I got some great feedback on Bongo hunting in Cameroon from a previous post,but what about C.A.R. doesn't anyone hunt Bongo there any more?

Dave,

There are still several companies that hunt Bongo in the Central African Republic.

Aouk Sangha Safaris- Boetie Bothma
Safaria
Club Faune
Haut Chinko Safaris/Rudy Lubin

Andre Roux also hunts there, but I don't know his company name. There are a few other French PHs/companies that operate there.

All of the above companies have very good reputations and their information is available through SCI, The Hunting Report, and several agents here in the US.

The bongo hunts in the southeast of the country are on par with most of the Cameroon operations, although the CAR operations don't take as many sitatunga as some of the Cameroon operations. These areas in this region of the CAR are literally right across the river from some of the hunting blocks in Cameroon.

I do believe that the CARs main draw is the Lord Derby Eland. The country produces more 50 inch eland year in and year out than anywhere else.

Best regards,
John Barth

Alain Lefoul has an excellent reputation for the bongo hunts he provides in the CAR.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Alain Lefoul has an excellent reputation for the bongo hunts he provides in the CAR.

Dan, I think the correct spelling is Lefol. Last time I talked to him he was considering his options after Chad where a few bad experiences had him looking for new hunting grounds. How long has been operating hunts in CAR?

I would check the State Department site on hysterical pronouncements of DOOM. They had one on CAR in December. I talked to Rudy Lubin at SCI quite a bit and he says nothing to worry about. He said the French send in the military when there is unrest and they put the trouble makers to rest. (If only the Brits would do as much!) If your really interested talk to Rudy. As an aside, his wife runs African Sporting Gazette.

Alain Lefol has been ejected from the Chad and from his area in NorthEast CAR by troubles. In the South of Bria, North East of Zaire (Belgian Congo) last year he made bowshoot a record Bongo.
Last month the CAR rebels and the Sudanese irregular forces have been definitely defeated by ............say the joined African forces. Consequently the whole CAR territory can be considered safe.
Last year (january 2006) on the Kotto safari 5 millions acres I hunted the Bongo but failed because of a virus. Anyhow my cousin hunting with me easily succeeded. And only with FAIR CHASE, not using the awfully efficient and shockingly abominable mean, the condamned using of pigmies' hounds. This dubious way, the Bongo has no chance and many females will stupidly mistakenly die.

But I think the CAR is not for demanding American hunters for conditions are too harsh. There are few roads, very little population and little comfort. The far more populated Cameroon is more comfortable. The CAR remains the Africa of lore as told in ancient books.
I was extremely puzzled by the article "the heart of Africa" by Cam Greig in the Tau issue of (excellent) the(excellent) African Hunter magazine. The author has explored the area North of where I have hunted twice, the territory of the Haute Kotto that was run by the famous Daniel Henriot (a neighbour) along with Rudi Lubin and Jacques Lemeaux. In the 90ies they have been ejected from this rich territory by hordes of Sudanese poacher-warriors. At this moment the hushest hunters of the world were clients (kings, princes and presidents) and they could save this area.Up now this territory far from any road, in fact there are no roads any longer, Daniel's road was overgrown by tropical flora. But this territory is sort of a private hunting territory for the rare villages around and especially for hundreds of out-of-control Sudaneses toting Kalashnikov and not shy using them. Even well accomodated outfits suffers from poaching and sub-guerilla and diamond miners.
The CAR remains a rare paradise of wild Africa, counting less than 4 millions inhabitants mostly urban dwellers on a territory as large as Texas. The only mean of transportation is the pricy airplane, count 2 000$.
A couple of weeks ago, Boghossian on this forum, and his father weren’t enthralled by their hunting on Kotto safari outfit, things went not as smoothly as planned.
Definitely, the CAR is a country for adventurers.
Undoubtly BONGOMAN in the CAR is Jacques damn bongo Lemeaux and guaranties fair chase.

Jean hit the nail right on the head and his experience in CAR is very clear and his words of wisdom are spot on.

CAR is a very remote country and is only for those who do not mind a tough hunt with less comfort. CAR is a cheaper country than Cameroon, but that is only because they have to have attractive prices in order to get hunters to go there for a tougher hunt. CAR may produce more 50" Eland per say than Cameroon, but the success rate in CAR can not match that of Cameroon. Cameroon does also produce 50" plus Eland every year, but is there really that big of a difference between a 48" or 49" Eland? I would rather go to a place where I took a 48" Eland that looks the same as a 50" and be happy with my success with a beautiful animal. Cameroon offers very comfortable accommodations with the best success rate by far. Cameroon is more expensive if you go with a top outfitter there, but you will get your Eland or Bongo. CAR is a crap shoot and you may have to go back again.

Every client I have sent to CAR returned and said that they would never go back to that country. Every client I have sent to Cameroon either has gone back again or said they would go back again to get the other species in either the forrest or Savannah as they enjoyed the success and the comfortable accommodations.

In Cameroon with the outfitter we use they have been 100% on Eland for the last 9 years and 100% on Bongo for the last 5 years. No outfitter in CAR can state any success rate close to this.

I have been to Cameroon and will be back there again this year as I really enjoyed this country and what it had to offer. I enjoyed it so much I am taking my wife with me this time. I would never even think about taking a wife along to CAR if that says anything.

It all comes down to personal choice though and what each person prefers when hunting. If you like a tough adventure with lots of walking and bugs then CAR will be great. If you like comfortable accommodations and easier hunting with high success rate, then pay the higher price and go to Cameroon.

Adam,
thanks for the validation of the post above yours. For those of us who are considering a hunt for LDE or Bongo, could roughly outline the expected costs? I have seen numbers all over the board and get the prices between CAR and Cameroon mixed up.
I am not looking for a quote, just a generalized estimate of the costs.

thanks,

Safari 12
Adam?

I think the CAR is more expensive than Cameroon.
Only one outfitter in Cameroon is really expensive, Guerini, but with him the success is certain and the accomodation spotless.
I went twice to the CAR the costs were 36 000 $ and
28 000$. I think other outfitters in the CAR may be more expensive. Kotto safari is one of the cheapest.
In Cameroon one can hunt for less than 20 000, IMHO.

Jean, You may be right these days as I really do not deal with CAR any longer as I prefer Cameroon. Once you add in all the extra fees with charters etc. CAR may be more these days. I have seen prices in CAR for $30,000 - $40,000 plus charters, license etc. which would then put it up higher than Cameroon. I will only offer CAR to a client who says that is where they want to go and specifically say they do not want to go to cameroon for some reason. If I do send a client to CAR it would be with Club Faune, but so far 99% of my clients go to Cameroon.

In Cameroon I only book and deal with Guerrini as you mentioned he is the best of the best and have been working with him for the last 6 years and have never had a client not take their Eland or Bongo. In Cameroon the hunts are 30,000 Euro plus 3,000 Euro for license and dip/pack and shipping to Paris. Then of course the trophy fees. For the Bongo hunts this price also includes the round trip charter. For the Savannah hunts the charter is not inlcuded if one decides to charter. You can get from Douala to Gaoura on domestic flight, but these flights are very unreliable and most clients choose to pay the extra to charter.

As you mentioned in your post with Faro West success is certain and why it is worth paying the price to go to cameroon, which is not much of a difference these days.

Dogcat, if you are considering a LDE hunt then think no further than Cameroon if you want your money worth. There are some outfitters in Cameroon who offer these hunts for $25,000, but if you want the best of the best you will be paying as mentioned above 33,000 Euro ($43,317) plus trophy fees, charter. When it is all said and done plan on around $55,000 with trophy fees etc., but at least you will be paying trophy fees for animals you have taken. In CAR it may be a little cheaper, but you may not get your LDE which would mean you would have to go back and then be paying twice as much as you would have if you went to the best place first.

Some might say I am biased with Faro West, and they are right, as they have the best areas in Cameroon and offer the best hunts in Cameroon hands down. No one can match the success rate or the over all qualiity. I have learned all of this from many years in the past using other outfitters and can now be biased on an outfitter that I know will produce for my clients and am not shy to admit it. Too many other stories from CAR that would just make you stay home. CAR likes to brag about 50" Eland, but they do not like stating the facts on their actually success rates and the difficulty of the hunts there.

I am not saying there are no good outfitters in CAR as there are. All the names mentioned above are great outfitters and do their best for their clients. It is just a simple fact that CAR does not have a high success rate and is just a lot more difficult hunting with a bad government that can turn upside down overnight. The outfitters are good, just a hard country to operate in that can not contend with Cameroon IMHO.

Even as a competitor offering hunts in both Cameroon and the CAR I agree with most of what Adam said. The operation he represents, Faro West, has an excellent track record on both eland and bongo. The travel logistics of getting in and out of Cameroon are also much easier by comparison than CAR. And their camps are air-conditioned, etc.

And the hunting for both species is I believe a bit easier. I remember Charlie Goldenberg with Premiere Safaris who also represents Faro West use to state that even his clients who could not walk and were not in good shape easily got their animals. There is no doubt that Faro West is an excellent operation, as well as many others like Mayo Oldiri, Ngong Safaris, etc.

The only thing that I would disagree with is the statement that the CAR does not have a high success rate. It is not the 100% that Faro West has had, but overall with most of the outfitters I figure they are probably at the 80-90% mark, which I think is a very good rate for a physically demanding hunt. Several of the outfitters in CAR do have 100% seasons,just not 10 of them in a row which is very impressive.

The CAR is for the adventurous like others have said. It is for those that don't care if the camp is air-conditioned or not. I have sent clients there who enjoy both the forest and the savannah hunts very much. And we have had several clients go back to the exact same areas (guys that took their trophies on the first trip)just for the experience of another hunt. I have never had a client say they would never return, although a few have said they do not like the capitol Bangui. Others loved it, and the history of the country.

If you are in decent shape you should have a high success rate, and odds are you will get the eland/bongo, but some don't. If you are in bad shape you will struggle, but even we have had clients with disabilities take their trophies. There is a certain amount of luck in all hunting.

As for the prices, they are all over the place. CAR use to be much more expensive, but due to the recent political climate more guys have had to become more competetive. Outfitters in other countries have realized this as well and in recent years raised their prices based on the instability of CAR.

Those considering hunts in CAR should pay attention to travel warnings, but remember there is also a travel warning for Zimbabwe. Speak to your outfitters- if they don't think it is safe to come they will tell you that. I know almost all of the good operations in the CAR have sufferred due to these warnings, but I don't believe any of the outfitters have had any problems whatsoever with any of their hunts this year. We have had several clients return just in the last few weeks from great hunts in the Savannah.

I do believe several people go to both countries with higher expectations in certain aspects than they should have. These are not the full bag safaris that you can experience in Tanzania, Zambia, Zimbabwe and elsewhere. Fuller bag hunts were more common in the past all over central Africa. Just because the animals are on the trophy fee list does not mean a client will have a good opportunity to hunt them, or in some cases even see them (you don't see much in the forest anyway, you hear much more than you see when there is only 10 to 20 foot of visibility). Forest Sitatunga seem to be getting harder and harder to get all over the place, as well as some of the buffalo species. I tell prospective clients to focus on the main animal and set their expectations accordingly. No one should expect to go into the forest and shoot their bongo, a sitatunga, buffalo, giant forest hog, etc. and collect all the duiker species. Client who have experienced the best success on the other game are generally those who take their main specie early in their hunt and can spend more time focusing on the other animals. Hunters who only take their main specie later in the hunt generally come home with fewer trophies.

I hope everyone will take this in the manner it is intended. Info for both countries, and not one versus the other. One county may be right for one guy, but not for the other. Some like adventure and a challenging hunt and some don't, others prefer comfortable camps and 100% success rates (everyone likes this). Some people just like hunting different countries. A lot of the demand for CAR is people who have already hunted Cameroon and want to go somewhere else.

If you want a great hunt and the least risk possible call Adam and Mark and book with Faro West. It is a very safe bet. There are other operations there as well that are very good (mentioned above). But don't discount CAR altogether as it does offer some great hunting and a very cool cultural experience as well.

If someone does do the CAR bongo hunt down in the southeast, definitely make plans to spend a day in the Dzanga-Sangha Reserve (http://www.worldwildlife.org/expeditions/car/photo_album.html) It is a World Wildlife Fund project in the middle of the rain forest (right next to some of the hunting blocks). They have a giant natural open area (saline)in the middle of the forrest and on any given day you will see bongo, forest elephant, sitatunga, amazing birds, etc. It is also the only place in Africa you can go out and spend time with the only habituated Lowland Gorrillas. It is an amazing experience when you get near them and they charge you beating their chest. If you don't sit down and take a submissive posture (no eye contact and act like your eating the foliage) they keep coming. The big silverback charged to 4 feet from me when we first made contact. After that intitial contact and he asserts his dominance they calm down quite fast, and you spend the rest of the day right there in and amongst them. To me this one of the top 3 highlights of all my African trips.

Best regards,
John Barth

We are talking about two of the greatest hunting trophies in the world, Lord Derby Eland and Bongo.

First I have to completely disagree with jbderunz about hunting bongo with dogs. Through the use of the dogs countless numbers of female bongos are saved because the sex can be better determined. Without the dogs most and I mean way over 50% of hunters in the forest would be lucky to even see a flash of orange. Hell most hunters have a tough time just making a full day of tracking. I have bayed 17 bongos and most have been after at least 5 hours of tracking.

Faro West is without a doubt the best Lord Derby operation in the world. Pierre Guerrini is a close friend of mine but even if he wasn't 100% success for 9 years with 90 Derby's taken is truly amazing!! But where he really shines is the additional animals hunters take besides the Derby. Many other areas in Cameroon and all of CAR do not have the high population of the other species.

In the forest the most important thing is the quality of the ph and even more so how he has trained his hunting team and the support people. Geoffroy DeGentille who operates with Mayo Oldiri has the best forest operation. His team is well trained and is best able to help a hunter who is not in Forest Shape!

Mike

Club faune is a fine outfitter for many places in Africa. They have high standards and aren’t cheap but they count among the best success rates and smooth hunting.
In the CAR, Safaria is high class as wel.
Christophe Lemee, Michel Fusy, Daniel Koudoume and Rudy Lubin are very good too.
One forgets some splendid areas rent by a single guy and who is stunningly performing, the trouble being that this sort of guys don’t advertise and hunt for themselves and friends and biz clients but refuse paying clients most of the time.
Jacques Lemaux is a master concerning fair chase of Bongo, but one hears lots of praises but no way to know how to book with him. He uses tents and hunt from highstands close to salines.

About the quality of LDE’s trophy, the CAR offers better trophies, no doubt about, but not easy to get. Guerini explored the CAR for more LDE. Don’t know whether he found something edible for Americans.
Don’t know all the obtained trophies of 2007. Lefol got a fantastic in the CAR.
In Cameroon, the reputable Guy Betaille got a record DBE : the problem being that as he has measured accordingly to SCI spinning around the horns, one cannot compare with the others that are measured according to Rowland W: straight
In fact there is no magic. The Cameroon is one of the most developed countries in Western and central Africa, along with Senegal. They have a great network of roads. Hunting territories (in Savannah, the North) as well are criss-crossed with trails. Consequently one has ever a vast choice between sub-areas to be hunted. The wind direction is not an issue.
Look at Guerini’s area : a tight network of good trails. Should You be outsmarted by a herd of Elands, one can ( with the car ) get round them and hunt this herd once again.
Not so in the CAR. There are few roads and fewer trails. Count on 2 approachs per day, hardly more. You cannot see more than 5% of the present game.
Look at the main road (the sole) between CAR and Sudan
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i242/larcher2/mainroad.jpg



Adam and John are spot on. One can discute prices and where to find the best elands.

MLindsay

My English is not as good as I wish and I have trouble to explain what I mean.
Concerning the Bongo, there are disreputable unfair ways to hunt and hunting with dogs is considered unfair. I know of many persons who never would shake hand with me should I shoot a Bongo with dogs. That’s considered just like shooting treed leopards or night shooting. Let alone shooting from a car or close to a waterhole.
Tracking the bongo without hounds is almost impossible, for in the real jungle no approach is really stealthy …………and shooting an orange streak is reprehensible and blameworthy, not to mention mistakenly shooting an Irish redhead mother in law. One chance on 2 to shoot a female. As shooting females and not fully grown males are against the law ………..and harmonious population developpement……………

One has to know what one wants. Is a PH a good one because he has a high success rate or because You might reasonably shoot decent and record trophies. There are many ways to improve the success rate and the best are the use of the car, the second the use of hounds, the third mastering ambushing either from highstand or saline or bait (not waterhole of course).
When fair chasing by spooring to catch up and eventually tracking down the game one gets immense satisfactions ; the quality of the trophy or the success rate are no issues.
Personally I want fair chase.
In my opinion one cannot get away from Guerini if a non-adventurous and fully-successful savannah hunt is desired.
I have never heart of Geoffroy DeGentille who operates with Mayo Oldiri (only 250 000 acres), and I cannot gulp down that He could be the best. One can say that Club faune the agent is among the best to catter success rate demanding hunters. In the same area, South Cameroon, there is an alive legend, Yannick Pelleteray who can easy dispute the Golden medal, I don’t say that he is the best. Guy Betaille in North Cameroon is the idol of the world class trophy hunters………….but try to book with him………I bet You’ll have to wait for a long time.
IMO the bests PHs worked unknown. They don’t advertise and their agendas are full.

Lucky that we don't evoke lion and elephant.

back from Kotto safari in the CAR

This is the best thread (including links) I've read since coming here. I have one friend who went to Cameroon for bongo and LDE some years ago but he's not a very good reporter and at best a middling photographer. Now I have a very clear image of what it was about. Thank you all.

Thanks Wayne

Now I know where to go when I'll visit New York

damned bongo

great post John and Jean. I agree with everything and sounds like we are pretty much all on the same page with these two countries. It can be hard trying to compare these two countries as they are very different in many ways even though we hunt the same animals.

Jean, check your PMs.

I have a friend coming from Tours to visit tomorrow. He has a cheese company I am involved with. www.fromages.com

Well jbderunz we will have to agree to disagree. In my opinion hunting bongo with dogs is absolutely ok, just as hunting quail,pigs etc with dogs is ok. It is possible to stalk to within shooting distance of a bongo in the forest but it is very difficult. I have done it twice but both times it was not a trophy.

There are many people who have a very pure idea on what a forest hunt should be. Cameron Greig and I have talked several times that theoretically only well fit people that can track the bongo and make the shot truly deserve one. We think the animal is that tremendous. However with a good ph many people take one. What is a ph's job? In my opinion one of the phs responsibilities is to get his client in shooting position on the animal. Geoffroy in my opinion is the best not only because of his hunting ability but also his ability to get a physically challenged hunters in position. He does this through gps mapping, radio communication with trackers and vehicle etc. Now in the pure form using these electronic methods is deemed unfair but he has gotten clients bongo that could not walk long distances. Who am I to tell this man he took his bongo unfairly.

Mike

have hunted cameroon two times and collected different species from the rainforest. 2elephant, giant forest hog, sitatunga, 2 bongos (with dogs) blue, bay, peter´s ducker and my friends still will shake my hand although I only tracked bongo with the pygmes for miles and miles in the rainforest day after day looking for a big old bongo. With the help of the dogs in the last hundred meters we bayed many until we found true trophies. in the way we got charged 2 times by bongos and we only shoot when we where certain a big old male was bayed. not easy when you have to crawl in through thick bicoro. so please do not judge so quickly if you do not know what kind of hunt you are talking about.
Apart from that, excellent report. Thanks for taking the time to write it. I hope I have the ability to write such a report when I come back from Cameroon this time

Necromancy.

NECROMANCY. 1: conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events


That's what i thought it meant, just had to check, Insane Clown Posse had a song or album with something to do about the word

great thread, i might be influenced to go after a LDE or Bongo

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Necromancy.

Necroposting

Mike, looks like you finally found the key to your liquor cabinet? :-)

You mean, you have to lock your liquor cabinets. Damn........

OMG Another dead thread revived for no apparent reason!!!

All right. How can you guys tell what year the post was written other that a mention in the body of the post?

Tom

quote:

Originally posted by twoseventy:
How can you guys tell what year the post was written other that a mention in the body of the post?

How about Congo Bongo?
Looked like Jim Shockey had fun hunt there