The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Best Peep sights on a DGR?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| one of us |
I have used peep sights on several borrowed DGR rifles. I never had to pick out a design for my own. I have used a williams Peepsight which was durable and very accurate with it's micro click adjustment. It also had different size apature sizes. I also have an Ashley outdoors peep on my 375HH that fit's on the warne bases. It to is very durable but not as adjustable. For a DGR backup rifle I need something durable as a first priority and with a finely adjustable windage and elevation as a lower priority. If you guys are using this type of sight on a rifle let me have your opinions. I am going to put a peep site on my Lott and need some ideas to look into. jj ------------------ | ||
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one of us |
JJ I hope somebody answers this, as I plan to do the same. I called Warne yesterday, but they said they quit making them (I asked about one for the CZ) for lack of demand. I looked through Brownell's catalog and didn't find anything that appeared that it would fit the CZ dovetail. Somebody must know of something! | |||
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Stick with the Williams...Curious fingers cannot change the POI on that one and that counts a whole bunch in my book!!!! I like the little Talley or the Brockman, with the Talley R&B set up..... ------------------ | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JJHACK: JJHACK, Sorry but I don't understand the lack of adjustment on the Ashley Peep. I use one on my CZ550 and it has total left right and up down adjustment. I used the one for a Marlin lever action, shortened the base up and had the gunsmith drill and tap a second hole for mounting. I also used the peep with the thicker ring as with my eyes the ghost ring was a little indesicive. Wildwest Guns have a ppep that they use on their Co-Pilot rifles that looks pretty tough but is ugly. They are at www.wildwestguns.com 470 Mbogo | |||
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JJ I am going with the Brockman system on my DGR. It is not done yet but I will give you a report in a month or two when it gets back. Looked like a great setup to me. It was one of the major selling points for me with mr Brockmans rifles. Check it out on his website. Good luck "D" | |||
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Does anyone have experience with the NECG aperture sights? I have a friend with a Williams rear peep and an NECG fibre optic front bead. This is on a rimfire and works very well for small game in subdued light. I have not, however, had any exposure to their rear aperture units. ------------------ | |||
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Holmes, My NECG catalog does not show a receiver sight, is this something new?? They show one for the EAW mounts.... JJ, This set up is perminent setup and cannot be knocked off or damaged short of total destruction of the action....Ideal for a PH and an iron sight only backup gun...Based on the KISS principle. ------------------ | |||
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Ray your correct that it needs to be tough and simple. I know the Williams sights I have seen will not work for my needs. I think the Ashley outdoors sight is tough enough as I have one on my 375HH but I do know several guys with the exact set up you describe. I would like to have the durability first and formost, no exceptions! However there is a part of me that wants some level of precision in this too. The Ashley Outdoors peep does not have the fine adjustment that a Williams does but who needs that kind of adjustment for DGR? I am sure that John Ricks will come up with some top notch options for me. Right now I'm leaning towards the Ashley peep, I have heard they make one with Ears now too, but as my barrel will not be here until July I have the time to do exactly what I am now with all you folks, and the advice I can find here.jj ------------------ | |||
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Ray, You are correct.... I just checked their web site and they do not feature a receiver sight. Eyes gettin' older....! ------------------ | |||
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| <Fat Bastard> |
Ray, there may be hope for me yet. I was thinking of doing the same setup on a shotgun (if I understand your description). Do you have to tap the base, or just drill 2 mounting holes? And the .125" hole is the aperture, drilled through the vertical part, yes? The main difference in my idea was to machine the 90-degree angle (I admit bending would be easier). The only drawback I can see in bending is the minimum bend radius will force the aperture to be higher. | ||
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Moderator |
I have no experience with open sights and dangerous game, so this can be taken for what its worth. I have fired guns with a number of different styles of peep sights. I did most of this shooting before I even cared what brand of sights were on the guns. I recently bought an Ashley Ghost Ring for my .45/70. Not only is it the simplest to set up and use, I have found it to be every bit as accurate for me as others I have used. I am pretty impressed. FWIW, Canuck | |||
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| <Pumba> |
JJ, I agree with Ray. Stick with the Williams peep sight. They sell several models. Some are receiver mounted through specially drilled holes. Others are made to use the rear scope base holes in the receiver. All of them have precise adjustments and are very reliable. Williams also has a web site that you can refer to: www.williamsgunsight.com
[This message has been edited by Pumba (edited 06-22-2001).] | ||
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Fat Bastard, Your right on the money, don't bend a piece of metal, machine one...The best one I built was nothing more than a scope base I milled out and dovetailed the made an apature with a dovetail and tapped it in. That gave me windage and I filed the high partridge sight down to zerol... Another time I just dovetailed the rear square bridge on a square bridge mauser and made a apature with a dovetail that fit it... I like this set up best of all because it is always there and working and can't be moved without a 7 lb. sledge and a punch. ------------------ | |||
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| <R. A. Berry> |
I like the Williams and nobody has mentioned the Lyman receiver sights that are much the same, but look a little more rugged to me. I have some of each on rifles like 30-30, 450 Marlin, 458 Win., etc. I have an Ashley on a 444 Marlin Winchester 1894 Timber carbine. It's a beauty compared to the Lyman and Williams. I don't think the NECG website shows it all if you can't find their receiver sights. They make them to fit onto the integral Ruger scope base and that is a daisy. I have one that I use on the Ruger No.1 416 Rigby, and can switch to my Talley Ruger base on the 35 Whelen Pre-64 Winchester with a fold down rear sight. Just a matter of getting the front sight height right. NECG also makes them to fit Weaver style bases. With all of these NECG receiver sights you have the option of switching from scope to peep that goes on the scope base, as long as you have the fold down rear sight, or no rear open sight. ------------------ | ||
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Jim, what did Potie have on his .458? Wasn't that a custom made sight? I just heard part of the conversation, but if I recall he used a Williams or something and sighted in with that, then took the Williams to a machinist to have the "position" of the aperture exactly copied in a solid piece of steel much as you and Ray are describing. Voila, tough as they come as it is immovable. [This message has been edited by Jim in Idaho (edited 06-22-2001).] | |||
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Your memory is good Jim, He did have an adjustable sight which he was comfortable with as far as Aim point. Then he took it off and had a block of steel machined to nearly the exact description of Rays idea. This is a good idea but eliminates further load developement to a degree. I think once sighted in with a hot load and a 500 grain bullet, softer loads for other uses might be out in left field? For the distance and conditions I am going to use this, bench rest accuracy is not needed. However the fella building it will probably make it so that it will be bench rest perfect. The dove tailed bases are an interesting idea and would then allow a completly different sight for 400 grian bullets if that's what was needed for a specific plains game hunt? I can be happy using this solely for it's intended function, however I like a bit of flexability too. Hmmmmm is that asking to much?jj | |||
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JJHACK....You could be over trying to over-design this as you suspect. The field I work in is lousy with engineers who tend to "over-engineer" simple field projects. I have an expression that fits..."Don't measure it with a micronmeter if you are going to mark it with a grease pencil and then cut it with a chainsaw". If you are looking for something simple and stout, keep it simple and stout. | |||
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RA, The Lyman is still available, but the quality is gone downhill, of course lots of the old ones are still out there or Brownells offers the Whitchataw that is a beefed up Lyman copy... My problem with the Lymans and Redfields is the standing adjustment knobs are too much of a temtation for the indigenous species of Africa, there curiosity cannot keep them from twisting the little knobs!!!! ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
Just brainstorming, but I wonder if something along the lines of the protected peep sights used on battle rifles might be useful. I'm no expert on battle rifles so I'm not sure which rifles had which peeps, but they basically consisted of a decently adjustable sight protected by ears on either side. I think the P-17 had something like this? The original Ruger Mini-14,not the Ranch rifle, has a somewhat similar arrangement, at least the aperture itself was fairly protected. I have no idea where you would get something like that and maybe it is over engineering but figured I would throw the idea out on the table. It would probably be very expensive to take say an Ashley and machine a base with protective ears around it. Now that I think about it, how come open sighted hunting rifles never came with the ear protected front sight that was standard on the M-1, M-14 and M-16? Seems a lot more useful and practical than a hood. | |||
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Jim in Id. You can get such a peep sight from Jim Brockman in Gooding Idaho at 208-934-5050... I like a heavy peep as opposed to ears that block out the area, and tend to distract me, but thats a quirk on my part... ------------------ | |||
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| <R. A. Berry> |
I just looked at www.newenglandcustomgun.com and easily found the peep sights. ------------------ | ||
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| <holtz> |
JJ I have a Brockman on my Lott which is mounted into the Talley base. In many respects they are a wonderful sight, but also may have disadvantages - depending upon your eyesight. If mounted up front it may be too far away, if on the back of the rear mount it may be too close, or interfere with the bolt handle. Mine is mounted on the front end of the rear mount but overhangs about 1/4" into the loading port - which could be a problem under some circumstances. It was later that I had the opportunity to handle a rifle equipped with NECG's "See Through Rear Sight", and wow! It's a skeletonized express V sight offering most of the advantages of both a an aperture and a traditional express sight. You might want to check it out. My Lott will be so equipped in the near future. Steve | ||
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Holtz, I don't see how the Brockmon could be "too close or interfer with the bolt"...I have seen them on, and have installed a number of them on rifles and they are in the same position as any peep would be, and in the same position as the Talley peep.If yours is forward then you have the base on backwards, apparantly on purpose I assume. What make of gun do you have? Do you want to sell the Brockmon bases..? ------------------ | |||
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| <10point> |
Small world, before I just signed on I had, just, put on a set of Ashley GR's on my .450 Marlin. I havnt shot them yet but they sure "feel right". They are also fully adjustable for windage and elevation, tho having to actually turn the peep to change elevation is kind of strange, hey for a DG rifle whats the big deal if your a inch low at 200 yrds ? I do have a concern tho, even tho I know basically nothing about DG rifles. Is a Peep sight the right kind of sight for a chargeing buff, even a ghost ring with its large aperture ? Or could you aquire the target more quickly with a leaf type rear sight, like the Ashley Express ?..............10 | ||
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| <holtz> |
Ray, Thank you for your comments. There is no question that you have forgotten more about rifles than I will ever know, and I thank you for the wealth of good information you have provided myself, and other, over the year. I have learned much from you. But give us a break, Ray. Not everyone is the village idiot. The fact that you "don't see" does not mean it ain't so. Consider that in a world of 37.5 zillion people, there just might be one person, somewhere, who has had experiences that differ from yours. It really could happen! Yes, Brockman mounted the sight on the screw end of the the rear mount. Yes, the mount can be installed in either direction. Yes, when mounted with sight forward it overhangs the loading port. Yes, when mounted to the rear it interrupts the bolt handle (on a pre-64), about 1/8" would need to be lopped off the corner of the sight. Yes, Brockman has changes his design over the years. Yes, when I ordered mine he said it would be the first of a new "modified" design. Yes, I'll bet he has made changes since then. Yes, I'm sure your experiences with the sight is exactly as stated. Yes, if a 'smith of my acquaintance who already has dibs on the bases and sight changes his mind, I'll e-mail and you can have it (them) at my cost (of about 3 yrs. ago), with Brockman's hand written receipt enclosed. Brockman's pop-up aperture sight is an engineering marvel (don't try to take it apart). But, if your order one, first determine how you want it mounted, and what size you want the aperture to be. If you are over 40, your personal eyesight will be the determining factor. Steve
[This message has been edited by holtz (edited 07-01-2001).] | ||
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| <10point> |
Is a "peep sight" the best sight to use to quickly target chargeing dangerous game , or , Is a Leaf type sight better for this purpose ? How about just a large "Bead type" front sight and nothing else ? Or, even better, a shotgun type sight where both the aperture, and, the front sight are way forward on the barrel. Jim the ghost rings come with two sizes of aperture, do you use the large one or the smal one ?.......thanx..........10 | ||
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| one of us |
Holtz, Sorry if I offended, I have no way of knowing your experience as the internet hides these things pretty well, and I was just attempting to help you out and made a few suggestions as an option to your spending more money to fix something that may or may not have been broke... ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
10 Point, The peep sight with the ghost ring, basically is the use of the front sight only as the eye automatically centers the front sight so it is probably the fastest of all sights, maybe The traditional V is pretty hard to beat and I personally like them as well as a peep. A low power scope is as fast as anything until things get really up close and personal then I wouldn't have one... I don't use any sight from 25 yds. in, I just shoot instintively, point shooting is a practiced art and extremely accurate at 25 yds.( one hole groups ) and a little beyond if your skills are honed (say 50 yds. and 3" groups)......point shooting with a scope mounted on the rifle is impossible for all practical purposes, it throughs every thing out of kilter...at least for me. ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
Ray: When I put on the Sako peep sight on the Safari, I see the standing rear V sight and the front sight bead all lined up perfectly. If one was trying to make their own peep sight, it would seem that once one got the rifle sighted in with the front and rear sights, it would be relatively easy to whittle away on a home made (machined) or store bought, for that matter, peep of whatever configuration until it lines up with the rear and front sights. Then if the rear sight folds down, you're in business. But I think the most important part of this DGR stuff is what you have stated, point and shoot. If the stock fits, when you throw up the rifle your eyes should be aligned with the sights anyway, so why bother with a peep sight (on a DGR)? I have the big white flip up bead oredered from Brownell's but it really shouldn't matter, as when I look down the rifle, the sights are lined up, even if it is almost impossible for me to see that current little bitty bead. And at 25 yds. it doesn't matter. Will | |||
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| one of us |
I agree Will, but I do like sights at 50 yds and beyond, peep or V no matter.... ------------------ | |||
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| <10point> |
Ray before I put these Ashley GR's on the Marlin the only "peep sight's" ive ever used have been on a M16. I havnt shot with the Ashley's yet but they do "feel good". Im just not sure they would be quicker/safer then a traditional leaf sight for a DG rifle. I dont anticipate useing the rifle as a DG rifle unless I go fishing in Alaska, Yellowstone, or sit in a stand for a Black Bear. I'll tell you this tho, Ashley makes a solid product........10 | ||
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| one of us |
Not sure if this will work, but Sinclair lists on page 37 of their current catalog a Lipski rear sight base for AR-15's and bolt rifles (2 models). It mounts to Weaver style bases, and is drilled and tapped to accept Redfield, Palma, Warner, Zelenak, etc. The model for the bolt actions is 06-601. Sinclairs customer service number is (219) 493-1858. Hope this helps. ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
10 Point, I think you might find them faster if used properly, with both eyes open and just "ignore the peep" and put the front post on target and pull the trigger....The eye will automatically center the post. ------------------ | |||
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