What are your thoughts on these two doubles? George at Champlin is VERY strong on the Chapius. For the sake of the ensuing debate, let us assume we can get past the country of origin of the Chapius. The Chapius is about $2k higher than the Searcy PH. Thoughts?

This will be an opinion only, since I don't own either of these double rifles! Addtionally, I will not presume to claim to know even half what George Caslin knows where double rifles are concerened!

IMO, the Chapuis is trim, and slim, finished on the outside as well as anything on the market! The specimins I have had any thing to do with have been as accurate as one could expect from a double rifle! One of the things that Goerge likes about the Chapuis, is it's two sided hook-up of the lumps under the barrel butts. I'll admit, on the surface, this is a sound idea, but the thing I don't like about them is, those lumps are more or less hollow, and look a little stamped out! I do not like beavertail fore ends on double rifles, or shotguns, but that can be changed easily. Finally the factory is a little tight fisted when it comes to mending imperfections found in their product! The rifles are made a little light for caliber, IMO, and they don't fit me well. I think they are value for money spent, if they are to your likeing, and I wouldn't even contact the factory, but simply send the rifle to JJ at Champlins, if I had a problem. Lastly the rifle is an "OFF THE SHELF" double, or one size fits all. If that doesn't bother you, and if it fits you then it is a nice rifle!
It is my understanding, that the factory will build to fit, at extra cost!

The B. Searcy PH, or in fact, any of the new Searcys are made to fit the customer,and not at extra cost, that's the only way they come. The wood is near exibition grade in even the PH model. I don't know of a double rifle in the world, old or new, that is more accurate than a B.Searcy, regardless of chambering. The actions are made from scratch, milled from solid billets of very tough stainless steel. The Mono block system of fitting is as strong as any double system ever made. The last 3.5, or 4 inches of the barrel butts, and the lumps are milled from one solid piece of steel, with the barrels threaded into the monoblock, with the joint so well fitted it looks like it is one piece. CNC machining, has taken some of the hard grunt work out of building double rifles, but the final fitting is still done by hand, and is very well done of these field grade PH models. What most seem to not know is, that CNC machineing is used by every maker of double rifles in the world today, so is not an indicator of poor quality, or lack of skill on the part of the makers. It is simply a better method, that can cut cost, and that is good for the customer.

In the final annalisis, the B.Searcy is fitted to you, the Chapuis is not, the Chapuis is light for caliber, and the Searcy is weighted to chambering. Since the wood is top notch to start with, and it is also custom made to your likeing. They are both accurate, but the Chapuis costs $2000 us, more for an oof the shelf, compared to $2000 US less for a made to order double rifle, that is just as accurate, and as strong, but weighted properly for chambering! The ballance is about the same for both! However, Butch is only a phone call away, if you live in the USA,Canada, or Mexico, in case you have a problem! Chapuis seems to have an ulisted number, after the sale!

I would not be ashamed to own either, but my choice would have to be the Searcy, for purely thecnical reasons, along with the extra $2000US I'd have in my hand for the next hunt, but the country of origin "IS" a factor IMO!

Both are good, and it is really a matter of which one you like, it's your money!

Calling Chapuis, and speaking directly to someone whose last name is Chapuis and who makes the rifles, is not a problem and the number is not unlisted. I don't own an Express rifle (but I do own a Chapuis side by side in 12 gauge) and bought it almost ten years ago when the exchange rates were better than they are now. At that time I think it may have been the best deal on a side by side 12 gauge one could find. All of the Chapuis guns have elegant lines, good wood (several grades available of course) and they can arrange for exquisite engraving if that matters to anyone. There aren't any ugly Chapuis guns that I am aware of. They don't benefit from the same worldwide recognition that other double gun makers may have, but they are seriously about making a good product and their semi-industrial guns show it. Their hand made guns are superb.

I have shot 2 Chapuis doubles and they shot well. Not better than a Searcy, but good enough to catch my attention. None of the Chapuis I have handled fit me well, but I suppose that is personal preference. Also, in my opinion you get a better grade of wood on a standard Searcy than on a Chapuis.

Someone posted either here or on Nitroexpress.com that Chapuis do not hold up to a lot of shooting, but I cannot recall who said it. Maybe that fellow will come forward and let us know what happened. I know of one Searcy that held up to more than 6000 shots without going out of regulation or off face, for what that's worth.

The other side of the coin is that if the US dollar keeps taking a nose dive, a Chapuis will be forced to appreciate by virtue of the currency differential. But if the dollar recovers, a Chapuis will drop in value.

I have a Chapuis and it fits me perfectly. In fact that is one of the reasons why I bought it. I have fired hundards of rounds through it. It has been to Africa 4 times and it shows no wear. It is very accurate, well balanced and for the money you can't beat it. Chapuis is the largest Double Rifle maker in the world. You should see their factory. You might want to ask Johan Calitz from Botswana about the Searcy.
I wouldn't buy any thing from Chaddick's, talk about ARROGANCE. CHEERS P.S. F the French.

Chapius and Krieghoff just handle like a 2x4 for me...The douglas is a very nice rifle and the Merkle handles well but the engraving is not my choice...

I now have my first Searcy and like all Searcy owners I have found the gun of choice for me..

My reasoning is the Searcys are unbelievably accurate, they seem to shoot everything to the same POI and thats is phenominal in any rifle much less a double rifle, they shoot Barnes X, GS Customs, Northfork FN and Cup point solids, all to the same POI, as well as all softs that I have tried and all with max loads for a double or with a reduced load, any reduced load...I can get a 100 FPS or more in velocity over any English gun and 100 FPS with a 500 gr. bullet counts for something...

Sure, I still admire a fine English gun, owned a bunch of them and I still love them and will own them from time to time as long as I am around, but they are not as good a hunting rifle as the Searcy regardless of the BS spread all over the internet, mostly by diehards who have never hunted or owned a Searcy, hey I used to be one of those guys, there just pissed because I moved on and left them on their sofas, cuddling each other, smoking cubans and wearing their silly pith helmets in the den full of mounted baboons and plainsgame!!...

Now if that doesn't stir some ca-ca, I'll eat my hat!

Jeeez I am sorry, don't forget that sinle malt crap, you know the stuff that taste like Pete Moss!!!

OK guys I am sorry, just having fun on the computer and laughing my silly ass off...

Ray, we can always count on you for some ca-ca!!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Jeeez I am sorry, don't forget that sinle malt crap, you know the stuff that taste like Pete Moss!!!

OK Ray, tell us what Pete Moss tastes like and who he is!


If you mean the single malt that tastes like peat moss, that's an entirely different story!

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
OK Ray, tell us what Pete Moss tastes like and who he is!

That is the most disturbing fleeting mental image I have had in a long time! YUCK!

Best,

JohnTheGreek

P.S. Given that the costs are the same if you don't buy a Chapuis from Champlin's AND you can have the Chapuis or Searcy fit to you...I think it is just about 6 of one and half a dozen of the other here. The stainless action on the Searcy may just give that gun the nod. I would order it sans engraving though and then have Scrollcutter (who posts here) work some of his magic. JMHO.

I have a Chapuis in 9.3x74R and a Field grade Searcy in .470 NE.

The Chapuis has an odd stock configuration ... long and thin. The receiver is slender. The rifle is light but points and shoots well. Has a 1.5-6x42 Schmidt & Bender scope on it. Really is a lovely rifle for its intended purpose. Has 20 gauge barrels and has performed for me better than any shotgun I've ever owned.

A local guy here has a .470 NE Chapuis and I'd love to hear his comments as he has shot my Searcy. Unfortunately, I've not had the chance to shoot his Chapuis.


My Searcy is for a different purpose and it fits that purpose very well. It is about the right weight for rompin', stompin' IMR 4831 loads that Searcy recommends for use in it. The recoil is firm and noticable, but not brutal as I suspect a lighter Chapuis just might be.

The wood on the Searcy is better.

The metal finish on the Field Grade Searcy is very plain. Well fitted, but plain.

The PH appears to have very light but tasteful engraving and to be more slender. Sure looks nice from my point of view.

The Searcy and the Chapuis are both accurate with the Searcy taking the edge ... really is simply amazing. It definitely shoots better than I can see in my old age. 2" at 100 yards is not abnormal for it.


The Searcy will be more robust, but the Chapuis will likely be tough enough if you're a little cautious with the reloading. I suspect that it is much hardier than say a Merkel.

In choosing the brand for a new .470 acquisition, I'd recommend you heft both rifles and shoot them if possible. Then buy what fits and feels good if the added robustness of the Searcy doesn't seems necessary for your intended use.

searcy all the way...........chapuies who?????

I'll be taking delivery on a Searcy later this year, or by SCI '06. Frankly it was aperson-to-person chat with Butch that really closed the deal.

don't know squat about the guns other than what's been said here.

BUT, I'll promise you this (coming from a guy that burned over 2K rounds of .300 RUM last year) I'll ring that sucker out proper - then I'll be able to truly comment on the performance of the Searcy!

JW out!

I have no experience with Searcy, but I have a Chapuis and have owned it for about four years or so. As Mac said, Chapuis has some quality control issues from time to time. My top lever catch broke in a short while (the inside of the action was unfinished), the hammers were too soft, and they regulated it with the wrong cartridge. I had to put several hundred of my own money fixing it. Chapuis was not helpful to me with my problems. This was even more annoying since I was living in France at time, visited the factory, meet Rene Chapuis, ordered it to my specifications etc. Still did not stop the problems. Most of my French hunting buddies don't think too much of them.

However, as New guy said Chapuis if you order are made to your measurements like Searcy. You have to remember the price in Europe, or at least France, for a 470 Chapuis is only like 6,000 bucks (about 3,500 for a 9.3x74r), so its difficult to compare them with Butch's rifles who seems to devote more time to making a quality product than Chapuis does. A better comparison would be with Heym or Demas.

After all the work on the rifle I do like. They handle well and seem pretty strong. Its fun to shoot and hunt with.

I'm one of the Searcyophiles.

My .470 is a 1" gun at 50 yards, shoots 500 grain bullets at a whopping 2250 fps (about what you get with a Lott) and was built to fit me. (BTW, I did all the "fitting' measurements and finally just told Butch my shirt size... which worked perfectly as Butch wears the same size... ). Butch sent me pictures of the stock blanks he had and I got to pick the one I wanted... That's service.

Here are two targets that I may have bragged upon before... but this is out-of-the-box accuracy at a measured 50 yards and deserves another plug. I don't think that H&H would dare to promise the same:





I have a couple of 90 year-old English doubles and have owned more, but if I'm not courting traditions, and just plain damn well want to kill something that wants to kill me... a Searcy will do just fine... and 90 years from now, it will be just as functional as my Westley Richards.

As to Chapuis... If I could get by the French connection.. I thought that the 9.3x74 double that Euro Import has had at Dallas the last two years for about 5K was a quick handling little rifle... and the QD scope system wouldn't be bad on a deer lease... If it cost a grand less, I'd have bought it. Tony Black loves his, and he is a professional shooter and knows what works and what doesn't. The bigger bores don't thrill me though. I'd buy a Merkel .470 for 3 to 5 thousand less and just add a recoil pad and use the extra for another safari.

I searched .470's for sale and found this Merkel:

Merkel www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976521210.htm

If I was trying to save every buck, didn't care about appreciation, just wanted something that worked, didn't reload, and wasn't going to shoot more than 50 or so rounds a year from a double (practicing with something else, I reckon) not needing the everlasting strength of the Searcy, I'd look seriously at this rifle. The last PH I hunted with in Africa used a Merkel.. was satisfied with the accuracy... and killed animals that were up close and personal regularly with his. Just a thought if you want a VW, instead of a Corvette.

I did all that deliberation and went ahead and forked out the extra few grand for the Searcy and am absolutely satisfied with my decision... but I'm pretty sure a buffalo or two and an elephant wish I'd got something not quite so dependable and accurate.

And as to getting paid for my endorsements... Butch has promised me a day of Mexican food and margaritas, starting at 10:00 a.m. if I keep up the favorable b.s., and that's no b.s. Just call him as ask.. he won't deny it!

Pretty good Shootin' JudgeG:

Here's a Chapuis at 100 yards.

New Guy:

Are you sure that it was 80 grains of IMR 4831 on the first target. I'm using more than 25 grains more to get 2250 fps in my .470. The RL19 seems pretty underpowered, too. Or you shooting something other than a .470? Tony Black (in front of several posters here) killed something or other at a lasered 240 yards with two hits in a couple of seconds from his Chapuis 9.3x74.. That's mighty dang accurate in my book.

I can't see anything at 100 yards, btw... except Ray crawling away from my dog pen. That's why my targets are at 50.

Sorry, that's a 375 - not a 470.

JudgeG
It was a coyote shot kneeling at 271 yards.
I hit a kudu 3 shots out of four at a little over 300 yards with the 9,3 Chapuis in Zim.

Another whacked out Searcyphile speaks up...

I can confirm all the really cool stuff said about Searcy rifles, they are pretty darn useable.

My longest range kill to date with my Searcy .470NE is a Black Wildebeest at 218 yards laser ranged. I reguarly kill hogs out past 100 yards with it. Without even a second thought the gun is serious accurate and stout as hell. One serious no nonsense peice of hunting hardware.

I can't compare it to a Chapuis because I haven't ever shot one.

quote:

and

I have a 470NE Brousse. It is a wonderful gun. It is heavy, but very well balanced. I chose it after carefully comparing Searcy and Chapuis at the SCI show. And was not disapointed.

The only things I did not like were the triggers (a bit to heavy) and the ejection (a bit light). I love the sights, the wood;metal finish.

I also have a 9.3mm Chapuis which is a joy of a gun. Accurate, light and fits me perfectly. The 20ga barrels maintain the same balance. It is the perfect one battery gun as you can range from fowl to elephant (a possible strech), sage grouse to elk, ducks to jaguar. Perfect for buffalo.

The wood of both of mine is FAR better than the Searcy. My stock was made to my dimensions as were a few other things (engraving, pistol cap). If you desire, you can order a Chapuis with all the specials.

I am really happy with both rifles, particularly given that I like to REALLY USE THEM in wet and hot jungles. Here in south america I have had many offers 4 or 5 grant over what I paid for them, but did not and wont sell.

What graveyard did this thread get dug up in, I posted on it a few years back as I recall!

Oh well since then I got my NEW searcy classic in a 450-400-3" and it shoots and inch every time at 50 and most of the time at 75 yds and thats as good as the .470 I sold..I like that kind of accuracy in any iron sighted rifle..

This new gun accidently has detachable rings with it, so I will try a scope on a double but just to work up loads mind you! Only a child molester or sodimist would shoot a scope on a double..

Guess I'm Searcyonomopolis or whatever that was!

The Chapius does not fit me nor feel good to me and inside its kind of tinney IMO..Other than the Searcy I don;t care for any of the new doubles. Also the Searcy is made in American by Americans and guess I'm old fashion and probably not political correct in todays America, but that's the way it is...If Searcy wasn't around I'd have to opt for a English gun or a Francotte. but that's why they made Fords and Chevys and the good Lord gave us free choice, and the conservatives are trying to keep it that way!

quote:

Originally posted by Ddouble:
[QUOTE]and

The wood of both of mine is FAR better than the Searcy. My stock was made to my dimensions as were a few other things (engraving, pistol cap). If you desire, you can order a Chapuis with all the specials.

/QUOTE]

D,

What Searcy are you comparing your wood against. Searcy stocks come in several different grades and no two are the same as each rifle is stocked with an individual piece of wood. Every one is different.

I am not knocking your Chapuis. I am just curious as to what stick your are measuring against.

quote:

This new gun accidently has detachable rings with it, so I will try a scope on a double but just to work up loads mind you! Only a child molester or sodimist would shoot a scope on a double..

Well, How do you really feel Ray? Are you a sodomite (I think this is what you were trying to spell) if you scope a 9.3? Do tell, because I'll have to dump mine if it means that I engage in sodomy... dang, good to know!


Oh yeah, I had a chapuis 470 that was very accurate, but it wasn't well balanced in my opinion being a bit barrel heavy. I don't know much about searcy rifles, but I'd take a Heym over both (yes this is a biased opinion, but aren't they all?)

I don't know much about doubles
I own a used searcy 470----and love it.
when I bought my used searcy, I had a few difficulties with the ejectors, so I called butch and informed him of my troubles.

I sent it in for repairs and it came back like new----without charge! ---new springs etc.
that is service---even though I wasn't the orginal owner, it was repaired at no charge---that's why my next double will also be a Searcy.

As an importer of Chapuis guns, let me provide an overview of their range of double rifles.

Chapuis guns are available in 6 stock styles: field w. English grip, field with PG, Monte Carlo French style cheekpiece, German cheekpiece, Bavarian, and Swan Belly w English grip. There are six grades of wood offered. Generally, the entry level guns have "2 star" wood and the fancier guns have better wood. Customers can order any grade of wood with any gun. You can have the gun made to any dimension you like in terms of LOP, drops, cast-off. Outside of the "normal" range, there is a slight upcharge for custom dimensions. The forends can be semi-BT or splinter.

They are offered with claw or pivot mounts in either 30mm or 25.4mm. The guns come standard with iron sights (style depending on the model) and the ribs are all pre-dovetailed to allow the later addition of scope mounts if desired.

The small frame DRs can be fitted with 20ga shotgun bbls. The large frame (Brousse, Jungle etc) can be fitted with 20, 16 or 12 ga shotgun bbls.

They will regulate the gun for you with any ammo available in France, or if not available made available by you. Also with your actual scope.

The range is pretty extensive, forgetting for a moment their o/u rifles, bolt rifles, and their shotguns. There are two basic frame sizes, the smaller will take up to a 9.3x74 and the larger up to the 470 nitro. The smaller guns typically weigh 7.2 lbs naked while the larger frame guns weigh 10.8 lbs naked.

Within the small frame size, there are three product lines: the entry level "Classics", with laser-cut engraving, "French Gray" scalloped receiver, and hand-cut checkering. There are four models in this range, with or without sideplates, and with or without ejectors. The extractor version can be had for around $4250 with European game scenes, or (and this is a little known secret) with a buffalo head on the bottom of the gun. In my opinion, even with the outrageous exchange rate, there is no better value for money in a SXS double rifle period.

The same small frame gun can be had in the new "Artisan" round-bodied version with hand-cut engraving, better wood, and engraved skeleton buttplate and skeleton PG cap. The game scenes are again European (Boar, Stag, Roe Deer etc) but another little secret, we (exclusively) have them with African game scenes (kudu, leopard warthog) instead. This range offers custom features in a hand-finished gun at an affordable price.

The pinnacle of the small action guns is the "Luxe" and "Grand Luxe" range available in four models, the Supreme and Regent with scalloped action, and the Imperial and President with sideplated action. These guns are entirely hand finished, carved and engraved to the highest standards, and sport exhibition quality wood.

Now moving up to the larger action size, the "African" series, available in cals from 300 Win Mag up to 470 NE. These actions are machined from high tensile forgings (not investment castings), reninforced at the "L", have ejectors standard, and the rib is an "I" beam, not two separate flimsy ribs. This action is available in 3 models. The Brousse is the entry level model with French Gray scalloped action, hand-engraved with glorious bold floral scroll and a buffalo head on the underside. The "Jungle" has sidplates and is engraved with buffalo, elephant and lion scenes. The "Savane" is yet another step up with sculpted action, even more intense game scene engraving, and the best wood. The guns all have engraved steel PG caps with storage compartments and Pachmyr "Old English" pads. Express sights with one fixed/3 folding are standard.

These guns, even the entry level Brousse, are quite elaborate for the money. They are not comparable in fit and finish to the plain Searcy guns. We sell the Brousse for around $11500 currently without any bells and whistles. This is a fully-engraved gun with game scenes and AAA wood, full length trigger bow, engraved grip cap etc. The basic Searcy DG rifle is now priced at $16K and it's an exceedingly plain gun.

While I have the audience, we will be bringing in a custom 24" sxs slug gun, regulated for Brennekes, built like a double rifle but offered in 20ga with screw chokes for woods hunting in those areas where rifles are illegal, as well as for use on turkeys. This will be offered with an optional set of bird barrels as well.

In summary, a very extensive range of double rifles with many innovative features at an extremely affordable price point, made possible by a high level of automation and smart design.

The only thing we can find fault with right now is the exchange rate. That favors Searcy big time, obviously.

quote:

D,
What Searcy are you comparing your wood against. Searcy stocks come in several different grades and no two are the same as each rifle is stocked with an individual piece of wood. Every one is different.

Surestrike, thanks for your question as I should have been more clear. Both of my guns are "standard" (cheapest, basic wood). Yet people at my gun club who have "exibition grade" Perazzis, Berettas, Lebau Corallys, etc and Searct come and ask me about the beautiful wood on my Chapuis. Actually I don´t know if they made some kind of mistake when shipping mine!!! I know I paid the basic stock wood and extra only to fit my dimensions. I was comparing the basic stocks on mine with the one Searcy 500-416 of a good friend and other (few I must admit) ones I saw at gun clubs.

Atikinson, I love free choice, and love even more political incorrectness!! Also I don´t particularly like french stuff. But maybe free choice could include buying french made stuff. If we can buy chinese junk, vietnamise junk and from many other countries junk, why not buying good, cheap French made stuff???

Russ,

I like how the Chapuis fit me.

A few years ago I was fitted for a .470 N by JJ at Champlin.

He used a "Try Gun" and said the cast off and other dimensions were within what Chapuis could do with their std stock blanks.

I recall that this service was offered at no or modest cost.

Is that still true?

Andy

I have a Chapuis 9.3X74R and I have an old English 450/400 3 inch. If I could afford a new big bore double rifle today it would be a Searcy. Everyone I have seen has been drop dead beautiful and shoots as great as they look.
You can get proper 26 inch barrels on your new Searcy rifle.
However, the No.1 reason I'd buy a Searcy made double rifle is Butch Searcy, period!

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
I have a Chapuis 9.3X74R and I have an old English 450/400 3 inch. If I could afford a new big bore double rifle today it would be a Searcy. Everyone I have seen has been drop dead beautiful and shoots as great as they look.
You can get proper 26 inch barrels on your new Searcy rifle.
However, the No.1 reason I'd buy a Searcy made double rifle is Butch Searcy, period!

What Rusty said!

Hello

I first have too say that I do not own a DR, but as things go , I have two friends , both PH'S one Hancke Hudson with a 470 Chapuis, and the Billy Swanepoel , a Searcy 470, these are both guns that sees very active use as Backup and general use in the true DR world,

Hancke's Chapuis had teething problems , cause we reload in SA, Mauritz Coetzee sorted out the loads and now that is one sweet shooting DR, accurate , light enough too carry all day.

Billy's Searcy admittedly is one of the older models, I would guess about 8 years old, also we reload for it, cause of costs, but the darn thing will not get better than 2.5-3 inches at 50 yards, is heavy as hell and just as ugly, and for the last two years has been giving serious double discharge problems, the agent in SA tried too fix it with no real sucess as it is still doing it, Billy is going too send it back too Searcy too fix soon,

I know of at least 3 other Searcy's that started double dischargs after some intensive use as well, and all of them accuarycy is not comparable, maybe it is because they are older models ??

I have shot both rifles and must admit I prefer the Chapuis but will stand corrected if I get a chance to shoot and use newer Searcy, these gusn are all over 8-10 years old

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:

These guns, even the entry level Brousse, are quite elaborate for the money. They are not comparable in fit and finish to the plain Searcy guns. We sell the Brousse for around $11500 currently without any bells and whistles. This is a fully-engraved gun with game scenes and AAA wood, full length trigger bow, engraved grip cap etc. The basic Searcy DG rifle is now priced at $16K and it's an exceedingly plain gun.

Russ,

The basic Searcy is now priced at $12,000 not $16,000 as you stated, a quick look at Butches web site will confirm this information. And YES they are producing them again.

As far as the "extensive" engraving on the basic Chapuis goes I'd rather have a "plain" gun with some hand engraving than that thick Teutonic looking machined engraving on the Brousse. I find that style of engraving to be a bit repulsive.

The Searcy "classic" is now priced at $16,000.

As to the Game Scenes, Triple A wood, engraving, well all I can say is there are various grades of engraving, and different types, kinds, of wood along with layout etc. There is gaudy and there is class, and based on that I was not impressed with the Brousse..Not to be rude but you opened the door to another opinion..I bought a searcy classic because I liked the case hardening and lightly engraved with classic taste and very well executed. It was well done and to my likeing, and fit me perfect..

I guess it just depends on who wants what..I chose to pay the $16,000 after checking out the rest..Like most things I think you get what you pay for, and sometimes it just best to go first class.

Guess thats what makes a horse race..but to each his own, and if one is happy with whatever he has, then that is the gun for him..

quote:

Originally posted by Kwan:
Hello

Billy's Searcy admittedly is one of the older models, I would guess about 8 years old, also we reload for it, cause of costs, but the darn thing will not get better than 2.5-3 inches at 50 yards, is heavy as hell and just as ugly, and for the last two years has been giving serious double discharge problems, the agent in SA tried too fix it with no real sucess as it is still doing it, Billy is going too send it back too Searcy too fix soon,

Kwan, First off, a 2.5 - 3 inch composit group @ 50 yds, from a properly held double rifle, is exceptional for any double rifle, and I suspect some well done handloads, and proper resting will yeald better groupings. The African habit of resting a rifle dirrectly on the sticks, or dirrectly on sand bags, will not work well with double rifles! A properly held double rifle, is never allowed to touch anything other than the shooter's hands, face, and shoulder. They can be rested on sand bags, but the hand must be between the rifle, and the bag and the rifle haeld as if shooting off hand. This is beacuse, a double rifle depends on the recoil arch to shoot to regulation. If this recoil arch is interfered with in any way, it will not shoot properly. This applies to old, and new alike!

However, I'd like to ask, what action is the Searcy, you are talking about, made on? If it is made on a box lock Browning action (BLACK ACTION)it is considerably older than 10 yrs, OR, is the action stainless steel. If the action is stainless, then it could still be 10 yrs old, but not much older than that. Butch's rifles were made on the little Browning BSS shotgun actions for the first few yrs of his doubles, and the first few had single selective triggers,and were very barrel heavy, making them seem heavier than they really are. His early stainless actioned rifles were very boxy as well, and did weigh a little heavy, but were accurate enough.

The newer Searcys are very well balanced, and are far more slinder, especially the new "CLASSIC" modles, and now intercepters, and thrid fasteners, are available on the ones coming out now! His rifles are not H&Hs, but he will tell you himself, he is not trying to compete with them, either in fit, and finish, or certainly not price point!

quote:

I know of at least 3 other Searcy's that started double dischargs after some intensive use as well, and all of them accuarycy is not comparable, maybe it is because they are older models ??

I have shot both rifles and must admit I prefer the Chapuis but will stand corrected if I get a chance to shoot and use newer Searcy, these gusn are all over 8-10 years old

The doubleing thing is not good, for sure, but this is the first time I have heard of a Searcy actioned double haveing this problem. I'm not saying it isn't true, just that it is news to me. I will say, a gunsmith that can't fix a double rifle that has a double dischargeing problem, in not a gunsmith, but a plumber! It is most likely poor care that has caused this problem, with worn engagement surfaces, between the sears, and tumblers. The fix for this is to tig weld the surfaces to build them up slightly, and re-cut the engagement angles. Searcy doubles do not have sear intersepters, on the older models, but are a recent feature offered on the newer rifles.

I'm not saying the Chapuis is not a well made rifle, and they are very accurate, in most cases. At least everyone I've come in contact with, but no more accurate than the Searcys I've had dealings with. The Searcy rifles are deffinetly heavier than the Chapuis rifles, but then so is every other double rifle made! This is one thing I do not like about the Chapuis rifles! The barrels are too short,, and thin walled, and the beaver tail forestock is out of place on a double rifle. The actions are too small for the chamberings larger than 9.3X74R, and to top that off they are made in FRANCE!

I hope he does send the rifle back to Butch, because I would like to see it taken apart, to see for myself what the problem really is with these rifles! It may be as you suspect, and are simply made wrong, but I'd bet my hat, the doubleing is caused by poor care of the locks. I base this on the rifles I've seen in camps all over Africa. Most look like they have been stored in a pig sty for the off season, and washed out with water from a muddy pan.

I don't own a Searcy,or a Chapuis double rifle,but have shot both on many occasions, and have hunted in the field with both, over the last twenty yrs, and I must say the new Searcys are a vast improvement over the older ones, in every way, again especially the CLASSIC" model! The price of the newer Searcys is not $4000 USD any longer,but the rifle is not a $4000USD rifle any longer either!

.............................Keep us advised on the problem

You will have many better opinions than mine about the construction and functionality of the different double guns available. When I purchsed my 450 NE this year I was considering a Chapius, Heym and a Searcy. In the end Butch made the difference in my decesion, he will stand behind what he produces and the firearm is manufactured in the US. I believe that you will be satisfied for whichever path you choose just make sure that the weapon fits you and how you intend to use it... Good luck

Ray,

Just for clarification purposes for our other readers. The PH model is the base model Searcy at $12,000 and it is one to which I referred above. The classic at $16,000 is the next grade up and it is far and away a classier rifle than the basic grade Brousse IMO.

I was comparing apples to apples with the PH and Brousse.

As Russ points out the Chapuis is a forged receiver and I understand that the Searcy is cast. That's enough in my book to rule out the Searcy as a purchase for me personally. I too have heard the Chapuis sometimes has teething problems and even some QC issues as well, still. Chapuis had more prevalent QC issues what is now decades ago and as I understand it the company's reputation continues to suffer to this day in some parts of Europe. This was the main reason that gunmaker Paul Demas left Chapuis to start his own shop. If you like the Chapuis you'd like the Demas rifle even better and if you're like me you'd like it much better. I'd like nothing better than to buy a US made DR but the Searcy never did it for me and France electing a conservative prez eased my angst over buying a gun from Gaul.

Showbart, I could be wrong, but I believe the Searcy action body is milled from a solid billet of pre-hardened steel. Stainless for most, and the exception may be the classic, which may be carbon steel, because it is case colored.

I don't know if you can case color stainless. But I don't think the action bodies are cast. That is no drawback anyway, because modern castings are as good, or in some cases, better than forged!

The quality of steel is in the alloy, and very scientific tempering process, and stress relieving of the finished product. The castings of today are very pure in the steel fluid leaving no fissures, and the stress relieving process is as good as it gets. We are not talking 19th century technology where steel is concerned today!

The fact that a double rifle is 18th century technology, for the most part, the material is not! It is as modern as tomorrow's sunrise, and far better than the steel used in the old rifles! Decoration, has little value where quality of a double rifle is concerned, and is sometimes used to take attention away from deficiencies

Of course you are welcome to buy what YOU perceive to be the best process. The rifle you posted pictures of is a beautiful rifle, for sure, and the little technical differences between most modern made doubles are minor, and all have good, and bad points, but none of them are all bad, or good! So it comes down to personal preference, and pride of ownership!

As I told the original poster, I don't own either of the makes involved in his quest for a winner, so I don't have a dog in the fight, but I like them all for different reasons!

No, it's what I "heard" and of all places it was here. Go figure. I'm glad that it's not a casting. I want the Searcy to be the best it can be. And the "truth" about modern castings doesn't change my feelings that I would always want guns forged from solid steel. I didn't buy my DR just because it's pretty but also because it's hand built but without castings and is very smooth, more English than any of the guns I've considered.