Greeting everyone. As someone who has never hunted dangerous animals, I am just wondering, how dangerous are they in reality? Does anyone have any "this happened to me" stories that they want to share? I used the search and most of the posts were philosophical analogies of using this load or that load but very few stories to suggest the hunts are as dangerous as advertised. Thanks John

The reality is that they are very dangerous. What makes a difference is all the discussion on the right loads, calibers, personal experiences with same, picking the right safari company and PH, etc. It is very valuable to heed the advice of all that have been there done that. It is challenging when done prperly and being in the tall grass with buffalo, lion, elephant and the like around is a different world than say hunting eastern whitetails in the open wood lots.It all adds up to dimishing the probablities of serious injury or death. Every year there are casualties and there will continue to be so. Hopefully there aren't many "this happened to me" stories because preparation and luck were with the hunter.Glad you asked??

Ummm -- Yeah ! Pathfinder has it very, very right.

There are numerous incidents told to us by the various African that describe in chilling detail why such game are dangerous. Of course some people with healthy doses of cynicism discount those as having a bit of literary license. This past year though demonstrated again why such danger is not just a creation of the writer's mind. A buffalo badly injured a very experienced Nicky Atcheson, and another killed professional guide Bob Fontana. Lest we forget the sad event of the elephant killing Zim PH Carl Branford. And those are in the very recent past, not at all an event captured only in a writer's book.

Looking only slightly further back ....

(posting from 2003, by Saeed)
Ladies and Gentlemen,

This is from the book HUNTING THE BIG FIVE by Robin Hurt.

This is a compilation of all accidents since 1963 to the publication of the book.

Injured by leopard, 54% very rare for leoprad to kill a hunter
Injured or killed by buffalo, 25%; of these, one in 6 is fatal
Injured or killed by lion, 14%; of these, one in 20 is fatal
Injured or killed by elephant, 4%, most don't live to tell the tale
Injured or killed by hippo, 2%, of these, half are fatal
Injured or killed by rhino, 1%.


(Posting from October '04)
If you are member of the Dallas Safari Club there is a great story in the new Game Trails magazine about an attack by a leopard on a PH.

Seems the PH and his trackers, along with a client, were tracking a leopard in South Africa. The leopard, tired of being tracked, attacked one of the trackers. The PH shot it twice with a shotgun (12 gauge slugs) and went to help the attacked tracker. The leopard was not dead. It got up and attacked the PH. A second tracker killed it with the PH's handgun. It took over 1,300 stitches to close all the wounds on the PH.

The leopard weighed 254 pounds and was over 9 feet long.

So my answer to splinterhands in asking "how dangerous are they in reality" is that they are deserving of your truly best efforts to not become another statistic. Anyway, that's what drives me to hunt them.

Splinterhands,

I have an example below:



This elephant charged, and ended up being shot at only a few meters by my PH; Myles McCallum. It's intentions were definately to squash us! I would say that counts as "Dangerous Game"!

A quote from the report I wrote:

quote:

Day three started with the same tracking of elephant as the previous two days, and this day we decided that I would take a shot if we came across a nice cow. Unfortunatly, we spent the morning and midday sneaking in and out of herds where all the cows had young... Thus, none of them were shootable. in the early afternoon, we went into yet another herd, and that is when the trouble started. In this herd, there was as far as we could see about 6 adults, all with calves that were too young to loose their mothers. As we were then about to withdraw, the wind changed direction a little and they became aware of our presence. At that time the herd was spread in front of us in a semi-circle 20-40 meters away. They began to squeal and trumpet, and then took off to our right at high speed. We had then begun to move away to our rear when we saw that one tuskless cow broke away from the herd and decided that we needed to be scared a bit more, even though we were withdrawing. Paddington (game scout) and Big5 tracker Richard were by then quite far ahead, running as fast as they could, while Ringo; Myles "second" tracker said I must follow him. As if it needed saying! Myles was about 10 meters behind at the time, and running full out by then too. The jesse was very dense and green there, so we were running bent forward, thru little maze like corridors in the vegitation. It was next to impossible to see much more than 10 meters ahead actually. As Ringo and I rounded a bend in the bush, coming up to where the trackers were, we heard a shot behind us. Stopping for 2 seconds to listen, I then ran back with my gun held high at the ready. A second shot came, and as I rounded the turn in the bushes, I saw Myles standing there very excited. The tuskless cow was laying there only a few meters away! It turned out that as Myles was coming around one of the turns in the "labyrinth", the cow had decided to take a shortcut straight thru, and cut him off. When Myles rounded the turn, he saw the cow out of the corner of his eye, only meters away, reaching for him with her trunk! He didn't even have time to fully shoulder the gun, but was able to hit it near enough the brain to stun it and make it fall. He then shot the second shot in the brain the kill it. We were of course very alert in case some of the other cows came back after hearing the shot. And the game scout fired a few AK47 rounds in the air to scare them off. Right next to my ear... He wasn't happy as his rifle kept malfunctioning, and later switched it for a better one back at the Nat. Parks office.

So, although only about 10-15 meters in front of Myles, the bush was too dense for me to even see the event. Much less fire off a shot. The rest of the afternoon was spent going to the Nat. Parks office and then skinning the elephant and cutting up the meat. Even though I didn't get any shooting action, it was still an intersting experiance, and it is actually lucky that Myles didn't get squashed! Or any other of us for that matter, had more than one cow decided to charge. Obviously, no more hunting was done that day.

The rest can be found here:
Hunting tuskless elephant cows in Zim.

Splinterhands,

No, I have not faced a full blown charge..But I have hunted bull ele and buf...I shot the ele at 30 feet in " the jess " thick green river bottom growth 14 feet high...The eles glide thru it almost silently...I tore two shirts and one pair of trowsers, stalking the eles..I even had a close encounter 20 feet another bull ele..
I saw it before the PH so close could not talk just point...If he came he was on us in one step and a trunk would grab you...
Hunted buf higherground up in the jess and you track them...and try to keep the wind in your face...We were tracking buf and could hear them out in front and all off a sudden I hear the Tracker point and say simba..I whisper, " what about lion." Ph says, " they, a pride are tracking the buf and we got to get out of here"...We make a quick exit back and down wind and in about a minute sounded like all hell broke loose animals grunting, crashing snapping trees and branches..Like an explosion in all directions...Makes ones hair stand up...
What I am saying is that you will be hunting them up close..Not like shooting an animal at 100yds. You stalk up to within very personal distance...An ele, buf, lion, and leopard can do alot of damage in a very short time, seconds.

Mike

I would add a reference to the experience of one of our number, JudgeG, whose post of his experience, I've been to the mountain, was one of the most read post of last year. If that doesn't put it in perspective nothing will.

From my own limited experience, I can tell you that when I found blood and bone under the tree where I had shot at a leopard, it became a very different ball game. It was ph and trackers to the front, hunters to the rear until the truck was brought up, and then it was very careful looking about from the truck until it was found-dead. There genuine sighs of relief from everyone.

When you are on a buffalo stalk, and they are all about you, you are definitely at risk. When you are in territory in which elephant are about and can appear at any time, you are at risk. Ditto with lion. And as JudgeG experienced, life get truly interesting when you and the lion are hunting the same bufalo!

I can't speak for everyone, but I would not venture forth in lion/elephant/buffalo territory without a rifle capable of reliably killing one of these animals. I did it once, was lucky, and I won't do it again. Kudude

Erik,

I know Richard quite well, and would hate to see him get squished!

Obviously it is not that dangerous as otherwise there would be a lot more guys getting hammered. But the big saving grace is having an experienced PH to save your ass most of the time when required. If you are hunting by yourself the danger goes up enormously.

But then on the other hand when you do get stepped on, you get your own post-of-fame on AR, if that is any consolation.

Oh yeah, ask the guys (like Nikki, Francois, etc.) that have got hammered and see if they think it is dangerous!

Dang, can't ask the guys that got killed. Bummer.

Ask PHs Rory Muil and Kevin du Boil if wounded leopards are dangerous. They both have pretty good stories (and scars).

As for me personally, how about being 15 yards from a pissed-off buffalo and not even knowing it. It turned out OK, but I could have been smashed and not even seen it coming. Here's my story One Down and One in My Pocket. The next time you hear someone say, "Don't worry, the PH will be there to back you up if something goes wrong," refer them to this story.

Or the time we were hunting for my wounded buffalo in the jesse of the Zambezi Valley. Rory stops and whispers, "There are elephants on three sides of us, we need to get out of here fast." From the look on his face and the faces of the trackers, I knew it was serious business. Jesse too thick to see the elephants, but you could here their guttural rumblings.

Someone doesn't have to get killed for that kind of hunting to be dangerous.

Regards,

Terry

Look, they don't call them dangerous for any other reason than just that. How dangerous are they? HOW DEAD IS DEAD IF YOU SCREW UP? Take my word for it, there is definitely a completely different feeling in hunting dangerous game. And there are more than enough stories and examples right here on AR to attest to that.

I've only hunted DG twice. The first day we were on a long stalk in very high temps/humidity. We were very close and moved in on the buffalo several times. As we were repositioning for another try and starting the crawl in I noticed a terrible smell; like NOTHING I had ever smelled before. It was ME!Anyway it was something that got my attention at the time. Have noticed it since when things get hairy.Doesn't happen to me in other conditions. Just a DG thing.

I've been in the situation ErikD's been in several times. We never needed to shoot an elephant we didn't want to shoot but it was close three of four times. Another half dozen times we were either running flat out or backing out with rifles ready.

At 100yds dangerous game isn't dangerous but up close...

Just knowing your next shot might be for your life or death or the run your making might be for your life is incredibly intense.

JPK

Howdy Splinterhands

Checkout the following website:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/lionhunt.html

quote:

Originally posted by ghostrider_tx:
Howdy Splinterhands

Checkout the following website:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/lionhunt.html

This video is total

Even though I have never faced a charge, that didn't provide much comfort when I wounded a cape buffalo last year and we tracked blood for three full days. Soon after we began the tracking, I realized that this was the realization of my worst nightmare. Here I was, old, overweight, under-experienced, and with a rifle that would not chamber a second round without jamming. AND I WAS ON POINT!

As I've said before, you couldn't have driven a 10 penny nail up my butt with a 12-pound sledge hammer!

Damn right it's dangerous.

I feel the chances of being killed are small as with the right PH and loads equipment and preperation, chances of death are some what narrowed down, But..... hunting dangerous game in wild Africa with a distinct possibility of things not going to plan, a little bit of bad luck and a Cape buff that just wont go down.... this is what makes it so addictive and exciting... there is no other hunting quite like it!!

In the past few seasons in Africa I have met one PH that has been thrown by a Black Rino, one who was hammered by a Buff and chewed up by a Leopard and one that was also tossed by a Buffalo.
I Have spoken to a PH who has a regular client who has been run over by an Elephant then the next year hammered by a Buff.
Also was told many storys of game shot while charging.
My own experiences in my limited time in Africa {so far} has been running away from angry Elephant at close quarters and a charge by a Lioness.
Just being in the close vicinity of lion ,Buff, Ele and Hippo makes the cost of a reliable large caliber rifle so much easier to bare.

Danger is relative. Not as dangerous as some other jobs like crab boating the stormy shore of AK. Odds are, hunting DG, you are going to live to tell the tale. Are you going to get into situations that may involve some pucker factor? Chances are good for that. Going into the long grass that you know has lions, buff and elephant in it is exciting to say the least. My son had a black mamba rear up close enough to see the color of the inside of it's mouth. Danger enough.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
I Have spoken to a PH who has a regular client who has been run over by an Elephant then the next year hammered by a Buff.

...I guess he will consider before his next visit

From the African Hunter website:- "The leopard. The Chinese have animal names for years. If hunters were to do the same, this would probably rate as the year of the Leopard! Not because of a new world record shot, but from the number of hunters who have “enjoyed†a quick face lift and tummy tuck at the hands of “Spotsâ€. Eighteen from around the region so far." - I don't know if "the region' refers just to Zimbabwe or spreads further afield.

Guess I came close to being added to that list a few months ago..... but I managed to drop the Leopard at 6 yards with a shot in the face...... There's a picture on the Tanzania page of my website..... Just look for the Leopard with the extra hole in his face.

If someone wants to get some idea of the sheer power in any of the Big 5 all they have to do is spend a little time watching them.....

Splinterhands, I'll just say, when you pop a cape buffalo, or lion,a little off center, and he gets into the long grass, and you have to go in after him, then you tell me how dangerous YOU think they are, and how bad your rifle is!

Don't listen to the crap about depending on a fine PH that everyone knows, to pull your bacon out of the fire! Many times, the PH is the first one hit by a mad bite-back, and you are handed the job of not letting his bacon burn.

In the final analysis, you are responcible for your own safety, so take an adiquate rifle, and know how to shoot it, in close, as this is the only place where dangerous game is, in fact, really dangerous.

Are these animals really dangerous? Well YES they are. like dangerous game, Automobiles are not dangerous as long as you keep the one you are driveing,right side up, and if on foot, stay on the sidewalk, and away from the ones others are driveing! It is much the same with dangerous game! Like automobiles, they are not dangerous unless you get close to them, at the wrong time, and place!

You may hunt these animals for several years, and never get stomped, or bitten, but like with a car, one encounter may do the trick! The fact that you don't get hurt, doesn't mean you weren't in danger a lot of the time, even if you aren't aware of it!

I wasn't hunting them, but got "treed" by a black rhino in Zimbabwe in 2003. I climbed a dead acacia tree, and the branch broke, and I fell on my rifle, with the bolt cracking a disc in my back. Cracked my "unbreakable" kevlar synthetic stock in the wrist. Most scared i've ever been in my life.

Jeff

Splinterhands:

I hunted in Africa only once. It's really probably only the "Big Three" because rhino hunting in the bush with a rifle is not legal any more and most leopard are shot from a stand. It's unlikely that the PH would allow you to go into the brush around an acacia tree (from which you may have knocked the leopard off a limb) to finish him off (when he is really dangerous) If you're a rich man and hunted leopard by ground chase (prepare to spend many weeks at it) it might be different. (Even when I wasn't hunting leopard, my PH told me to watch the overhanging branch of an acacia because the leopard will hunt man) As to elephant, lion and Cape buffalo, believe it! They truly are dangerous!. ( You can add hippo to the list as well) You can look at films and pictures of these critters until you're half blind - and nothing will give you a real idea of what they are like until you see them in the flesh in the real "bush" ( not locked up in a zoo) You think you know the dimensions and size of an African elephant? I was 63 before I got to Africa - and was absolutely dumbfounded when I saw an African matriarch elephant at about 50 yards distance! I looked at yearling males at 75 yards - and they blocked out the trees behind them. Believe me, the story tellers, the PHs, the African hunters are not exaggerating. There are some really dangerous animals in Africa who don't recognize that you are No.1

quote:

Originally posted by kudude:
I would add a reference to the experience of one of our number, JudgeG, whose post of his experience, I've been to the mountain, was one of the most read post of last year. If that doesn't put it in perspective nothing will.

From my own limited experience, I can tell you that when I found blood and bone under the tree where I had shot at a leopard, it became a very different ball game. It was ph and trackers to the front, hunters to the rear until the truck was brought up, and then it was very careful looking about from the truck until it was found-dead. There genuine sighs of relief from everyone.

When you are on a buffalo stalk, and they are all about you, you are definitely at risk. When you are in territory in which elephant are about and can appear at any time, you are at risk. Ditto with lion. And as JudgeG experienced, life get truly interesting when you and the lion are hunting the same bufalo!

I can't speak for everyone, but I would not venture forth in lion/elephant/buffalo territory without a rifle capable of reliably killing one of these animals. I did it once, was lucky, and I won't do it again. Kudude

Given the source, I think the JudgeG "story" must be filed under the fiction category versus actual experience. Nevertheless a great "story".

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Splinterhands,
Don't listen to the crap about depending on a fine PH that everyone knows, to pull your bacon out of the fire! Many times, the PH is the first one hit by a mad bite-back, and you are handed the job of not letting his bacon burn.

In the final analysis, you are responcible for your own safety, so take an adiquate rifle, and know how to shoot it, in close, as this is the only place where dangerous game is, in fact, really dangerous.

Absoloutly right on the money Mac. People who make the statement "shot whatever you want because the PH will be there to back you up". Are mouth breathing, long stem eye donor, IDIOTS.

That's kind of like saying don't worry about getting shot down in a dog fight because your wing man will be covering your ass. No in this world just like in that world you need to be able to cover your own ass. That means proper equipment and training is mandatory.

Even the best PH can not cover you all the time.

When the shit hits the fan it tends to do so very quickly and without warning and in any type of situation like that, the variables go up exponentially.

I stood a very close range charge in the Dande last year.

Here are some of the facts.

This was on a buffalo that had two bullets through the lungs. .475 bullets one expander and one solid.

(There goes the theory that a lung shot buff will ALWAYS dies within a few minutes. )

After the shot we waited for about 20 or 25 minutes. We could hear the buff he hadn't gone more than 50 yards and was standing in the thick stuff coughing and gagging but we couldn't see him because the cover was so thick.

After we couldn't hear him anymore and we thought we heard him crash over and die we went in cautiously to retrieve him.

We weren't quite sure he was dead so we were all being very cautious. Both the PH and I were carry double rifles in .470NE.

We were having some trouble locating the bull due the thickness of the cover. When we did locate the bull he was lying with his head up looking at us about 15 yards and in some really nasty thick brush also known as jesse.

The PH was on point he told me he could see the bull and it's head was up. I told him to shoot as I couldn't see it.

Here comes the "variable" part.

The PH shoots his bullet snags on some brush and tumbles it goes through the buffs right ear sideways (straight up and down) and burns a welt up the right side of the bulls neck from just behind his ear to about the shoulder.


That was enough to launch a mostly dead lung shot buff into one last blast adrenalin soaked charge.

At the shot the buff grunts springs to his feet and is coming the PH and I both shoot we both hit him square in the chest (In fact post mortem showed both bullets about 1" apart from each other) the only affect that had on the buff was to accelerate him.

Now the PH’s gun is EMPTY another variable that we never think about until it's happened. So much for “back upâ€

I distinctly remember hearing him "ping" open his rifle to reload as I dodged around him to his left to try and get a clear shot.

By the way a buffalo especially a mad one covers 15 yards really fast so this all happened in a matter of seconds.

As I dodged left the buffalo was just clearing the brush he was in and he was violently throwing his head up and down either out of anger or pain or maybe he was just knocking the brush out of the way but here comes another big variable.

("If a buffalo charges you just wait until he's real close then shoot him in the head." Guess what sports fans a head shot is not always possible. So I guess this statement gets another flag )

The only possible shot I had was for a shoulder or a neck shot. I took the neck shot which killed the bull. Which I'm sure was more luck than skill. But I'll take it.

He was very close when he expired.

Here is another statement worthy of a flag.

"You don't need to practice fast reloads as you'll never have to reload during a charge."


You never know when you'll have to reload in hurry so practice it and have your rounds where they can be gotten to quickly as you may need them. Loose in a pocket just ain't going to cut it on a DG hunt ever.

Just my humble and “flowery†$.02.

Greg

Splinterhands,

Even in the most mundane of situations in Africa you may become very aware of why it is called DG hunting. You may be just driving down the road and out of nowhere comes a elephant with an attitude. When your looking up at an animal whose weight is measured in tons and obviously has mayhem on its mind gainig on the vehicle you are in you will be very aware of what DG means.

Mark

mouse93, after the Buffalo incident, the client only missed one season before he came back for more.
A PH once told me that he wants his clients to have a rifle big enough to get him self out of trouble on his own as the PH is not always in the right position for backup.

Splinters,
And we haven't even talked about the "non-dangerous" game that can skewer you with horns from 11" to 40", or bite you, or kick you.

My brother had a ph in Namibia who was helping load up gemsbok on a truck through a cattle-chute. One got hung up, and he got close enough to him to be reached. The gemsbok put a horn right through the palm of his hand, about between the pointee finger and the index finger. He said it happened so quick, he didn't even know it was done.

He also said he want to see exactly how accurate they were with the horns. He tossed 1 rand pieces into their pen, and the gemsbok consistently hit them. And these aren't dangerous game. Kudude

PS: Did I mention a lion can disappear in the short grass at twenty-five yards? kd

I have found them to be no more dangerous than rabbits, as long as I was able to sneak up on them, my first shots were well-placed, and they did the proper thing and died from them right away.

I'll add another thought too. It always suprised me how quiet elephants can be, no matter how thick the brush and also how little brush was required to hide an elephant.

JPK

Another consideration is the possibility of encountering a wounded or injured animal as the result of poacher activity. In Zimbabwe with the amount of poaching now going on chance encounters with injured and pissed off dangerous game is a real possibility. A few years ago we walked into a lioness in a snare. Fortunately she was too far gone to give us trouble. I often wonder what would have happened if we had been a little earlier. We were hunting kudu at the time. I had a 30/06 and my PHs rifle was in the hands of one of the trackers. Ever since my light rifle has become a 375!

Thanks for all the replies. A lot of very good reading! John

There's an article in the new Sports Afield that came today by Craig Boddington on hunting the big cats. He discusses danger and dangerous game in it. Read it.

.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
mouse93, after the Buffalo incident, the client only missed one season before he came back for more.
A PH once told me that he wants his clients to have a rifle big enough to get him self out of trouble on his own as the PH is not always in the right position for backup.

ozhunter I was just juggleing about the mans fortune possibility and I know that sphincter freeze feeling like when you are going to crash with brakes blocked, just waiting and watching to happen, not many can do the job and you can never get used to it and luck is always apretiated

mouse93, I think this chap must realy enjoy his african hunting a lot to keep at it with such bad luck.
Cheers
Adam C

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
I'll add another thought too. It always suprised me how quiet elephants can be, no matter how thick the brush and also how little brush was required to hide an elephant.

JPK

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Absolutely<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

A PH, and myself, were cutting through some fairly thick jesse to check a small spring, for Buffalo tracks, when I saw something out of place, and stopped. I pointed to it for the PH to look at! He turned as white as a sheet, and about that time I realized what I was looking at was the hind food of a very large elephant, about 15 feet in front, and a little off the trail we were on. We couldn't see any other part of the ELE other than that foot!

Luckily the wind was right, and we were able to back out of the thick thorn. The thought occured to me there may be others on either side, and behind us! I have no idea if there were more ele in that patch, or even if it was bull, or cow, but he/she was BIG, and CLOSE! My 500/450NE double rifle felt like a daisey BB gun in my hands when I realized what we were so close to!

I assure you we didn't go into any thick stuff the rest of that day!

Several african PHs have told me that hunting elephant in mixed herds of cows and calves in jess is the most dangerous hunting you can find. It is only surpassed in danger level by following up a wounded elephant, buff, lion or leopard. I have shot four elephants out of mixed herds and been charged twice. In both cases the elephant was stopped at less then eight yards. Then again maybe I am just unlucky.

465H&H

No you weren't unlucky, especially since the elephants were stopped!

I have shot two tuskless cows. The first went without a hitch, charge wise, in the relatively open brush of the Zambezi Valley, during Oct when almost all is brown and leafless.

The same month in the lowveld, along a running river, where all was still thick and green we were charged five or six times while hunting for another tuskless. The thick, green brush allowed us to sprint out of sight though and after a bit the elephant would loose intrest and returned to the rest of the herd. This is contrary to all that I'd read about having to stand the charge and shoot your way out but it worked.

We were also charged by a cow shortly after we left the truck to try for a warthog. Because of the thick green brush we didn't see the elephants til almost too late to avoid shooting this one. As it was, we were able to sprint back to the truck and barely make an escape without having to kill an elephant we weren't hunting.

JPK

The real danger in hunting the "big five" is to your wallet!