MIke sent me these photos to post. I hope he can add any relative comments.

WOW a bit tacky.....I like em

I found the calibers interesting. As to the embellishments, yes maybe a bit much, paricularly the gold plating. To be honest, I've always wanted a Crown Custom. Wonder if anybody can come up with similar pictures of Elgin Gates' Weatherbys, I'd like to see those in color. jorge

Pretty flashy. Not sure the gold plating would be such a great idea in the field. But to each his own, I guess. Interesting to see the pictures in any event.

The pictures of Elgin Gates' Weatherby rifles, as they appear in the two books of his that I have read, are not as flashy as these. Mind you, those pics were all black and white, and who knows what rifles he had and used other than the ones pictured in his books? I seem to recall some stock inlays in Gates' rifles??
- mike

P.S. What is a .284 Magnum?? Is it a 7mm Wthby??

I asked Saeed if he post up those pictures because I thought Alf and Ray might want to put an order in with Weatherby for similar rilfes

P.S. What is a .284 Magnum?? Is it a 7mm Wthby??

I think it might have been a 7mm/300 Wby and the 264 a 257 necked up.

Mike

Jorge,

The standard Crown Custom is about $7500US but if they do one with the good wood etc they are about $12000US

Mike

I like these.

http://www.weatherby.com/custom_shop/HGI/images/Custom_Large/custom_dgr_snowcamo.jpg

http://www.weatherby.com/custom_shop/HGI/images/Custom_Large/custom_crown.jpg

Pretty! But way to flashy for me! My guns are my tools, I'd be afraid to shoot these! I'd be afraid to do anything with these!

Interesting, but not to my taste...

I think they'd suit a downtown street pimp pretty well though!

The rear base on the .264 appears to only have one screw attaching it to the receiver. Perhaps it was soldered. If not, I'd sure hesitate to depend on it for any safari outside of Texas.

Rich Elliott

Mike & Saeed, Thanks for posting the pictures. Truly works of art.


cordell

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike375:
I think it might have been a 7mm/300 Wby and the 264 a 257 necked up.

Mike

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I thought (naive as I am), that the "WM" on the .264 cartridge box would have indicated a .264 Win Mag?? Who is to know?
- mike

Mike,
Please tell me you own one of these custom Weatherby rifles? Preferably an FN model?

Here's another gaudy rifle commissioned by another collegue of Roy Weatherby (Bobby Burns).
The first 460 sold, made on a Brevex action:

Rusty,

I have a pair of 378s that have arrived and are now just waiting our gun law paper work. Of course I requested Mauser actions but none were in stock.

This pair are not the fancy ones but have matching blonde stocks and the all steel bottom metal. Leaving aside the pros and cons of Wby rifles, once you move to their custom shop and non catologued items they are easily the best company in guns I have dealt with. It is very personal. The bloke even rings to confirm they have been shipped to the Wby agent and then rings to confirm they have been sent to the gun shop. The stocks are better finished and so on than the normal Mark V.

I would really like a Crown Custom in 378 but not the off the shelf standard rifle. But it would over stretch the budget at the moment. One of the problems with the pricing on the Wbys, and I don't know if this applies in the US of A, but once the rifle is a non catolgued gun they no longer offer the same deal to the import agent or dealer.

So for example, a 300 Wby standard Crown Custom might retail for 4 times a 300 Deluxe. But since they only go up to 340, if you wanted a 378 it would then end up costing a lot more than 4 times a 378 Deluxe.

If you so get what looks like a standard Deluxe and get the Kreiger cut rifle barrel and good wood then they cost about the same as the standard Crown Custom.

I hope I never develop anything that extends beyond a curiousity on double rifles

Mike

While I don't like Weatherbys , either action or stock design I can't fault the decoration. I have found I shoot better and am more confident with a good looking rifle than with a plain one. I personally have no problem hunting with a presentation grade gun. Everything I have was bought to use for the purpose it was built. My favorite bird gun and the one that gets the most use is a Grade VI Lightening in 28ga. If it were a Diana Grade I would still hunt with it. Different strokes for different folks.

Those rifles are gaudy alright, but a lot of work and quality materials went into them as well. I wonder how many man-hours it took to produce them? I doubt you could get their equal today (which is probably just as well!) from Weatherby's Custom Shop, no matter how much money you had to spend.

Herb Klein, for many years, was Weatherby's chief finacial partner. Without Herb Klein, there likely would be no Weatherby company today. Roy treated Herb as well as he possibly could, and since Herb could afford the finest, he got it, and nothing less.

I suspect those rifles were chambered for experimental Weatherby cartridges that were never commercially introduced. What better person to test the practicality and effectiveness of a new chambering than the globe-trotting Herb Klein, especially since he practically owned the company?

AD

quote:

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Originally posted by allen day:
Those rifles are gaudy alright, but a lot of work and quality materials went into them as well. I wonder how many man-hours it took to produce them? I doubt you could get their equal today (which is probably just as well!) from Weatherby's Custom Shop, no matter how much money you had to spend.
AD

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Nowadays most shooters prefer classic or traditional styling in custom rifles, but in the 1950s & 1960s "California" styling was the cat's meow.

If you can stand one more reference to Jack O'Connor, I know that he hunted with Herb Klein on at least several occasions, and I remember that on one of their African hunts each of them brought far too many rifles. I also remember reading that O'Connor and Roy Weatherby were friends, although O'Connor did not like Weatherby's gaudy stock designs, saying that they were infected with "the California virus." There is a photograph of Roy Weatherby meeting Jack in Jack's home in Lewiston Idaho; Roy is showing Jack one of the new Weatherby rifles.

quote:

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What is a .284 Magnum?? Is it a 7mm Wthby??_

I think it might have been a 7mm/300 Wby and the 264 a 257 necked up.

Mike

---

The regular 257, 270, and 7mm Weatherby Magnums all use the same case, with just a different case mouth/rifle bore size. So making a 6.5mm, or .264 Weatherby Magnum, on that case would be a simple problem.

I've never heard of a 7mm/300 Weatherby, i.e. a 7mm on the longer 300 Weatherby case, but that does not mean it does not exist. I'm sure that someone has made it as a wildcat, if nothing else.

Saeed,
Thanks for posting the pictures of Herb Klein's Weatherbys. If there is ever a Hunting Hall of Fame Museum built, those rifles deserve a place in them. Herb hunted more countries and shot more game then most of us will ever get a chance to. And he shot game animals in countries long since closed to Americans or where we are unable to import trophies from because of our far-sighted (read that antiquated) US Fish & Game regulations. We have all learned sustainable harvest of game animals actually conserves them by putting values on game animals and adding much needed FOREX to their economies. I'll stand down now!

Those rifles are a perfect match for the Rolex that was recently posted on another thread!!! Yikes........

Looking at these pictures an old Portuguese saying (that I will try to translate) comes to my mind:
“If it wasn’t for bad taste yellow would never sellâ€.

B.Martins

Well said Martins!!!

Mike375, if you don't mind me asking, why two higher priced rifles in the same chambering?

Red

Hi Mike: Yes, the Crown Custom you linked to is precisely the one I want or pretty close. The retail price here in the US is 7500, but I can get them for a bit less with my dealer's license. Man, ol' Roy Weatherby did one hell of a job "brainwashing" me as a kid. I remember those "Weatherby Guides," festooned with all kinds of trophies from all over the world, and to make matters worse, when JOHN WAYNE bought a few, that did it for me!

All kidding aside, I really like Weatherbys for the way they SHOOT. My 300 for example, is practically a "one holer." Today I went to the range, just to wring it out a bit since it is my "go-to" rifle. With 180 Partitions,

I was shooting right at 1" at 200 yards (275 zero). Then if you load some 220gr RNs (and believe me gents that IS a killer bullet) it prints them exactly dead on the bull at the same range or about 2" lower than the 180s. I know and appreciate the fact that some of you don't like the over-indulgence of Weatherbys and I admit, Herb's were a bit much for me, but that Crown Custom is just the cat's meow for me. But I have a safari to finance in less then 6 months.

Oh yeah, I couldn't stand it, the Model 70 300 H&H stays and the 300 Weatherby goes with me as my light rifle. Can't help myself...jorge

As examples of the riflemakers art they're quite simply fabulous........as examples of good taste or practicality they're actually the most f****ng ugly rifles I've ever seen in my life.

If you just saw them in a shop, you would probably wonder what the owner did for a living..........pimp perhaps?

Red,

I like to play around a lot with different loads, especially reduced loads, so one rifle for most of the shooting.

Mike

Jorge,

Like you, those early Wby guides won me. I used like the blonde rifles with the fish scale checkering. I went very close to a Crown Custom in the early 90s but what always put me off was the Made in Japan.

Back in about 1972 or 73 I made my first overseas phon call and was to Wby to get a pair of 460s, one for em and one for a mate. The Wby agent said I was better to do the leg work as virtually none had come to Australia. So I made the phone call and guess who I spoke with, you guessed it, Roy Weatherby. The two rifles were ordered with 120 cases each, the Wby scope and Redfield swing over mounts. I shot piles of roos and pigs with mine and a couple of years later sold it. My mate kept his as he thought it might be an investment. As it turned out in about 1991 I bought off it him and of course it had sat for nearly 20 years unused. A couple of years later it was sold to one of our gun writers. They bot had great French Walnut on them compared to today but to me still suffered from Made in Japan.

A couple of other shooters I met at the time I got the first one also phoned up Roy Weatherby and got a couple of the smaller ones, one being the 224. They had much better wood that was coming to Australia i the normal shipment. Although in all cases the rifles still had to be sent via the agent. The Wby agency in Australia has always been highly regarded because Wby would never work outside the agent as do some other companies.

But he seemed to be a man, well at least at that stage, who was very keen to talk to people from overseas.

My main problem with the Made in Japan was that Wbys had so much of a Chev Corvette type image, pure Americana.

But if you do end getting a Crown Custom try and round up the extra dollars and get it done as Build a Custom Gun rather than the standard Crown Custom.

Mike

Gentlemen

I wonder if Mr Kline was related to Liberache, sure looks so

Cheers
JOHAN

I think they call that....Pimp-o-flage.

Just a joke

urdubob

Just another ugly old pair of yellow wood Weatherby rifles. A 257 and a 300.



Estimated value. . . . PRICELESS.

Of course that's just to me. My aunt and uncle drove to South Gate, California, met Roy and were measured for the rifles. Both rifles are well traveled and have taken their share of game. Wonderful hunting memories attached to both rifles.

After all isn't that what it's all about?. . .Memories!

Rusty,

I wish I could remember who made those Wby scopes. The ones I had on my 460 had a reticle like a Pecar. Was it Prominar.

I see your lower rifle has the basket weave checking and the upper rifle the point checkering, right back to where the current Wbys are.

He must have made quite a few rifles before the Mark V because you often see Wbys for sale on the Mausers.

Places like www.weatherbyman.com of often have them.

Those rifles you have might be worth more than you think. Weatherbyman.com has two 220 Wby Rockets on FN Mausers for sale at $4500US each.

Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike375:
He must have made quite a few rifles before the Mark V because you often see Wbys for sale on the Mausers. Mike

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Approximately 9700 Weatherbys were made with FN Mauser actions between 1949-1963, in Finland and Southgate. The Mark V was introduced in 1958. About 185 left hand rifles were built between 1955-1959 on Mathieu actions. Approximately 2200 378s were made on Schultz & Larson actions between 1955-1962. A few 378s & 460s were made on Brevex magnum Mauser actions.
Weatherby Imperial scopes were made in Germany by Hertel & Reuss from 1954-early 1970s.

fla30/06,

Thanks for that, he sure made some. Amazing how many 378s were done on the Schultz & Larsons.

Do you know who made the Wby scope following the Imperial. I think that was some cheaper Japanese scope.

Do you know if the 416 Wby is as dead in the real world as it appears on the forums. The fellow I dealt with in the custom shop was of the opinon that the 416s were being bought almost exclusively for big game hunting and the 378 and 460 (and of course the 30/378) had the toy market all sown up.

Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike375:
Do you know who made the Wby scope following the Imperial. I think that was some cheaper Japanese scope. Mike

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The Premier line of scopes was introduced in 1972, made by the Asia Optical Company in Japan, to compete with competitors' constantly centered reticle scopes.

I have long admired fine work by craftsmen, irrespective of the trendiness of the style involved. The Weatherbys shown are truly worthy of respect for the effort and passion they represent. I also used to admire Colt-Sauer for their classic appearance, plus Winslow and Champlin Arms bolt action rifles of somewhat extreme styles. Not available anymore, and not to everyone's liking (the two events are not unrelated), but still worth some admiration for the level of achievement they required.

Of course, there are classic styles that have endured better, and these too deserve our attention and a drop or two of envy - the pre-64 model 70, G&H rifles, Dumoulin, and F N Mauser are my personal favorites.

Subtle the Herb Klein rifles weren't. But beautifully styled for their time, and the apex of a school of custom guns that has passed. Let's enjoy them for what they were.

Mike: Thanks for the great story regarding Roy Weatherby. Mine is nowhere near as exciting. Int eh good ol days before Clinton ruined our armed forces, I took an "instrumnet check" cross country to California. I rented a car, went to the Weatherby store in South Gate to buy myself a Weatherby. This was in 1991 and they were having a clearance sale on discontinued models that included the Ultramarks. Well I wanted a 257 so I asked "how many do you have back there" and the Salesman said about 8. "Bring them out" I voiced. About an hour later and some convincing that my FFL was good I waliked out with what is probably my favorite rifle. A highly figured and dark "marble-cake" Ultramark. And boy does it shoot! Anyhow, regarding the Crown Custom, why do you say to "build one" rather than buy the standard one. More options? jorge

Jorge

If you to the Wby website and custom shop and select Build a Custom Gun you go through various stages and you will see in the checkering pattern drop down list Crown Carving.

When go through the engraving you will see at the bottom Crown Custom grading and also Crown Custom engraving for the rings. You will also see Crown Custom engraving for the rings is much cheaper than grade 3 engraving for the rings listed further up.

But even if you only select point checkering, rosewood gripmand forendtip the stock will cost about $2150US PLUS wood. Now consider a complete Mark V stock ready to go is about $600

Also, with build a custom gun the optin of Kreiger cut rifling barrel and bolt face squaring, lug lapping etc is a much better deal than going via product upgrade.

But in the next couple of day I am going to phone up Keven Nunes who I dealt with for my 378s and will clarify a few things as the website is not really complete.

However, one thing you need to check with Wby and this might only apply in Australia. As soon as you move away from a catologued rifle, that is, any rilfe where there is no picture, Wby no longer gives the same deal to the Wby importer, which in Australia is very big.

As an example, from memory all steel bottom metal is listed at $295US but to have it instead of the alloy adds a lot more to the orice of the rifle because of the deal to the import agent. Whether this applies to dealers in America I do not know.

I suspect it might and I base that on the service Weatherby was giving us, more profit than usual.

Personally I am wary of the standard Crown Customs because the couple of I have seen in Australia are basically decorated Mark V Deluxes.

I want to add a 3rd 378 but at the level that is above what I have Keven do for me. As far as I am aware at this stage do what amounts to a basic Deluxe in general appearance (point checkering, no engraving or in lays) if I pick the Krieger cut rifle barrel, the $2150 French blank, all steel bottom metal the rifle will be about the same price as a 300 Wby Crown Custom.

When I phone him up I will ask about the situation in the US of A as it might be different.

In a nutshell, the impression I gained was that as soon as you moved away from catologued rifles then the service went right up but so did the price. For example, it worked out that an Accumark 30/378 with the option of all steel bottom metal would have cost me a fair bit more than a standard 378 Deluxe.

By the way, you can do a 30/378 or 338/378 in Deluxe style.

I am phoning up in the next few days to get some firm pricing so I can decide my next purchase. And I can tell you that if it is like last time I will feel like I am the only customer.

Last time I when I said to Kevin lets go with the upgraded 378s I asked him could he get the prices to Nioa (the agent) and also ask them to send the price that would apply at the gunshop I had decided to buy from. Would you believe in half an hour I get an email from Keven telling me to ring the gun shop all the pricing is there from the agent.

Anyway, I should be able to report back in a few days because I will get then do a price for a 378 Crown Custom via the Build a Custom Gun.

Just as a side note, my best shooting mate is about to embark on the same sort of journey with Dakota so it will be interesting to see what Dakota service is like although it will be a while before we get feedback as he is going to buy a blank first and send it to them. I don't think Wby will do that but I will ask.

Mike