Just curious, there have now been at least half a dozen posts from folks that frequent this forum that have personally been to Zim for hunts in the last sixty days. The reports are of great hunts with no issues. In fact, most are reporting that the hunting and situation in the field was better this year than last year. What I have not seen is any post on those threads from any of the folks that were vociferously opining with doom and gloom predictions before those hunts. Maybe they are all hunting in Zim at the moment.

Mike, you know they're waiting for the other shoe to drop...they're getting old but they're waiting.

I couldn't resist.

Yes now that Morgan Tsvangirai's wife has been brutally murdered and found chopped into little pieces and Morgan has requested political asylum in the Netherlands. Everything is just peachy!

Enjoy your hunt.

There you are. Of course that stuff is sincerely terrible but what does that have to do with the hunt camps? No one is saying that Zim is presenting the world standard...but the hunts are going fine.

My husband and I just returned Monday from Zim. Hunted 3 areas and were there from the 6th till the 29th. Drove through from Chewore S. to Save and the road blocks were no problem. Never had them search, ask me anything or want to look at my firearm. My husband did the same 3 days later and nothing then either. During the 2nd "Election" we would not have known anything was going on if we didn't already know about it.
The airport was no problem in Harare.
We talked to several other hunters and they had had no problems either anywhere.
I am not going to say in the future that there won't be any but if things are like what I just left I would go back in a heartbeat! I stayed at three camps and several days by myself at two and felt perfectly safe. All the Zims I met were wonderful to me.
I was expecting bad things when I flew over and debated hard. I am sure glad that the hunting bug won out.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Just curious, there have now been at least half a dozen posts from folks that frequent this forum that have personally been to Zim for hunts in the last sixty days. The reports are of great hunts with no issues. In fact, most are reporting that the hunting and situation in the field was better this year than last year. What I have not seen is any post on those threads from any of the folks that were vociferously opining with doom and gloom predictions before those hunts. Maybe they are all hunting in Zim at the moment.

Is the one below one of the positive reports?

quote:

Zimbabwe: War Vets Invade Game Farm


SW Radio Africa (London)

3 July 2008
Posted to the web 3 July 2008

Tererai Karimakwenda


A gang of about 16 so-called war vets descended on Imire Safari Ranch in Wedza on Wednesday night and ordered owner John Travers to vacate the property by Thursday morning.

Travers and his wife Judy were threatened with death if they refused to comply. Johnny Rodrigues, chairman of the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force, said the Travers' are still on their property and are trying to negotiate with the Minister of Tourism Francis Nhema, to save the ranch.


Travers had been warned and threatened a few days earlier on Sunday, when a group of war vets came to the ranch and ordered him to shoot 3 impala for them to eat. At first he refused but he later shot the impala after the gang became "extremely aggressive" and threatened to burn down his property. As they left with the impala, the gang told Travers that Imire was at the top of their list and they were going to take it. He reported the incident to the police on Monday who said they would initiate investigations. But police have traditionally been very slow to act on any issue regarded as 'political.'

An army general is known to be behind the attempts to take over Imire, despite the fact that National Parks gave the ranch special status as a black rhino breeding area, with government funding this project. Rodrigues said he is very concerned that if the ranch is taken over, all the animals will be killed. Referring to the war vets, he said: "Their history tells us they would kill everything. We lost 3 rhino in Chivero National Parks recently. They killed and dehorned them."

Rodrigues talked about another incident that took place in October last year on Imire, where 3 black rhinos were shot dead by members of the Zimbabwe Army, armed with AK-47 rifles and dressed in camouflage. Each rhino had a guard, but they were assaulted and tied up during the attack. The killings were described as a "senseless slaughter" because all the rhino had been dehorned.

Black rhino are a critically endangered species on the verge of extinction, and the lawlessness that prevails in Zimbabwe is yet another threat to the small population that still exists.



Kathi

kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552

I couldn't resist.

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
There you are. Of course that stuff is sincerely terrible but what does that have to do with the hunt camps? No one is saying that Zim is presenting the world standard...but the hunts are going fine.

Have you hunted Zim yet this year?
I have and my impression was that it is a powder keg getting ready to blow the tension is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
Of course that was before ZANUPF ran the competition out of town. I am guessing that it's back to business as usual now. Murder, torture, and oppression.

Of course this stuff is sincerely terrible but if doesn't screw up your hunt who cares right?
It just frustrates the hell out of me that nobody is doing anything to wipe this blight form the earth.

Maybe we should all boycott Zim for several years and put the financial nail in this scum bags coffin.

Surestrike,
Where are you hunting in Africa this year or next?

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Have you hunted Zim yet this year?
I have and my impression was that it is a powder keg getting ready to blow the tension is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
Of course that was before ZANUPF ran the competition out of town. I am guessing that it's back to business as usual now. Murder, torture, and oppression.

Maybe we should all boycott Zim for several years and put the financial nail in this scum bags coffin.

Where did you hunt because the comment about the tension being so thick you can cut it with a knife, a powder keg ready to blow is -- in my humble opinion and experience -- utter bullshit. We spent several days in Harare, drove through downtown, went shopping, went out to eat, drove through a number of the small towns, stopped at several road side vendors, and on and on and we experienced none of that. Zip, nada. The folks all wanted the election to be over, and the folks would all love to see Mugabe gone, but tension, a powder a keg, gee I would like to know where you were.

With regard to your last comment, that is just what everyone needs over there. Boycott the hunting industry and drive all of them out of business, make it impossible for the camp staffs to feed their families, the trackers to send their kids to school, allow poaching to take over the safari areas, yea that would teach Mugabe a lesson.

I have tremendous respect, admiration and adoration for the people of Zim. Everyone I have ever met there has been a decent, caring and pleasant person. No one, no one, wishes better for them than me. But ruining their lives in the absurd hope that that will run Mugabe off is just plain ridiculous.

Originally posted by surestrike:

"I got back form Zim yesterday.

I had a crappy hunt. The conditions in the bush right now SUCK! I was hunting Dande North. Make no mistake about it the bush is to thick at the moment for decent hunting.

The guy going out before me was major pissed he didn't get anything and on my way out I shared a charter with two folks who were leaving after 4 days of a 14 day hunt because the hunting conditions were so poor.

We also had a screw up on a buff and shot the wrong one. I am not to happy about it but that is the way it goes sometimes."



I guess that could affect a fellow's perspective . . .

I seem to recall (without going back to look it up) that you were saying the same thing last year. Is that correct? If it wasn't you, it was someone just like you. The rhetoric is always the same.

No, I haven't hunted this year but I was there last year when you and whoever else was saying the same kind of stuff. I am very close to those who live and work there and that's where I get my info, as well as the reports found here.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Surestrike,
Where are you hunting in Africa this year or next?

Rusty I hunted the Dande in May.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Originally posted by surestrike:

"I got back form Zim yesterday.

I had a crappy hunt. The conditions in the bush right now SUCK! I was hunting Dande North. Make no mistake about it the bush is to thick at the moment for decent hunting.

The guy going out before me was major pissed he didn't get anything and on my way out I shared a charter with two folks who were leaving after 4 days of a 14 day hunt because the hunting conditions were so poor.

We also had a screw up on a buff and shot the wrong one. I am not to happy about it but that is the way it goes sometimes."



I guess that could affect a fellow's perspective . . .

MJ

If you are going to go through the trouble of quoting me a quote in it's entirety would be nice you forgot to add this part. I guess it must have just slipped your mind.


Posted one post down form the original by me.
".458,

I hunted with Lance Nesbitt. And he hunted his ass off for me I have no complaints about the service I received from my hunter or the camp staff it was all primo.

Between the full moon and the thick bush we simply had our hands tied. It was almost impossible hunting conditions.

We also had a screw up on a buff and shot the wrong one. I am not to happy about it but that is the way it goes sometimes.

Famous last words of a trophy fee gone bad, "Don't shoot again...you hit him hard on that first one!""

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
I seem to recall (without going back to look it up) that you were saying the same thing last year. Is that correct? If it wasn't you, it was someone just like you. The rhetoric is always the same.

No, I haven't hunted this year but I was there last year when you and whoever else was saying the same kind of stuff. I am very close to those who live and work there and that's where I get my info, as well as the reports found here.

Yukon,

No it wasn't me I wasn't able to hunt last year, in 6 African hunts I've never made a hunt report on AR. I am sorry to inform you that you are mistaken.
This is the first "bad" hunting experience I've ever had on an African hunt.
If you are interested in reading my hunt reports they are over on www.Thehighroad.org. Look under the call sign H&Hhunter.

Whether you like me or not doesn't matter Yukon the fact of the matter is that I don't make stuff up. I call it the way I see it. You are welcome to take it or leave it.

Back in May when I was in Zim the political tension was high. The frigin UN was scoping out potential refugee camp locations in the bordering countries.
Whether you guys choose to see it or not Zim is/was in a precarious political situation.

I have no idea what it is like at the moment I reported it as I saw it. As the state department saw it and as the UN was seeing it at the time.If that puts your little panties in a wad it's your own problem.

Why did you go if you felt that the situation was about to blow? Bad information before you left? Too late to get your deposit back? Thought it would all be okay, were hoping for the best and turned out to be way wrong? Surely the outfit you were hunting with must have told you that tensions were at the razor's edge? Just curious how you could have so misread the situation only to arrive and discover that you were in the middle of a powder keg about to blow. Anyone can misread a situation, but to be off base that far, what happened?

Whats the matter Mike? You are not able to respond to my previous post so you now have to try and shift your story?
To answer your question however, yes I feel that the situation was down played by the outfitter to get me to do the hunt and not back out.
I didn't find out about the UN and their preparation for a possible blow up in Zim until after the hunt.

I am glad that you had a good hunt. I am glad that you didn't see any of the BS going on. But to say that there are no problems in Zim, zip, nada is a bit optimistic isn't it?

I realize the many of the PH's on this forum have seen what things look like when they go bad. Very few, almost none, of the potential client pool ever has or ever will.

For several years, I was treated to an unending panoply of death and destruction in various African countries. I have spent a considerable amount of time in various African war zones and have had friends almost killed, been repeatedly shot at, had one of our airplanes and crew mined by those we thought were our friends, recovered human remains from shot-down Hercs in Angola, and I know from first hand experience just how bad things can get when things get bad.

Surestrike, as do I, has quite a bit of African experience that doesn't involve luxury hunting camps, and is therefore somewhat qualified to judge potential trouble spots.

Many sneer at his statements, but I can tell you this: you're not going to get you finger on the pulse of a country by spending ten odd days in the bush, hunting wild game. If you have your antenna up, you can often smell shit on the wind.

I feel for the operators caught up helplessly in the Zim troubles, but not so much that I would hunt there. I just had an opportunity to book a lengthy, multi-party hunt wherever I chose. We discounted Zim automatically, because the guy I was booking for has had his fill of violence and civil war in other locations and he knows first hand how quickly things can deteriorate in a third world country, as he lives in one with a long and still-current history of extensive random violence.

I had three locations to choose from and chose to book Masailand because of the stability there.

We will not hunt Zim and some may ridicule us for that, but my experiences in African civil wars has taught me to stay as far away from potential African trouble spots as I can. This is not meant to offend anyone, or hold anyone up to any sort of riducule, but I can get all the danger I want on my four or five annual visits to El Salvador and Guatemela. We will have women along, and I think the risk is too great.

Maybe when and if things calm down, we'll go back to Zim. Not now.

Imo, Zim has a bit of a question mark over it as a hunting destination for this year but then again an Australian chap was shot and killed buy a AK47 wealding bandit in Tanz this week.
Charter flights into any African countrys Safari areas is a good idea.

Here is the point I set out to make with this thread. So far, and I am sure I am missing some folks, the following members of this Forum have hunted in Zim in the last several months and reported good hunts with no safety or security issues:

BigB
cavu67
AdrianParham
LRH270
talentrc
MJines
dirklawyer
Mario
Brett
Norbert

In fairness, we have at least one Forum member that reports that he found the situation tense and potentially on the brink.

In contrast, we have a number of other Forum members that opine vociferously -- without having been there, or necessarily even being in contact with folks there on a regular basis -- about why Zim is a place that from a safety and security perspective they feel anyone who would go there is not playing with a full deck. It just strikes me the the reality does not match the rhetoric.

What I am not suggesting is that nothing bad will or can happen in Zim. Reality is that none of us knows the answer to that question. What I am suggesting is that a lot of the "noise" about the situation in Zim is just that, "noise". That reality is that vast majority of folks are going, not having problems or experiencing safety concerns and enjoying themselves on great safaris.

So far so good in Zim. That does not mean things cannot turn on a dime.

With all due respect to the posters here, I believe hunters have every right to be concerned and to express their reservations regarding the situation in Zim today. While a lot of credence is placed on people who have "been there", you do not have to be present to get an idea that the situation is one that needs to be fully explored before one commits to go there.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have never been to Zim. But I have also never partaken of cyanide to know that it is probably something I should not ingest. I have never been bitten by a rattlesnake to know that it is a reptile to be avoided.

Many of us have seen first hand what a low intensity conflict is like. And the signs of one are pretty consistent with the signs of another. What is calm and serene at one moment can turn into total chaos in the next.

People have every right to express their reservations and concerns, and a chest thumping challenge questioning their concerns is a little over the top. The situation in Zim has indeed deteriorated in just the last year - hyper inflation, the introduction of North Korean trained Angolan troops, the presence of Chinese military "advisors" in uniform, the recall of war vets to service, the election chaos and the ensuing murders and beatings, the resumption of farm invasions on the remaining 400 or so farms, the Chinese arms shipment that was turned away from South Africa and the escalation of concern within the international community coupled with Mugabe's defiant "go hang" response are all cause for concern.

Another interesting thing I have noticed is the opportunities for more "ration hunts" becoming available as opportunities this year. It makes one wonder just who is in need of the rations these hunts provide.

The fact that all has been calm so far in Zim this year is certainly no guarantee that all is clear for those to follow. In a game of musical chairs, everyone is in the game until the music stops.

Anyone traveling to Zim bother to check with their life insurance company? These people are in the business of assessing risk. I checked yesterday, and received an interesting response.

My insurer is rather unique in that it is affiliated with the military and thus does not consider a war death as the basis for exclusion. One of the reasons it was formed was that military officers were finding it impossible to obtain life insurance based on their military status.

Here is what my company had to say about travel to Zim:

quote:

Major Manion,

Thank you for your inquiry. If you were applying for a new policy, coverage would be declined based upon your travel plans to Zimbabwe.

If you have an existing policy, they would likewise decline payment if you were within the first 2 years of your policy. Again, this is a company that takes a lot more risk on than others in order to accommodate those in the military.

It is entirely possible, if not likely, that others coverage would be declined if a mishap occurred in Zim. Many of us rely on that coverage for support for our families in the event of our demise, and some of our employers cover us under key man policies to allow them to weather a transition in the event of our untimely departure. Anyone with concerns in this area should take a look at their insurance contingency. Saving some money on a hunt may not be worth it in the bigger picture.

I was not going to respond to this thread, but the implication that people who are concerned about the situation in Zim are lacking in backbone bothered me a great deal. Those that have had good hunts this year are to be congratulated. But the past is no guarantee of the future, particularly in a place like Zim.

Past success is no guarantee of future performance. But that applies to all things in life, not just hunting in Zim. I have driven safely to work for 26 years, but Monday could be something altogether different. The point is that you make informed judgments after weighing the relative risk and reward. No one is suggesting that folks that strike that balance in favor of the risks are timid or meek or that those that strike the balance in favor of the reward are bold and courageous. What I am suggesting is that a lot of relatively uninformed fear mongering goes on that really is not helpful to folks seeking to make the informed risk/reward decision I alluded to above. What I am also saying is that it would nice if those that want to land on the side of the risks outweighing the rewards would at least acknowledge that perhaps -- to this point -- things have not turned out to be as bleak as they might have suggested.

I'll feel safer in Zim than here with some of you guys.

Mike,

However when I post the differing opinion you guys circle like a pack of rabid hyenas and try the personal attack bit.
Mr. Yukon accuses me of writing negative reports about Zim from last year. Untrue, in fact complete fallacy. He is just pissed off that I don't kiss his buddy Ray's ass on every possible occasion like some here do.

Rusty demands to know where I am planing to hunt this year or next even though I clearly stated that I've already hunted Zim this year.
You sir take a portion of a post and quote it out of context trying to prove your point.

Instead of having an intelligent conversation about Zim with point and counter point. If somebody doesn't tow the line on your initial statement you feel the need to try and destroy them. Of course this pompous arrogant attitude is the modus operandi for many of the folks who post on this site and it is why you will never read one of my hunt reports here.

Your whole analogy about where's Waldo is arrogant at best, sophomoric at worst and macho to the point arrogance. You'll find Waldo in Zim when runs a red hot Ak-47 up your ass. I hope it doesn't happen but Zim whether you want to see it or not is a tinder box just waiting for a spark.

The world political community sees it. 100's of hunters who don't necessarily post on AR who have canceled their hunts in Zim see it. Yes Virginia their have been hundreds of hunt cancellations in Zim this year. All of the warning signs are there just because nothing happened while you were their doesn't mean that you are smarter than the average bear. It simply means that nothing happened while you were there.

I've done some contract work for the UN and the WHO and the State Department. I've seen places go from a serene yet uneasy peace to a full blown slaughter fest in a matter of hours. You don't want to be there when it happens.

I agree with both sides of this little discussion, and both have very valid points! However, each person must set the die for his own round, and make sure it fits what he wants to place it in. Still there are those who venture into the gettos of the big cities of the USA, and other countries, because there is intertainment there they wish to partake of. If they get mugged they say "Man I shouldn't have gone down there", but if they don't, and the wheels are still on their car when they get back to it, they say "It ain't so bad down there, and we had a great time!"

Many choose to take a risk with what they think is an informed study of the place they want to go, while some of them don't realize how close they came without even knowing it.

As Mike says " Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool!"

That statement could very well apply to either side of this discussion! Simply because folks choose not to go into a potentual war zone for any reason, or choose to go there with "it'll be OK" attitude, doesn't make either one of them stupid, right, or wrong!

......... Time will tell!

Who is Ray? If you think I'm upset at you, you're mistaken. In fact, I can go for weeks without thinking about you.

Go back and read what I said...if it wasn't you it was the same kind of talk.

Hunt where you like but you can't come on here and tell us the camps are not safe and guys are not having the hunts of their lives. I've told you before that every time someone bad mouths Zim, there will be a bunch of guys that get on here to give another perspective.

If you want to talk about hunt cancellations...you'll need to look to Tanz.

Thanks Jim for the insurance comments.

I am in East Africa right now, and the reports I see every day tell me that I wouldn't risk my life in Zimbabwe.

It's a matter of what happens with Mugabe? Mugabe won't give power, that's a fact we can all agree on. I think it's a matter of what he does if the UN or Nato troops are sent in.

I wouldn't risk it, but many will and they should be fine.

Yukon,

You are simply being a sensitive little flower. I did not bad mouth the hunting in Zimbabwe. I stated my opinion on the political situation at moment.To discount the possibilities of severe violence is simply naive. I stand by that. In fact there has been tons of severe violence in ZIm on the level with Kenya if not greater we simply don't know as the major difference being there is no press in Zim to report it. Mugabe has made sure of that.
As far as the hunts and the camps I also stated my opinion on that, being my third time hunting the valley. They were great as was to be expected.

I just recieved an email from my outfitter concerning the hunting conditions and political situation in Zim. It says there is no sign of violence observed by any of the staff anywhere in Zim and if it had not been for the CNN and BBC broadcasts they would not have known that any has taken place anywhere.Hunting has been excellent so far despite the high growth.If there is any remote chance of violence anywhere, we will be contacted.

Surestrike,

Is it really that hard to concede that -- at least to this point -- the fear and trembling has been unjustified? The facts really sort of speak for themselves. Tomorrow may be a different story but the fact is that as of today, there has been a lot of needless hand wringing. I really feel sorry for those that had hunts in April, May and June that canceled, some of whom undoubtedly lost their deposits on hunts they may have saved for for years. But I do not feel as sorry as those that stirred the panic pot should feel.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
As far as the hunts and the camps I also stated my opinion on that, being my third time hunting the valley. They were great as was to be expected.

Thanks for making my point as well.

So far this week, here in Las Vegas we've had one plane crash, 4 homicides, and a home invasion less than a mile from here.

Bad shit happens everywhere. Personally, I'd rather be in a safari camp in Zimbabwe.....

Les,

I like The Plan.

If mayhem breaks out where is it most likely to start? What would be your plan to get out?

I will say it one more time then you boys can continue with your pedantries. All of the elements are in place, all it will take is the wrong action at the right time. Whether those things will come together and start a shit storm or not, it could happen at any time. With Morgan being out of the picture the odds of this happening are getting slimmer all the time.
It is a calculated risk. My decision was to go I wouldn't however go again knowing what I know now. Until Mugabe is dead and gone there will always be trouble in Zim.

This isn't about you and me or who's right it's about what the personal risks in hunting zim this year. Whether people are having great hunts at the moment or not has nothing to do with the possibility of a civil unrest in Zim. The two aren't related.

Mike, Yukon you have NO IDEA not a clue as to what may or may not be happening behind the scenes in Zim. Just like the rest of us. Just like the UN they don't have a handle on it either but they are covering their bases by locating probable refugee camps just in case. That should be huge clue that all is not well. If nothing happens then you look like a pretty smart guy AKA you got lucky. If the shit hits the fan and a bunch of tourist hunters get killed some of whom went based on your advice, well you won't be looking so cool then.

My personal advice is that until I have a better handle on the situation I'd recommend staying out. No sweat off my brow either way if you want to take it or leave it but this is my recommendation at the time.

Mike when you were their how busy was the airport in Harare? It was a ghost town when I was there. IN fact many of the normally scheduled flights have been canceled into and out of HRE. There might well be a few hunters still visiting Zim but the rest of the tourist industry has dried up almost completely. All of the signs are there guys whether you choose to read them or not is your business.

WOW! Surestrike! I'd like to apologize for asking you that question. I just wanted to know where you were going to hunt if it wasn't Zim?

Here's a thought for the day!

on December 6th 1941 Pearl Harbor was a paradise! December 8th it was a hell hole with effects of the December 7th . The people who were left still woundering,what happened and why! 9th of september people were going about their daily chores. On the 9/11 what happened?
The fact is there were zero signs that either of those things were about to happen. One cannot say that of Zimbabwe. The fact that the signs are in place, is something nobody can deny, because what happened yesterday, is no indication of what will happen today. Yesterday is history, but tomorrow is a mystery.
I'm very glad that those who went to Zim and had good safaris, came home unscathed, but to simply say to have concern is dumb,based on their luck of the draw, is simply beyond belief, and IMO iresponcable to tell others not to worry about anything and just go there.

The bargains there are tempting, and though I really can't afford to take advantage of them now, I wouldn't anyway, because of the political unrest there. That, however is my choice, and not incumbant on anyone else to forego it! However, to say Surestrike is all wet because he is warning people to at least think, is , again, beyond belief!

My question is why do some people here find it OK to get nasty with those who don't share their opinion lock step. Many of the things said on this thread, would never have been uttered if the discussion had been face to face, I'd bet!

Heres a good idea, if you want to go to Zimbabwe, GO! If you think it isn't safe don't. However is asked at least let the questioner know there are two trains of thought on the subject, and let them decide from an informed base!

.....................BYE

I just read your hunt report Surestrike:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=367408

It is obvious that you were disappointed by the one-horned buffalo, but I must tell you that I think you got it wrong. That IS a special trophy, and frankly just about the only cape buffalo I would shoot in the future. Maybe that was the one you were supposed to shoot.

I hope you don't mind me posting the link here:




I like the pictures of the children too.

Regards,

Bill

Mac,

Is it any less irresponsible to express serious concerns and reservations about Zim without having been or talked to anyone that is there, to tell others that it would foolhardy to consider going under the present conditions, to speculate on the impending eruption of the country into widespread violence, to draw thinly veiled parallels to Rwanda, and on and on? Why is it irresponsible to suggest that despite the present political situation in Zim folks are going and not having problems and enjoying themselves? Candidly, I think it is far more irresponsible for folks to speculate and raise the specter of disaster when they have not been or been in daily or weekly contact with those that are there, than it is for the folks who have been to report factually on what they experienced. Look back over the posts on many of these threads by the "Waldo's" I was referring to -- the threads are replete with commentary from folks that have never been to Zim and have never spoken to anyone in Zim. To suggest that that commentary is in some way more responsible because it expresses reservations and concerns than the commentary from folks that have been to or are in Zim or are in communication with folks in Zim because they are expressing a sense of optimism and conveyed that they had no problems and would return, is strained logic.

Let's go back to the example I gave above. What about the fellow that saved for years to make his first trip to Africa in May 2008. He was excited but a bit nervous making a trip of a lifetime to a place far away from what he was accustom to. As the situation in Zim started to deteriorate he began playing close attention to what the "experts" on forums like this had to say about the situation. The more he read posts by folks saying the place was a tender box, that there was no damn way that they would go, that Zim had all the makings of a Rwanda, that someone going would be doing a disservice to his family by heading into harm's way, . . . , the more nervous he became. Ultimately his sense of anxiety got the better of him and he canceled, losing his deposit and possibly his dream of ever going to Africa. On the other hand, had he gone, like all the folks that have been this year, save one, he would have had a wonderful time.

I do not feel irresponsible in the least for having told people what I was hearing from multiple different folks on the ground, telling them that I had no problems or issues while I was there for 17 days, or telling them that I would go again if given the opportunity. I hope the others that have drawn parallels to Rwanda, have emphatically expressed that under no circumstances would they go when the source of all their information is the dribble the media puts out, who openly talked about the prospect of an impending civil war, etc. feel that they have acted responsibly too. I can only speak to what the situation was and is, I have no clue what the situation will be tomorrow. But I do believe that yesterday does give us insights into tomorrow. Can disaster strike anywhere, anytime? Sure. In the examples you gave it happened in Honolulu and New York City. Could it happen in Zim? It would be nonsensical to say that it could not. I just wish those that have fanned the flames of fear for months now would acknowledge that so far, those fears have failed to pan out and that had folks been listening to them all along there would be a lot of folks in the same situation as the fellow in my example above.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Here's a thought for the day!

on December 6th 1941 Pearl Harbor was a paradise! December 8th it was a hell hole with effects of the December 7th . The people who were left still woundering,what happened and why! 9th of september people were going about their daily chores. On the 9/11 what happened?
The fact is there were zero signs that either of those things were about to happen. One cannot say that of Zimbabwe. The fact that the signs are in place, is something nobody can deny, because what happened yesterday, is no indication of what will happen today. Yesterday is history, but tomorrow is a mystery.
I'm very glad that those who went to Zim and had good safaris, came home unscathed, but to simply say to have concern is dumb,based on their luck of the draw, is simply beyond belief, and IMO iresponcable to tell others not to worry about anything and just go there.

The bargains there are tempting, and though I really can't afford to take advantage of them now, I wouldn't anyway, because of the political unrest there. That, however is my choice, and not incumbant on anyone else to forego it! However, to say Surestrike is all wet because he is warning people to at least think, is , again, beyond belief!

My question is why do some people here find it OK to get nasty with those who don't share their opinion lock step. Many of the things said on this thread, would never have been uttered if the discussion had been face to face, I'd bet!

Heres a good idea, if you want to go to Zimbabwe, GO! If you think it isn't safe don't. However is asked at least let the questioner know there are two trains of thought on the subject, and let them decide from an informed base!

.....................BYE

EXELLENT SUMMATION!