Well Kim, you've reeled in another one budddy. Nice catch. You are to be commended for your open letter invitation to the other Mark. You and I both know as writers that Mark worked long and hard on his response. He is extremely articulate, has a way with words and as I knew he would---stood firmly on his position and how he hunts.

You can't help but admire a man who steps into the lion's den to argue his case. Nice job by you too Sully.

Kim, I'm recommending that you personally extend a similar written invitation to SCI to explain its side of the Sullivan story.

In full disclosure, I am a Life Member of SCI in pretty good standing. I do exhibit at the SCI show, am in the top 1/3 for points accrued, donate substantially to the organization, have conducted shooting seminars at the show for the last three years. Earlier this year in Reno, I was fortunate to have received the First Place Major Award/Africa trophy for the #2/SCI Mt. Nyala I took. At the 2010 Reno show my Tanzania 2011 auction hunt went for a record $155,000 I am now calling on my organization and its president to come clean and explain its side of the story regarding Mark Sullivan.

My journalism background and career training to tell both sides of every story has prompted me to write this. I just happen to be a safari hunter as well.

I am asking every SCI/AR member who stands with me on that request, to post his name and SCI membership number to this thread. (I can understand that might be uncomfortable for some to do because of your desire to remain anonymous on this board.) But when you're seeking the truth there is nothing to hide.

For the AR members who are not SCI'ers, I'd like you to endorse this thread as well, by simply stating your name and whatever affiliation you'd like. For example:

Steve Shakari
African PH
NRA Member
AR Member
PHASA Member

Once the thread has completed, I will personally see to it that the current SCI President receives this "request", electronically and in paper form.

Happy Hunting. Hunt Hard. Practice Alot. Train Your Body. Will Your Mind. And Don't Be Afraid to Shoot From Afar.

Marc Watts
SCI Life Member

Kim - I fully support Mark's request, hope you do it.

Aaron "Moja Gun Bearer" Neilson
Agent/Outfitter/Guide/Other
SCI #: 20016206

Sounds like a good idea. I agree.

More transparency is good.

Charles R. Butler
Physician
SCI 20160162

Thanks for coordinating this aspect Marc. As you know, I fully support transparency and disclosure by SCI regarding this issue:

SCI should discuss thoroughly and openly with Nitro Express Safaris the exact nature of this action including all substantiated facts gathered by SCI in the course of its investigation. Any remaining concerns, if they exist, should be openly discussed and any necessary remedies should be clearly outlined and defined for Nitro Express Safaris.

As a member of SCI, I am respectfully requesting information regarding the action being taken against Mark Sullivan and Nitro Express Safaris. I hope my request will be honored and that I will receive a reply from SCI that defines the nature of the ongoing investigation by her board or committee, and any substantiated information that might be useful to myself as a member in good standing. I am also requesting that SCI provide the details of this action and investigation directly to Mark Sullivan and Nitro Express Safaris. They, as the focus of this action, deserve no less.


Shawn Christopher Joyce
SCI Member #20069330

Letter Written to Lawrence Rudolph on 1-25-2010/No response received to date.

I've defended SCI for a variety of reasons on a number of ocasions. That said I realize it's a private organization, but this treatment of one of its members without explanation does NOT sit well with me.

Brett Barringer
Physician
SCI#: 20163092
NRA

Marc (SableTrail),

MS asked that I personally and openly thank both you, and all others involved, for initiating endorsement of this SCI open letter thread requesting members and non-members to sign-on.

He would additionally like to thank each and everyone who has stepped forward and posted their support of this thread and the soon to be ensuing letter to SCI.

This coupled with their personal letter writing may stimulate SCI response.

SCI owes Mark Sullivan and it's membership a full explanation for the blatant disregard of established procedure for denying his ability to exhibit at the annual convention.
Dr. Jerry Dollar
SCI id #12006939

As a member of SCI, but more significantly a participant in the Accurate Reloading community, I am honored by Marc Watts confidence in me to write on behalf of those that stand opposed to the unexplained sanctions by SCI imposed upon Mark Sullivan. The fact that respected members such as Aaron, Charles, Shawn, Brett, Edward, Rich, Jerry, and others have endorsed his recommendation humbles me.

I know full well that there are many among us that have serious issues with Mark Sullivan's approach to hunting. He is a bigger-than-life figure in our community, with both fierce detractors and admirers. Anyone familiar with the history of AR knows that Mark has generated inordinate debate in literally dozens of posts going back several years.

But something interesting has occurred, something that is very telling about our disparate band of hunters: Like him or not, virtually everyone has coalesced around the notion that SCI's treatment of Mark is inexplicable, unfair, and unacceptable. Yes, SCI is a private organization, but it relies upon its membership to vote in its leaders and to financially support its various programs. And we are its membership.

As dues paying members, SCI owes us an explanation for its behavior in whatever actions it takes. And its actions against Mark Sullivan violate the principles of fairness and due process many of us have fought, literally and figuratively, to uphold and protect. It may be that there are facts we are unaware of that justify SCI's decision to exclude Mark from its annual conference. We don't know. But should such facts exist, Mark Sullivan and SCI's membership deserve to know what they are - and Mark Sullivan deserves an opportunity to address such facts and charges in an open, fair, and democratic forum in accordance with the rules of procedure established in SCI's by-laws.

Honestly, I don't know that I am the right person to carry this message; Moja or any of the rest of you with truly distinguished histories and accomplishments are undoubtedly more suited to what may be a quixotic pursuit. But, inasmuch as I have been asked to do so, and feeling as I do that my past contributions to AR and our community have been anemic at best, I will gladly take on this responsibility.

Mind you, what we will be doing is not for Mark Sullivan's benefit per se, but rather for the benefit and future protection of all of us who have supported the mission and goals of Safari Club International. They tell us it is our club; let's act accordingly and make clear our expectations of its leaders.

Moja, with your concurrence and that of Aaron and others who may wish to weigh in, what I recommend doing is my drafting a letter to the SCI leadership that I will post here in a few days for review. For those that concur with its message, I will provide my email address and ask that you provide me with your name and membership details (or if not an SCI member, your affiliations and other pertinent information) such that I can append them to the letter and send by FedEx to SCI HQ and its Board of Directors.

Would that be agreeable? Any suggestions?

quote:

Originally posted by KPete:

Mind you, what we will be doing is not for Mark Sullivan's benefit per se, but rather for the benefit and future protection of all of us who have supported the mission and goals of Safari Club International. They tell us it is our club; let's act accordingly and make clear our expectations of its leaders.

Probably the most important message in this whole thing. This could potentially be anyone of us, we would hope and expect for better.

well said.

Rich
DRSS

Scott Terry
SCI # 20071573
Jackson, WY

I'm in, but we will need many more to break the stranglehold.
Cal Pappas
# 12028984
Hell, we all may be kicked out for questioning the powers that be.

Kim,

For me, your message strikes at the very core of this issue and the center of my concern. As a member of SCI, I am proud to associate myself with so many of the organizations achievements. While at the same time this action and its apparent lack of substance, visible due process, or transparency is unwelcome and insupportable.

As you so eloquently point out, this issue flies in the face of what I believe is central to the principles of this organization in which I call myself a member. The opportunity to address accusations, if they exist, and to have the opportunity to respond to them and know from where they come is central to disciplinary fairness. The ensuing discipline should then be commensurate to the offense.

Mark has been a friend to me. I have never withheld that information. With that being said, it is not the sole reason or the catalyst for my action.

I would not want to be faced with an action that had the potential to impact my path in a negative way without an opportunity to be heard by those holding the power to make disciplinary decisions. That process should also provide the readily accessible pathway to appeal should I believe the action was unjust or unsupported by evidence.

Thanks for the opportunity to voice my concerns and to support your role in crafting the message to be heard as a collective voice.

Kim: Sounds like a plan. Gimme a call at the office on Monday. 312 226 4047. I got baseball with Jr. the rest of the weekend.

Cheers

Don't mean to hi-jack a thread. But what puzzles me about the Sullivan controversy is the allegations that have been posted here over time, that past (present?) SCI executives/board members have themselves engaged in unethical hunting practices, but have never been called out by name in any AR post that I recall.

Were these allegations just hearsay, or does anyone have factual information as to name, date and place or said practices?

I, too, am a life member of SCI. I have a number of PH friends who have commented on arrogance and boorishness but have never cited any unethical hunting practices by the above. But these PHs are but a small fraction of the PH population, so would not be a representative sample.

Just seeking clarity.

Fair play, professionalism and accountability of leadership are very dear to my heart. I wish you all the best in this endeavor. Go get 'em!

Ashok Rajasingh
From New Zealand via India
Not a SCI member
Member of New Zealand Deer Stalkers Association
Hunted for many years in India with Big & Small game license
One guided hunt in Canada
One hunt with friends in the US
Many hunts in New Zealand

Jorge J Rojo
SCI# 19050453

Convicted without charges? I thought this was a democratic society? Sounds ominous and very unprofessional to be sure.
Didn't we fight a war over unfair representation?

Mark I am in your corner 200%.

Michael Podwika
SCI Lehigh Valley Chapter member
4 safaris
DSC member
retired educator 35 years

I support Mark. Regardless of the right of a private club or not to kick out a member. Having accepted Mark for so many years then ejecting him in such an unprofessional manner puts the SCI in a very poor light.

I have many friends that are hard core conservationist and hunters. Many will not join SCI due to the perception of a better than thou culture and a rich guy image that tends to be associated with it. I have witnessed both the common man and the rich guy in SCI. I am still a member.

Will Barks
United States Marine
Life NRA member
Phoenix SCI member
Arizona Elk Society Member
Arizona Bow Hunters Member
Master Class NRA High Power Rifle shooter.


Life long hunter… One Hunt in Namibia in 2008, Second Africa hunt in 30 days, Three hunts in Alaska, Been Hunting in the lower since I was 8 years old.

SCI was just playing "catchup"! DSC booted him for video content eight years ago.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
SCI was just playing "catchup"! DSC booted him for video content eight years ago.

Rich
DRSS

That is yesterday's news and common knowledge Rich. Perhaps you just were not made aware when that occurred eight years ago. I am not a member of DSC but if I were and I was not pleased with their disciplinary process, I as a member would speak out.

My question thru all of this is If SCI gives an explanation of their action what ever it may be will any here accept it, or is this just another item to rag on SCI about. If this is the case I damn well will change my support. I am only supporting the request for openess not for MS.

Please feel free to include me in the letter to SCI requesting clarification the MS issue.

Martin Kresinske
SCI # 20184102

Regards.

Please include me in your request for full disclosure from SCI on the facts on Mark Sullivan and his expulsion from the show. This is not support or condemnation for Mark or of SCI. I believe Marks code of ethics are his, not ours. I believe SCI is the most effective organization for protecting hunting rights we have.

Thomas Van Diepen
SCI Life #12001200
Hunter
NRA life

Thank you everybody for your endorsement so far. If I can get about fifteen more I'll feel appropriately armed at presenting this to SCI.
If not I'll go to the table with whatever I have on the thread, along with Kim's letter.

You can include me too.

Darin Nelson
SCI Life Member 12006681

Mark, you can inlcude me too, though I'm not an SCI member at this time. However, I've been an SCI member at various times that total probably 15 years or more.

For the record, I am not a fan of Mr. Sullivan, nor would I likely ever hunt with him, but I am troubled at how he's been dealt with by SCI.

Dan Sozzi
Past SCI member
Past board member-Sacramento Safari Club, SCI

DLS,

are you equally incensed that DSC did the same thing eight years ago?

just curious

Rich

Rich git outta here. You're messin' up my thread man.

Just talked (email) with one of the SCI VPs he said the information shared with him by the convention committe justified (in his eyes) the expulsion of MS. I have know this man for more than a few years and I respect his opinion. This is good enough for me. I am sure it is not for others.

Marc:

I am in as well.

William Larry Shores
Life member for god knows how long
19061863

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Just talked (email) with one of the SCI VPs he said the information shared with him by the convention committe justified (in his eyes) the expulsion of MS. I have know this man for more than a few years and I respect his opinion. This is good enough for me. I am sure it is not for others.

Maybe the justification is adequate, I don't know! But, until they give the reasons why, none of us can actually judge for ourselves, can we??

It just seems to be under-handed, when other cases of expulsion have never been handled in the same manner. Where's the transparency?

Bob Cunnigham
SCI Life Member #20004876

MARC,
Add me to the list. If SCI wants other hunters and outfitters to live by their rules, SCI should also do the same.

White North
SCI # 20155471

Another wind mill. Of about 38,000 members of AR 19 support this campaign. Come on.

I'M IN.

GORDON BLANCHARD
ORTHPEDIC TECHNOLOGIST

AR MEMBER
SCI LIFE MEMBER
NRA LIFE MEMBER

PM sent to both Marc and Kim.

Will J. Parks, III
#12025934

I too am a life member of SCI and will have to have a MUCH better reason than supporting MS to rag on them.

He does too many of the things we are all accused of doing by the anti hunters.

Any excuse for removing a bad apple is a good one IMO. BTW I've never met even one of the thousands of hunters who went to Africa because of exposure to MS videos.

Gents:
I just renewed my SCI membership today. On the card asking for an upgrade to life membership I wrote that I would not consider additional money until Mark has his day in court. It can happen to any of us. I fully support SCI but find it uncomfortable regarding the "coverup". I understand Mark will agree not to show his videos. It goes beyond the videos. Also, it had nothing to do with rumors of gut shooting, etc... That would have been easy for SCI to take a stand on. From what I understand (but not substantiated) wealthy hunters and writer(s) put pressure on SCI to oust him. I think it will come around if the public pressure builds. After all, even with all the jabs on AR between each other, we are all in this together. I mean to those of you who do not like Mark, I'm sure you will agree he would better to share a camp with him than Janet Reno.
Cheers, all.
Cal