about hunting alone in Africa?

Imagine a foreigner hunting Marco polo unguided, Grizzly, tramping round Alaska looking for moose? A good guide/ph should add to the experience and not detract from it

I just dont get it but maybe i am missing something.......

You are not missing anything out. It is normal when comming to a new country for hunting a guide will assist.
My point as stated a number of times( you may missed that one) was that always being handheld but also try out for you self. Often this could be in relation to an area where the hunter has been a few times before where there may would not become needed for an guide. I know ofcouse many things depends on pre-arangements agreements in order to draw lines legal wise between client and PH. Pesonally I do not care for trophies and would never ask a PH to insure my anything if i went out myself, but I could see a conflict arise if a client has paid $$$$$ for a top bull trophy and go out by himself and shoots a lesser female trophy. But for me hunting is hunting and trophy collecting is a different matter that may not always has to be put in context with hunting.
As many reads I have been hunting with Andrew McLaren and often in areas he didn`t know himself and spending time walking through an area for me is part of the thrill to see what-is-there!. I have enjoyed that no garanties where made in during these hunts on often free-range land to really insure the hunt did not become too institutionalized. I have talked to quite a few hunters who has been to Africa, and over a few pots of coffee I realize that they have never been hunting really. They were just marksmen that came in third after the trackers and PH.

quote:

Very good name to use for the Professional Hunting Regulations that were promulgated in the 1980's. But in all honesty the real intention was to protect the hunting clients form unscroupelous, inexperienced and dishonest HO's and PH's.

That may be the intent, but its effect is to eliminate for no good reason unguided hunting by all foreigners, even by experienced hunters who have permission to hunt as guests on private property where no dangerous game exists, hence the name I call it.

Similar regulations with the same intent resulted in higher daily rates because landowners must comply with authoritarian rules governing facilities for hunters.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by Manyathelo:
As an African if i were to hunt in any other part of the world i would choose to have a guide; i dont see what the big deal is about hunting alone in Africa?

Imagine a foreigner hunting Marco polo unguided, Grizzly, tramping round Alaska looking for moose? A good guide/ph should add to the experience and not detract from it

I just dont get it but maybe i am missing something.......

Manyathelo, The only non-resident that is required to be accompanied by a registered guide in Alaska is one hunting Grizzly, and Sheep. I have hunted Alaska about every year since 1982 from drop camps, where I was dropped off by bush plane on a lake to hunt Caribou, wolf, black bear and moose, and picked up 10 or 12 days later. I live in Texas 2000 miles away from Alaska.

The only person that is required to hire a registered guide is an alien from another country to hunt anything in Alaska, other states do not have that restriction.

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:

That may be the intent, but its effect is to eliminate for no good reason unguided hunting by all foreigners, even by experienced hunters who have permission to hunt as guests on private property where no dangerous game exists, hence the name I call it.

Similar regulations with the same intent resulted in higher daily rates because landowners must comply with authoritarian rules governing facilities for hunters.

Bill Quimby

Bill, I agree that the law was a well meant move by bureaucrats,who have to turn on the TV to find out which way the wind blows and I also agree it also caused a steep rise in daily fees even on private land where there to fore it was only land owner permission. New Mexico did the same thing to out of staters if they hunt public land in New Mexico requiring a state registered guide. I hunted the 96 million acres of public land there fore many years, and know most of that land better than most of the young guides in New Mexico, so because of that law the cost of hunting there went through the roof!

Please don’t get me wrong, I like hunting with a full camp, and staff including a PH in Africa, but I like to do some of the hunting, not just the shooting, and when there I do just that. The costs of hunting Africa is a fact of life that we simply must live with!

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quote:

Originally posted by brent ebeling:
I also have hunted alone and with just a tracker. It has only been plains game in RSA. Good stuff.

Same here.Two days along the old Limpopo River for baboon and bushbuck, just me and Kenneth the tracker.
Great fun

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37: New Mexico did the same thing to out of staters if they hunt public land in New Mexico requiring a state registered guide. I hunted the 96 million acres of public land there fore many years, and know most of that land better than most of the young guides in New Mexico, so because of that law the cost of hunting there went through the roof!

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Not necessarily. A certain percentage of non-res big game licenses are set aside for guided hunts. Others are available for unguided. You just have to specify which pool you want to apply for on your license application. And non-residents can happily hunt all small game and other stuff without a guide. Come on back to NM!

quote:

Originally posted by Manyathelo:
As an African if i were to hunt in any other part of the world i would choose to have a guide; i dont see what the big deal is about hunting alone in Africa? Imagine a foreigner hunting Marco polo unguided, Grizzly, tramping round Alaska looking for moose? A good guide/ph should add to the experience and not detract from it I just dont get it but maybe i am missing something.......

I think what you are missing is that a great many Americans -- especially those of us who grew up hunting big game in our western states -- almost always hunt alone, even when there are others in our camps.

We are accustomed to finding, shooting, gutting, packing out, and butchering our own game with little or no help from others. It is part of our culture, and we long for similar experiences when on your continent.

In Africa, it's been my observation that local hunters seldom hunt alone, even on their own properties. They nearly always have someone with them.

I can imagine no greater thrill than hunting a Marco Polo argali in Asia or even a roebuck or red deer in Europe without a guide. Unfortunately, it will never happen.

Bill Quimby

We can all sit and day dream.

I love reading about hunting and exploration in Africa. I would have loved to have been able to participate in some of those adventures.

Sadly, we are in the 21st century. And although we can participate and enjoy safaris to Africa for a few weeks a year. And in comparison is so different from those years gone by. We can make teh best of it.

Frankly, I have no wish to conduct a solo safari in any country in today's Africa.

May be I am in a slightly different situation than most. As the people I hunt with are very close friends, and this year's hunt will be our 30th year together.

I think this adds to enjoyment of the hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We can all sit and day dream.

I love reading about hunting and exploration in Africa. I would have loved to have been able to participate in some of those adventures.

Spot on!!. Who guided Selous