Job well done.

quote:

Originally posted by olguy:
Many thanks Saeed; two thumbs up. I have been VERY suspicious of a few of these posters. Couple of nights ago I almost asked one of them if he was a plant for the antis, but it was late and I just did not have the energy. There is one in particular who is very argumentative; does not answer questions but continues to rant. By his conduct though and his weak presentations he shows his true stripes. I too, would like to know identities so I can avoid/ignore their post- and perhaps take the action proposed by daleW. I think this is another example of the lack of integrity, cowardice and the low dealings of the PETA people and other antis. Thanks to you for this site and all that you do to keep it a proper forum.

The sad part is this really has nothing to do with PETA.

As while looking at all the posts that were made, one would imagine they knew what they were asking.

Some went as far as claiming they are from a different country - and went as far as pretending not to understand some English. While on another post they slip up and post in perfect English.

With that sort of stupidity, no wonder us as gun owners and hunters keep getting into all sort of trouble becuase of their actions.

I see that the subject of "freedom of speech" has been brought up.

Well, with freedom comes responssibility.
And ultimately, this IS a private website, and our rules have to be followed.

We ctually do not ask for much.

All we ask is that members should show civility towards their fellow members.

I visit a number of forums, dealing with different subjects, and I can assure you none of them would allow posters to go to the extent we do.

Sometimes, however, certain individuals do go too far as far as I am concerned. And when that happens, it really leaves me no choice but to put an end to it.

I had a message from one of our long time members on this very subject.

He basically said I would not have had to raise a finger to get rid of those obnoxious characters if we were sitting by a real camfire, HE would be happy to "eject" them.

The Internet has been an extremely beneficial medium for all of us.

At the same time it has allowed those with very small minds and no real life to act in manners they are unable to do so in real life.

I really like AR, and I do enjoy my time here. I have a lot of Web friends here and I have met a lot of AR members in person, liked every one of them, and many have become very close buddies.

AR is like a Play ground, and when ever people get together their must be rules.

If people cannot "play nice", then they do not need to be here.

It is one thing to offer a different experience, or a different opinion, but it should be done in a "nice friendly" manner.

Saeed, I appreciate you for starting and maintaining AR.

I do not think it is too much to require the people here to be friendly.

They do not have to agree, but we should be at least civil, and even better friendly, toward each other.

To generalise on the Freedom offered in Public forums in general.

I use the analogy that WE lock our houses and/or cars to keep honest people out, if a rat s.it SOB wants to ROB or break into our house/car they will do so.

Same with the internet, we set basic rules for honest people, but those whom want to disrupt will do so come hell or high water until they get found out ... only then the owner operator will exercise his judgement and delate ban or whatever.

No one can really complain as we are free to post but the freedom to abuse is in our hands, we whom live by the sword will perish by the sword ..

What a great thing it is to have freedom of choice in this world

Cheers, Peter

Thank you, Saeed, thank you!!! As you can tell, I haven't posted a lot here since becoming a member, but I do read posts almost everyday. It's a way for me to "get away" for a little while. And a great way to learn more for my next trip to Africa. However, these trolls were like a festering infection, changing AR to the point that I actually joined another site!
Thank you for taking the action you did.

There are some who post on here that do it simply to create an uproar. If they can get people riled up and indignaant they smile in glee. And of course we do get indignant and respond to them. That is the worst thing we can do as it just eggs them on. I equate them to teen age vandals that destroy things just to get other peoples goat. It would be best if we just ignored those types of posts.

465H&H

quote:

He basically said I would not have had to raise a finger to get rid of those obnoxious characters if we were sitting by a real camfire, HE would be happy to "eject" them.

Their is lots of truth in that statement, but possibly not from the way a person might think.

Two things that occur when setting around an actual campfire:

1. The actual facial expressions and voice inflections can be seen and heard, so that all present can distinguish if the speaker is being serious or just BS'ing.

2. The speaker does not have the anonimity or safety of setting behind a computer screen running off at the mouth, knowing that no one can lay a hand on them for such behavior.

Humans have a tendency to be much braver when they know that someone is not going to be able to get up, walk around the fire and dot their eye.

And then don't forget to cross their "T", as some of these jerks deserve more than simply dotting their "I".

Bravo Saeed! As a new member just getting started, it was embarassing to have that tag in the middle of all this and possibly drawing suspicion because of it. I will be very proud indeed when I log on someday and see " one of us ".

It seems that you always have evil to contrast with the good

Thanks Saeed!
Most of us are here because of the info and camaraderie. It was getting a little tiresome wading thru the BS. Thanks for mucking out the paddock!

Thanks, Atta Boy, Kudos, and Wonderful Good to Saeed! I've been skipping their posts since I recognized that I wouldn't want to spend any time with them.
Our Mom's teach us to work hard and play well with others, when we didn't we were reminded. Some folks forget that when they grow up, or at least get older.
Saeed, thanks again for providing this site that you share with us. It provides us an opportunity to go on and on about something we love.
I've found when I go on and on about it with my wife and most of our freinds, all I get is a roll of the eyes and a "Nobody really cares."
Thanks
Bfly

quote:

It was getting a little tiresome wading thru the BS.

Oh I wouldn't take my waders off just yet!

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
Oh I wouldn't take my waders off just yet!

Well, forgive my ingenuity (sp?), but can someone tell me (at least via PM) of whom we are talking about ?

I will make it easy. It was the memeber that was ALWAYS making trouble ? YES or NOT ?

L

Thanks for getting rid of the alt's. I find internet boards less fun than they used to be, more confrontational and polical, less about the subject at hand. I almost never visit the 24campfire for that reason.

Lorenzo.

I figured it was CrazyHorse but he's still here. Can't be Pecos, he's long gone. It must be you or I.

Dale,
I don't think we should harrass their children at school - not only because it's not fair but because I doubt they have too many . It's a syndrome and, happily, having kids is not generally part of it.

quote:

Originally posted by daleW:
Saeed,

I request that you release the names and addresses of the infiltrators.

We will organize a large group and stage protests in front of their houses and work places. And if any of them own a small business, we will put them out of business.

We will harass their children at school.

We will tapped into their cell phones( which is totally legal) and harass their family and friends with a bombardment of phones calls all night long.

We will search their garbage and find out personal information and hopefully financial information.


We will annoy their neighbors with chants and candle vigils throughout the night.

We will get the media involved. And expose the frauds that they are.



This is exactly what PETA and other animal rights groups do to us. It is time we do it to them on equal ground. They will think twice in the future and they may never open their mouths again.


What say ye my brothers of AR?



dale

How about we load up in the back of a pick up with a bucket of chicken and ax handles and take care of the problem?

Sounds like fun !!!!

Trophyman

well whoever they were/are, they were possibly a lot more subtle than this lad who posted this on a hunting association website over here.....

Name: : Peter

- E-mail: : peter.gitau@gmail.com

- Your Comments Queries: : Dear Animal hunter,

I was very shocked and sickened to see on "Louis Theroux''s African Hunting Holiday" what a bloody hell of a place South Africa has become for innocent African wildlife.

You are probably a South African of Dutch origin and I am sure you would go to jail in Holland for what you are doing to these animals.

I can understand the end of Apartheid means you have no where to take out your sad inborn blood hungry evil desire to kill and that possibly explains why the poor helpless and beautiful animals are your new apartheid victims.

You should search your soul and find a strain of humanity somewhere there. There will be one if you such hard enough.

It''s only a matter of time before the civilized world stops you. Again

The world is disgusted by your actions.

Peter

Mr Gitau sent myself as well as 35 conservation bodies and tourism authorities the same e-mail
I replied as follows...

Dear Peter

I thank you for your concern.
It is obvious to me that you care about our wildlife as much as I do. However you may have been misled into believing that what you have stated is true.
You see as a conservationist first, I know that without hunting there would not be the Africa you speak of.
The long and short of it is that in Africa anything that wants to stay, simply has to pay.
It has been proven over the centuries that anything with no commercial value will be pillaged due to the fact that no one is there to protect it.

A very good example is Kenya, since they ceased hunting there, the once vibrant landscape has been pillaged by poachers to the extent that some game parks now are no longer an attraction at all. Their elephant and Rhino populations are once more endangered and there is not enough funding to support their growing need for security. A sad state of affairs considering what they once were. Look on the flip side of this coin at South Africa. South Africa has embraced hunting as a viable way to ensure that wild animals and wilderness have a high commercial value. In so doing there are now greater numbers and more diversity here than at the turn of the last century. Ask any of the great conservationists and they will tell you that hunting is an integral part of the conservation process. If you are looking for an outsiders opinion you can even consult the makers of the BBC documentary, “Big Cat Diaries”, one of their presenters is making a documentary in which he states that Hunting may be the only viable tool in truly conserving wild lion populations. Now that packs a lot of punch considering that the BBC is mostly anti consumptive tourism.

Now many people often bring up tourism and particularly “Photographic Tourists” as the alternative to hunting, the truth of the matter however is that most “Tourists” are simply that, people looking to relax in a luxurious lodge. We cater to their needs in great style, just take a look at places like Phinda or Mala-Mala. But for the most part, the rest of Africa outside of the big attractions is just too rough a place for most. You see it takes a special kind of person to put up with biting flies, long days out in the field, damp and humid conditions and not to mention heat. These men and women who pursue their passion for hunting go places others wont and in so doing extend the flow of foreign currency into areas that would otherwise not see a cent. In opposition to your standard lodge there is also a lot more money going directly into the hands of the people this way. Many of the foreign hunters I know bring along with them crates of food, clothing and most importantly first world educational supplies, not something that your average “Tourist” might consider doing.
There is one other major advantage to the hunting Tourist and that is that they do very little damage to the environment. For the money that 1 hunter brings in to the country it would take an average of 12 conventional tourist. That means twelve times the air traffic, twelve times the vehicles, twelve times the amount of waste and hence twelve times the impact on the surrounding environment.

In the grand scheme of things I like to weigh them up by their end result, in this case I believe that only hunting will allow us to preserve our wild places, and hence I as a proud South African, being white and with a mixed background of English, Dutch, French, German and Norwegian; am also a proud conservationist and a proud hunter.

I enjoy a sport, which I have made into a profession and which I know is making a difference in Africa. How many people you know can actually say that they can measure the difference they have made, or count the animals that they actively conserve. I know I can.

Anyway Peter, I hope you have a great day and that perhaps you will take me up on an offer to come to Africa and explore some of the wild places I call home. I dare say you would leave here with a changed perception and a new goal to pursue through your dedication to whichever cause you support.

Kind regards
Ian Blakeway

Ian Blakeway
African Bush Safaris
+27 83 414 2446
mail@africanbushsafari.com
www.africanbushsafari.com

I have so far had no response which I would guess suggests that perhaps Peter had reason to rethink or at least pause in his assult on hunting.

Anyway, we all know that these people want us to lash out at them, so each time we dont we come possibly a little closer to showing our true worth in the field of conservation.
Good hunting
Ian

Well said, Ian. Unfortunately it most likely will have no impact whatsoever on the writer. It is my experience that rational explanations of the facts are of no importance to those who are ruled by non-sensical emotions.

+1!

Lion Hunter

That which you have stated is an even sadder reality, not only for hunting but for the world in general. The mind of the zealot is far more dangerous than any weapon.
But as hunters we must recognize the strength of the enemy and be prepared to fight for what is ours with as much passion. I come from a largely complacent population. I forget who wrote it, but there is a lot of truth in this, " If you ignore your rights, they disappear".
It is up to us to ensure that this is not the case here.
Good hunting
Ian

Ian,

That was fantastic. I've saved it in case a situation arises for me to defend our sport. I'll full credit to you. Wonderful stuff.

THX

Mark

Ian,

what mark said. I know I haven't read any better on the rebuttal to anti's.

well done.

dan

Ian,

What Mark and Dan said!!!!

I hope you don't mind but I have saved that also.

Thanks Guys
If my two cents can make a difference then please feel free to use it all you like.
One thing I was happy about was that I got similar comments from some of the nature conservation and dept. of tourism bunch too. They get a lot of this sort of stuff and were happy to have if nothing else then a standard reply to work from.

That reply was actually a summation of an unfinished article I have written, titled, "Hunting, Africa's greatest conservation tool". I am yet to finish it but, perhaps now is a good time.
Good hunting
Ian

quote:

Lorenzo.

I figured it was CrazyHorse but he's still here. Can't be Pecos, he's long gone. It must be you or I.

No Sir It Isn't Me.

I am an opinionated Son Of A Bitch, self made, my Mother was a really good person.

Many people do not like my opinions, and that is there perogative, just as it is mine to state them.

If I have offended you, I apologise, but probably anything I say would offend you, some folks are just that way, they do not like or do not handle people speaking their mind or making truthful statements real well.

That is their problem.

As supposed adults we are each entitled to our thoughts and opinions.

Thankfully Saeed and the rest of the management staff of this site are adult enough, to allow people to state their opinions, as long as they keep it reasonable.

Have I ever stepped over the line as to what is reasonable and what isn't, YOU DAMN RIGHT, AND I AIN'T THE ONLY ONE.

Having looked at and participated on a few sites, Accurate Reloading, is about the best there is, because if for no other reason, the folks that run this ite realize that not everyone sees things the same way.

I believe that concept escapes you.

Ian,

You're either a confused liar or a fraud! (Do I now qualify for an invitation to visit your favorite spots in the bush? Do I bring my 9.3 or .450/400? If I insult you more can I spend two weeks? )

CHC

You simply confirmed what I already knew. You feel like a victim when anyone offers an opinion you don't like. It's a strange reaction, and you shouldn't, but that's just you. Nothing about you escapes me.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
CHC

You simply confirmed what I already knew. You feel like a victim when anyone offers an opinion you don't like. It's a strange reaction, and you shouldn't, but that's just you. Nothing about you escapes me.

I don't feel like a victim, never have.

Having a person disagree with me is just part of life.

In fact when people agree with me on stuff, I really wonder what their motive is.

I see scottyboy is a cheer leader for you, I just think it is so neat to see folks that have to try and covey up together against presumed enemies.

quote:

If I have offended you, I apologise, but probably anything I say would offend you, some folks are just that way, they do not like or do not handle people speaking their mind or making truthful statements real well.

That is their problem.

Seems to me, you are the one that has a problem with someone disagreeing with you.

Last time I checked, this site does not posts reponses or opinions in order of the popularity of the person making them.

450/400 Jeffrey's

Now you've really gone and done it. Thats it you get the full treatment.
I think you should bring both the 9.3 and the 450/400 for me to exact the full effects of this treatment on you...
On the topic, is that an original Jeffrey 450/400? Would love to see some pics if it is.

On the topic of the Okavango, any particular direction you were dreaming in?
Chat soon
Ian

Bring on your best, I can take it! Make it 14 or 21 days, you won't beat me down.

My Jeffrey's is an original, built about 1911. I got copy of the original build order from Holland and Holland who has Jeffrey's records. The English kow how to build a well balanced rifle, for sure. Let's try a photo:

Ian,

The lastest software update on my MAC seems to have an issue with photobucket right now. I might need to email a photo.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff

YOu are a lucky man indeed, you better hang on to that really tight if I ever meet up with you. Looking forward to seeing it.

I know where you are at with the mac, mine has been giving me more shit than its worth lately, just cant figure it out.

If you don't come right with the pics just mail them to mail@africanbushsafari.com

Chat soon
Ian

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by olguy:
Many thanks Saeed; two thumbs up. I have been VERY suspicious of a few of these posters. Couple of nights ago I almost asked one of them if he was a plant for the antis, but it was late and I just did not have the energy. There is one in particular who is very argumentative; does not answer questions but continues to rant. By his conduct though and his weak presentations he shows his true stripes. I too, would like to know identities so I can avoid/ignore their post- and perhaps take the action proposed by daleW. I think this is another example of the lack of integrity, cowardice and the low dealings of the PETA people and other antis. Thanks to you for this site and all that you do to keep it a proper forum.

The sad part is this really has nothing to do with PETA.

As while looking at all the posts that were made, one would imagine they knew what they were asking.

Some went as far as claiming they are from a different country - and went as far as pretending not to understand some English. While on another post they slip up and post in perfect English.

With that sort of stupidity, no wonder us as gun owners and hunters keep getting into all sort of trouble becuase of their actions.

I see that the subject of "freedom of speech" has been brought up.

Well, with freedom comes responssibility.
And ultimately, this IS a private website, and our rules have to be followed.

We ctually do not ask for much.

All we ask is that members should show civility towards their fellow members.

I visit a number of forums, dealing with different subjects, and I can assure you none of them would allow posters to go to the extent we do.

Sometimes, however, certain individuals do go too far as far as I am concerned. And when that happens, it really leaves me no choice but to put an end to it.

I had a message from one of our long time members on this very subject.

He basically said I would not have had to raise a finger to get rid of those obnoxious characters if we were sitting by a real camfire, HE would be happy to "eject" them.

The Internet has been an extremely beneficial medium for all of us.

At the same time it has allowed those with very small minds and no real life to act in manners they are unable to do so in real life.

Thanks Saeed.