I'm wondering how many of you, with rifles from .300 mag on up, have your barrels ported or have muzzle brakes installed? I was just talking with a friend of my parents (who has quite a bit of plains game under his belt, including the most incredible Kudu i've ever seen) who was telling me that none of his africa rifles have recoil reducing devices, and that some african countries don't allow them. I asked him why and he said he didn't know exactly, but probably because the massive muzzle blast can (over time) really hurt native tracker's ears.

Ooops, just did a search and saw tht this topic has been just about beat to death on this forum.

Nonetheless, I didn't see anything in other posts about them being banned in certain countries?

This brake thing and hearing is bull. The report form a non brake rifle in 375 and up will do as much damage to ones hearing as one with a brake. That is why God created fingers among others.

I think the PH's would like to see them banned. Some PH's have had terrible experiences with ported rifles fired by clients when the client is slightly back of the PH. I've also heard a couple of PH's say that if a client can shoot more accurately with a brake he should use it. I'd check with my PH before leaving the States with a ported DG rifle.

Regards,

Mark

If they don't want a ported or braked rifle a PH better say so up front and loud and clear. I have some of my rifles ported and some not. I will choose what rifle I hunt with. There are plenty of places and PH's to hunt with. If you like your guns braked and the PH doesn't like it I would be happy to hunt with someone else. To each his own. Stand back and get your asbestos raincoat on. The flames are sure to rise high tonight!

I have never heard a real PH say anything about a brake..Folks show up all the time with them and our PHs never complain...I am sure some do, but some will whine about anything..

I always tell folks that if their PH complains about a brake come hunt with us....Any big bore will ruin your hearing with or without a brake, God gave PHs fingers to stick in his ears...

I would rather contend with a lound noise than track an animal all day because the hunter was flinchy...Most folks with braked rifles shoot darn well....

It's a bunch of horse hockey as for as I'm concerned, use them if you like them, just forewarn everyone.....If I was booking for a PH and he complined about a muzzle brake, he would immediatly be looking for another booking agent. I don't intend to loose a commission over something as trivial as that.

I don't think I've ever taken a shot unless everyone was well behind me - I don't think I could do it!

mike

My experience is with a Rem. 350 Mag. with the bbl. magna-ported and 338 Win. with the BOSS system.
I will not shoot the Magna-port 350 Mag. again until I solder or braze the holes shut.
The BOSS system is not as bad, but I will replace it with the no holes system. They do increase noise for the shooter. If you flinch now without the brake, you will really flinch after shooting with a brake a few times. Shoulders heal, hearing does not.

This is an interesting study done by Dr. William Clark, Ph.D. senior research scientist in charge of the Noise Labratory at the Central Institute for the Deaf in St. Louis. http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml

"we have listed critical data describing peak sound pressure levels produced by firearms used in shooting and hunting sports. A serious byproduct of this exposure is sensory-neural hearing loss, which cannot be restored to normal. With the introduction of muzzle brakes and PORTING, the risks of hearing loss dramatically increase."

From Dr. Clark's tests.

.30-06 in 24" barrel 158.5dB
.375 — 18" barrel with muzzle brake 170 dB

Note: an increase of 3 dB is a doubling of the "strength" of the sound, and an increase of 10 dB means that the sound is 10 times as loud; i.e., 70 dB is 10 times as loud as 60 dB. http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99405.htm

I know it is a shorter barrel, bigger caliber, etc...., but what are the odds of a muzzle brake on a '06 vs. a 375? I would say the odds of the 375 of having some recoil management device would be higher. Hopefully, the decision of what device that would be an educated one with all things considered.

A more accurate comparison would be the 18 inch .30-06 at 163db vs the 18 inch braked .375 at 170db. Not nearly as much difference as you would expect. And a .357 handgun comes in at 164. Hell, I've shot them without hearing protection for over 40 years. Whaddya say?

I can tell you one thing, shooting my KDF braked .300 WM is a pleasure as long as you've got muffs on. Of course, it does have a 26 inch barrel which probably helps a bit.

I like them enough that I just left a Dakota .375 to be braked at KDF. Now that is a kicking SOB.....we'll see how it feels when it has been braked.

Of course, if you're really concerned about your hearing you can shoot 36 inch long barrels and reduce the sound by 40 or so decibels.

Regarless of any noise debate....muzzle-brakes are ugly and I won't hunt with an ugly rifle.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

P.S.

Gato...The season is almost over here for birds (got back from the oasis again last sunday). If you want to come, plan on next December for Ducks and doves.

"Regarless of any noise debate....muzzle-brakes are ugly and I won't hunt with an ugly rifle.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek"

Amen John

L

JTG:

Did you ever go? I never heard back from you, so assumed the deal fell through.

I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that KDF turns that .300 WM Shilen custom into a goddess as far as I'm concerned. I just killed 2 coyotes in 2 days with it, one just over 500 and one at 367 yds. First one was just an unlucky coyote since I guessed at the hold over and he died anyway, ranged it later. The second one, I had a rangefinder with me, he was dead from the get go with about a 3 inch over his back hold. It is currently sighted in 4 3/4 inches hi at 100 yds, makes it 3 inch low at 300 meters, 36 inches low at 500m. To say that I like it is an understatement. I am not recoil sensitive, but I've shot a million or so rounds shooting trap, not to mention at least 50-100 thousand shooting birds and I don't have a thing to prove by standing there and getting the snot kicked out of me for the fun of it. Kind of like getting hit by a heavyweight boxer, I might can stand it, but I don't claim to enjoy it.

BTW, KDF brakes, as well as Vais, I believe, are the same diameter as the barrel, screw on and screw off and are not very noticeable at any distance. I guess it is a matter of opinion, but there a many things about most rifles that are a helluva lot more ugly than those two types of muzzle brakes to my eyes. The dog nut type don't look very good, I will admit. While I'm not knocking them, if you hunt with a synthetic stock or even a plain walnut stock, then don't talk to me about ugly.

Gato,

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/923101841/r/923101841#923101841

If I messed up I humbly apologize. I went in December and again last weekend. About ten ducks the first morning in December followed by 30+ doves that afternoon. This last trip saw 15 quail drop in the morning and 50+ doves fall in the afternoon. The ducks are gone this late but the season doesn't close until the end of April on quail and palm doves if you have a few days to dart over for a weekend. I will arrange it for us no problem as I am planning something tentatively for the second to the last week in April. If you want ducks, plan on next December and I will arrange it and join you then as well.

Best,

JohnTheGreek

Atkinson, I think you are right to generalize that PH's rarely make disparaging comments about clients' choices of rifles or options put on them. Most follow the Bambi dictum of "if you can't say anthing nice then don't say anything at all" and this is common courtesy and good manners. However, I have asked directly two PH's about muzzle brakes and both said that given the choice they would prefer to guide clients that don't use them.

They are ugly, that is my only complaint..

I guide deer and antelope hunters every year and lately many of them use brakes...It does not bother me in the least..I put my fingers in my ears or plugs that are on a string around my neck depending on time involved...

I know that hearing loss is a part of hunting...There were no muzzle brakes throughout the most of my hunting career and I have always used hearing protection on the bench, but I still lost a lot of my hearing as each and everyone of you will do if you hunt much at all...It is the trade off for being a hunter..If you think you can beat the odds on this then be my guest...but you cannot hunt dangerous game with hearing protection on IMO....

Do your best to save your hearing but in the end I think too much is made of all this..If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen...

I still think the BP-Technology brake is the way to go. It reduces recoil by 35-45%, eliminates muzzle rise, and has a zero increase in noise.
I have their brake on my .375 and the recoil is now very modest. I notice no increase in the noise level and the elimination of the muzzle rise is a big plus when you need to keep the gun in place for a follow-up shot.
If you go their site and watch their videos, particularly the big bores and the one that is called "All The Marbles", I think you'll be impressed.

Vic

Read Longbob's post and links. Decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale. Muzzle brakes more than double the harmful effects of muzzle blast. BP-Technology aside, perhaps, but at what cost in effectiveness?

You can bet that any knucklehead who says that muzzle brakes don't matter to hearing loss has this standard first answer in any conversation: "Huh? What?"

I had my .416 mag-na-ported, a friend of mine has a .338 that has a muzzle brake on it. By far that muzzle brake hurts everyone around him when he shoots it! You can't hide from it!

On the other, mag-na-port, doesn't hurt bystanders like the M-B does. My PH said he perfers the Mag- over the M-B.

Does anybody know if any countries in Africa have actually banned thier use or possession?

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
This brake thing and hearing is bull. The report form a non brake rifle in 375 and up will do as much damage to ones hearing as one with a brake. That is why God created fingers among others.

The added level of noise from a braked equipted .375 WILL ruin your hearing quicker than an un-braked .375. If one doesn't care about their hearing by all means use a brake. The manufactures of hearing aids need the business. Lawdog

Poor Notmenotnow. No one has answered his question! I'll take a stab at it and someone correct me if I am wrong.

There are no countries that ban the use of muzzle brakes.

John

If a brake is quite then its not working, all a brake does is re-direct gas and the more towards you the better job it does, the rest is pure advertishing hype and BS...the bigger and uglier a brake is the better it works because it displaces more gas quicker...

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:
Regarless of any noise debate....muzzle-brakes are ugly and I won't hunt with an ugly rifle.

But doesn't your .416 have the factory stock?

Muzzel brakes and porting are nothing in South Africa silencer are legal to hunt with.That could explain some P.H.s getting pissed.

The PH I asked didnt complain about them did say the worst part of his job was when someone showed up with one. I wouldnt have one on a gun I also would not buy any gun with one on it.

It is my understanding that the muzzle blast noise not only travels through your ears but the sounds waves also travel through the bones behind the ears. Therefore sticking your fingers in your ears or earplugs make help but are not the solution. In an ideal world use earplugs along with muffs.

Muzzle brakes etc. are like cheap wine and ugly women.....something that should ALWAYS be avoided!!! If you cant handle the recoil then stick with the small bores!!!

There was a discussion of this muzzle brake some time ago and I wonder if anyone has tried one yet?
BP-Tech

Les

Lawdag, the optiumum word in your post is QUICKER.

Die Qu Jagter,

I would also die quicker if I started smoking, but I choose to avoid that. Of course, I smoke if I go really fast.

"Give me a brake (break) !!!"

Yep....... I like'em so much I've been known to machine them off to get a gun to group!

BigRx

I don't use muzzle breaks on any of my rifles, regardless of caliber, and I never will. I'd rather deal with recoil than the greatly increased noise level that breaks create.

Any notion that un unbreaked .375 H&H damages your hearing just as much as a breaked .375 is nonsense. The breaked rifle is a lot louder, and this has been proven in laboratory tests time and again. Even the highest-rated plugs and muffs worn together won't sufficiently protect your hearing from the typical breaked rifle.

And yeah, breaks are ugly by any standard; they structurally weaken the rifle; and they are also a bugger to clean properly.

AD

I have one of these on my Lazzeroni Patriot and a friend's 300 Weatherby without a brake is noticably louder.

http://www.muzzlebrakes.com/

Stick with me notmenotnow, we'll get someone besides myself to answer your question.

HIS QUESTION IS: ARE THERE ANY AFRICAN COUNTRIES THAT BAN THE USE OF MUZZLE BREAKS??????

30ott6, why should this string stick to the question most don't, eh.

Allen:

I don't care if you don't like them, but you should at least keep your statements accurate. How does a brake structurally weaken a rifle pray tell? And, most brakes, such as Vais and KDF are not touched by the bullet and need very little if any cleaning, besides common rust protection if you have one that is blued. They're cleaned everytime you shoot one.

quote:

Originally posted by 30ott6:
Stick with me notmenotnow, we'll get someone besides myself to answer your question.

HIS QUESTION IS: ARE THERE ANY AFRICAN COUNTRIES THAT BAN THE USE OF MUZZLE BREAKS??????

Thanks 3006.

I just pulled this quote from a favorite website of mine. See link for more.

"For a hunter in the field, shooting without ear protection, the muzzle blast from a muzzle brake is immediately deafening. Nearly complete temporary deafness usually lasts from about a minute to several minutes after firing a powerful magnum rifle equipped with a muzzle brake. Later almost all of the shooter's hearing returns, but a certain amount is permanently lost, and the losses are cumulative.

This is why hunting rifles equipped with muzzle brakes are illegal in some African jurisdictions. They have proven damaging to the unprotected hearing of the scouts and guides accompanying the hunter. In North America an increasing number of big game guides now refuse to let a sport use a rifle equipped with a muzzle brake for the same reason."
---http://www.chuckhawks.com/muzzle_brakes.htm