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I have never been to Africa and may have the opportunity to go next year, which will be a once -in-a-lifetime event for me. I have shot moose, elk, deer, antelope, and buffalo with my 280 Rem, never having lost an animal. What animals "shouldn't" I shoot with my 280? (No elephant is not on the list.) I am looking into Zim or RSA if I have to. I may take my muzzleloader along, if permittted to do so. | ||
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Mc, Your 280 is good enough for almost everything, obviously excluding the thick skinned animals. Also, it is too light for eland, and marginal for kudu, wildebeest, gemsbok sized animals. However, if you load it with Swift A-Frame 160gr or 175gr bullets, and can shoot it reasonably well, you will be fine for up to kudu sized animals. (160 if you are going to most of Namibia, Kalahari, Karoo, or some parts of Eastern & Northern Cape, and 175 if you are going to Zim or RSA bushveld.) Bring your muzzle loader along, it is allowed. Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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IMO the .280 Remington is equivalent to the .30-06 for power and IMO the .30-06 is adequate for plains game including Kudu, Gemsbok and yes...even Eland. Many folks choose a .375 for Eland as they can get to 1500 pounds but a well loaded 175 grain premium bullet in your .280 will do the job. Shot placement is critical but it is with a .375 as well. On my return trip the rifle I'll use for plains game is a .30-06 loaded with 180 A-Frames and I'll leave the .338 and .300 mags at home. The weight differebce in the .30-06 is the reason and I carry the gun far more than I shoot it. We Americans have a severe case of magnumrectalesis The .30-06 is totally adequate for plains game and so is the .280. How many times have you read that the 7 X 57 is a good plains game cartridge????? The .280 is just plain more of that. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I agree. Good enogh for Eland on down if you can put the bullets where it counts. | |||
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As you might have noticed, it is all dependent upon "perfect" placement. I've used my 280 on just about every NA animal I have hunted, but a 280 is not a 375. The biggest difference is blowing the sucker away and wasting time looking for dead-on-their-feet animals.  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I'm in Will's camp on this issue. But if this is your once in a lifetime trip and you know and love you 280, that is what you should use. Use the heaviest premium bullets if your in the thick stuff, as already pointed out. Use heavy premium bullets in any environment. Just glancing at the nearest manual, which happens to be a Hornaday manual, you're looking at 2700fps or so with the 175 grainers. Sounds great to me. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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MC, I largely concur with Karl, but differ on the eland/kudu/wildebeest issue. I believe that if you hit the same vital organs in Africa, that you struck while hunting your moose, elk and bison, all our African plains game animals will die in the same manner. If you use a premium bullet (I include the Nosler Partitions, while Karl does not like them), and you wait to take the perfect broadside shot, you can take anything from the eland down. You’ll be fine. | |||
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African animals do not wear armor plating. If you place a 7mm 160 or 175 grn bullet through both lungs the animal will die and will die soon. I always find it interesting when people say...I don't want to waste time tracking down an animal. I am all for humane and quick kills...but what else are you there to do. You are there to hunt and some of hunting is tracking the game after the shot. Most of us are not going to shoot two animals everyday so it is not reall an issue. I would take your 280 and use your elk/moose load and you will be just fine...and no your shot placement or shot choice won't have to be perfect...it will be the same as hunting moose/elk on the big stuff and deer on the smaller stuff. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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The question is not what a 7mm bullet can do, it is what it can be relied on to do everytime. I have hunted with a 7x64 (simmelar to 280) from 1993 till present, and have shot anything from klipspringer/ steenbok sized animals to eland with it. (Mostly in Namibia) I used to use only Hornady Interlocks (154gr) in it (even one eland), but after a bad experiece on a Karoo "voorsit" shoot on springbok, changed over to 160gr Partitions. These bullets worked fine on almost anything I shot (also including an eland), but failed me on a huge kudu bull, by not penetrating enough on a frontal shot. we only found the kudu 3 days later, and I havn't use Partitions since. My favourite bullets at the moment are Swift A-Frame and Rhinos, with the monolitic expanding bullets only after them (Perhaps too traditional). these bullets have never failed me, although I now load my 7x64 with Hornady Interbonds, as I believe it is a good premium long range bullet. The reason behind this is: Aframes are difficult to come by in Africa, and Rhinos are not terribly good long range bullets. I use my 7x64 only on long range shoots now, mostly for small to medium animals. I also lend my 7x64 out to clients for PG, but only in the more open terrain. I prefer the heavier bullets of a .30-06 for bushveld work. Now back to MC's question: If you were an experienced African hunter, i would say Yes shoot everything with it, using 175gr AFrames. However, it will be your first trip, so you would not like passing up on less than ideal shots, would you? Therefore, I do not reccomend the 280 (or ANY 7mm) for an eland rifle. It can be done, but as I always say, the fact that you can down a fighter plane with a .223 rifle, does not make it an anti-aircraft rifle.... Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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MC My take is a little different. My light gun was a 375 H&H the heavy was a 416 rem mag, MY wife shot a 3006. Zebra and Wildebest took heart lung hits with 416 and a zebra a marginal hit with the 375 all ran over 175 yards. The blood trail with either rifle was easy to follow. My wife shot Zebra and Gemsbuck with the 06 booth shoots were a little high and broke shoulders or spined the animals they both dropped to the shot. A get a copy of "The Perfect Shot". Shotplacement tells it all. I shot offhand so I took aim at the largest killzone. How many animals are you going to shoot, how many days? Do you have the time to track the game. What is the cover like where you are hunting, The thicker the cover ,the bigger blood trail needed. These are herd animals lots of track and dust. 338-06 would be my first choice. a 300 winmag my second. You can get a 338 win mag in a tika t3 for 600 or so. Every tika I have seen shot real well. Yes your 280 will kill everything on the plains so will a 6.5x55 but are they the bestchoice. You are throphy hunting and to have to pass on a great animal because he did not offer a broad side shot because your rifle was not up to the task or to kill one and lose it because of a small blood trail would be a heart breaker. JD JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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My thoughts exactly. The 7x57 has been used for years in southern africa to take "zillions" of plains game, including eland. With modern bonded heavy bullets such as the 175grain Woodleigh and A-frame, I see no reason to not use your .280Rem. | |||
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Karl, So you base your resluts on one failure...of course there is a US Marine on IJ who dove on two hand grenades and both them detonated underneath him and he survived...sounds to me like hand grenandes aren't any good. Many people buy or use a 375 for African Plains Game as either justification to buy another rifle or to get more use out of another rifle. Use your 280...have a great time. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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MC , Take what ever you want, as long as it is legal! The 280 is legal for plains game in every country, that I'm aware of! It is your hunt, after all, and you are the one who must pay $500 per day to track wounded animals,and pay for the trophy fee if he is lost, while you could be hunting, instead! The thing nobody seems to care about is the animal's suffering, when clean kills are not made. That can happen, however, with any rifle you choose, not just the one you are asking about! No matter what you shoot, "YOU" must place the RIGHT bullets in the RIGHT place, for a clean, humane kill! The 280 is not legal for the big five, so that goes out without saying. .366 cal is minimum, in many countries, and .375 in others for Dangerous game of any size! Your 280 is probably legal for Leopard in all cases, but the rest are questionable, in most cases. I look at this from a different angle! If this is the hunt of a life time, and one you may not be able to repeat, I'd buy a nice used 375 H&H rifle, and take your 280 as well. Use your 280 on all except the Eland, Wildebeast, and Kudu. That way, you not only have a HUNT OF A LIFETIME, to remember, you will shoot your favorite rifle, as well as gain a REAL African classic rifle to go with those memories! One shouldn't go to Africa with only one rifle anyway! There are few gun shops down the road from most hunting camps, and if one of your rifles goes out of service, in any way, you're stuck if you don't have a back-up! Most loners found in African camps, are, in a work, JUNK! Once you get a 375 H&H rifle, you will be surprised how much you will hunt with it in North America! Just my thoughts on the matter! Ultimately, it is your call, however! Enjoy your safari, what ever you decide!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Mac, I just hate it when you are right... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Mike, I stopped using Partitions after that incedent, I never said that was the only failure I saw in my life. remember, I see more bullets used per month than most guys see in their lifetime because of my work. What I think of bullet construction, I have made clear on more than 1 occation. I can also mail you (or anyone interested) an article I wrote on the subject. However, that is not the question. The question is if the 280 is adequate for eland. Just because it can kill it, ( with all the predefined circumstances), does not make it ideal, or even adequate. It can be used, but I will always advise a bigger caliber. IMO the eland and the Cape buff has the same ideal caliber- a .375 (or a 9.3 for our European caliber fans, like myself). The thing is, a eland is a pretty big animal, mostly outweighing a Cape buffalo. Although it is not as tough as the buff, it has some real heavy bones in its skeleton. A 22LR can propably penetrate the ribs, but most shots also nicks or at least closely misses heavier bones, and there is your probelm. Most hunters, after walking for say 3h, cannot place that shot so presicely, or might get an slight angled shot. What then? Do you take that risky* shot? (Risky only because of inferior caliber for the game hunted). i believe a first time hunter in Africa, like MC, will be better off with an additional rifle, say minimum 8mm (with 220gr bullets), or better yet, a .375 of some variation. Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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Have you ever shot a 375? Do you feel confident with your 280? If so why? How many large animals have you taken with it and what were the circumstances and results? I know you said you've never lost an animal, but are one for one or 20 for 20? (I don't want an answer here, these are just things to ponder.) You should always try to hunt with the best rifle for the conditions and game hunted. By best I would include the condition that you can shoot it accurately and consistantly from field positions and at the ranges expected. I took a 35 Whelen on my one safari (so far) and the results were very good. Next time I will bring a 9.3x62 along with the 35, my 270 will stay home. The point is I have experience and confidence with rifles of the above caliber given the conditions and game to be hunted. (I had hunted bear and elk in heavy and broken cover north of Yellowstone Park here in Montana for decades before I ventured to Africa.) I feel more confident when I am hunting in heavy cover using a 9.3 or 35 than a 270 because the ideal shot angle is not always possible. Raking shots may present themselves more than I would like and a serious increase in bullet mass seems be the difference between bang-flop and bang-crap... The cost of an African trip certainly justifies the purchase of a "special purpose rifle" and ethical considerations demand that you are equiped properly for the conditions and game to be hunted. Try a 375, if the recoil and rifle weight are too much try a 9.3 or 338/06 or 35 Whelen or even a 338 Win. You might find out that it will become your favorite rifle period. | |||
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Karl if eland not as tough as buff I don't know if I want a buff. My Eland took a 350 gr .416 dia tsx at 2600 fps or so last rib though to center of far shoulder. the bullet was found under the skin perfect mushroom just like the barnes add. It stood there for 2 or 3 min before walking out to offer me the other shoulder. The second shot was point on the shoulder, the petals must have broke off on the major bone hit and shot through xing the path of the first shot. The content of the rib cage was a mess. If he had ran he could have covered 500 yards in that time. JD JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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Poor MC, I really hope you realize there is no such thing as a "once in a lifetime" once you have drank from africas cup...... I hope you fair better than most with regards to only going once...... Didnt mean to not answer yoru query, just felt you should be warned.... | |||
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Sensible Sevens Overlooked by magnum maniacs, the 7x57, 7mm-08 and .280 Remington will do just about anything that needs doing with a .284 bore. By Craig Boddington from Guns & Ammo, January 2005 link to article: http://www.gunsandammomag.com/gun_columns/notes/0501/  Brittany Boddington with a zebra stallion taken with a single 150-grain Scirocco from her little Kimber Model 84 in 7mm-08 Remington. This size of game is pushing it for the little 7mm-08, but its attributes of shootability and great bullet performance make it exceptionally deadly. ----------------------------------------- The 7x57 Mauser and the 7x64 Brenneke have long been used in Africa. Of course, whatever they can do the .280 Remington can do also. The 7x64 and the .280 Rem are VERY similar though case dimensions are a little different. Personally, I like a little more bullet diameter and weight and prefer the .30-06 Springfield to the 7x57 and .280 Remington. But, with a good 160 gr or 175 gr bullet, I wouldn't hestitate to hunt most African plains game with a 7x57 or .280 Remington. (I've never hunted with a 7mm of any flavor.) I'd want more gun for Eland, though. (I've never hunted Eland.) Just for the record, I have hunted plains game in South Africa with the following cartridges (all handloads): .30-06 Springfield (220 gr Woodleigh RN at 2460 fps) 8x57JS (220 gr Woodleigh RN at 2400 fps) 9.3x62 (286 gr Woodleigh RN at 2390 fps) .375 H&H (300 gr Hornady RN at 2480 fps) -Bob F. | |||
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I'd seriously consider buying a 375 now. I make that recommendation because about 1 year ahead of time I bought a 300 Win Mag for my "once in a lifetime trip". Shortly before I left for that first trip the Africa bug really started to bite. By the time I got back I was already planning my second trip which would include buffalo. Get a 375 or 416 now, otherwise is just postponing the inevitable.  Caleb | |||
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Thanks for all tbe responses. As for the once-in-a-lifetime hunt, I don't have the funds some have (which is my own choice/fault). My wish list for other hunts is long- dahl sheep, rockys, moose in AK, Mulies in MX, Couse, Sitka BT in AK..... HunterMontana- I have shot mature bull elk from 50 yards on the run to 430 broadside, mule deer up to 480 yards-broadside, Mtn Goat, moose, Whitetails..... I am confident in my gun, and have only lost 0 animals in 18 years with my 280 and never tracked on farther than 200 yards. Knock on wood..... So I can kill animals at various ranges, under various conditions, at various angles. I just always hear of people hunting Africa with their 375s, 338s, 416s, 35s, etc. Actually the animal I want most from Africa would be a Thompson's Gazelle.... I watched a video with a guy shooting a buffalo in Africa with his bow. If he could kill that buff with his bow, could I kill one with my muzzleloader?? (Hope I don't stir a hornets nest with that question.) Thanks again for all the input. | |||
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yes you could kill a buff with a MZ of .54 caliber provided you get the velocity out of it to be legal which means you'll need to go with Triple 7 etc. rather than BP | |||
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I took a .280 to RSA and killed kudu, mountain reedbok, springbok, impala and assorted monkeys with it. I have also taken 5 elk, 3 mule deer, 7 or 8 whitetails, 3 pronghorns, and several hogs with it. I used 150 grain Nosler Partitions with everything. It is a model 70 featherweight. It groups 1 1/2" to 2" at 100 yds (not so good) but I have killed everything I have shot with it. I took a .300 win mag and .375 H&H to Zim for dangerous game. I used the .375 on everything except impala. When I go back, I would use the .375 H&H on virtually everything. I seems to hit harder and you can shoot the text book Texas neck shot and make a big hole "stem to stern" on nearly anything. If I were purely hunting plainsgame up to kudu (no wildebeast or zebra), I would use the .280. For anything bigger, I would use the .300. If in dangerous game country, I would use the .375 solely. Finally, the .375 H&H is a lot of fun to shoot - so in Africa - why not use it??? | |||
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I've used a .30-06 and a 7 mm Rem. Mag. for all plains game in southern Africa, including eland. I've never felt the need for a .375 H&H. My only loss was a blue wildebeest, which I shot dead-on in the shoulder at 40 yards. It was with a borrowed .30-06 and South 220-grain African ammo. All I can figure is that the bullet blew up in the shoulder and did not reach the lungs. We tracked the animal the rest of that day and all the next day before we gave up. I simply do not like recoil, and cannot shoot my .375 or .458 as well as I can the 7 mag. I believe bullet placement is more important than energy, within reason. Bill | |||
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I think the above quote by MacD37 deserves careful thought. There is a big difference between deer, elk, etc and African hunting. Wound a deer, elk, etc in NA and you deal with disapointment and the wounded game guilt. Wound game in Africa and it will cost you (well most of us) a lot of hard earned cash and probably some serious hunting time. Why piss around with a 280 deer rifle? Learn to be proficient with a 375 or equivelent caliber and give yourself the edge. It is unlikley that you'll get many "open broadsde shots" if you're in the bush.Also, if you're hunting an area where there's other critters that can stab, claw, smash, gore, bite etc why wouldn't you want a 375? | |||
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Sell something and get a 375. This will not be your last trip to Africa. If you bet me you might win but the odds are in my favor. If you don't like a 375 I will be surprised. By all means this is a wonderful excuse to buy the ultimate, hunt anything, anywhere rifle. The 375 H&H. I did what you are planning on doing and took what I had. My case was a 300 winmag. I do wish I had gone ahead and got a 375 then instead of later. Might have saved some difficulty I had with a limb between me and a kudu. Big difference between 180 gr and 300 gr bullet when the chips are down and you didn't see the limb until the last ounce of tension went out of the trigger. Get a new rifle. Get a new life when you go. Remember you will only get one..... "First trip to Africa". Good hunting and Wiedmanshiel. Although cartridge selection is important there is nothing that will substitute for proper first shot placement. Good hunting, "D" | |||
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Assuming that one can shoot it well, IMHO the best all-around African plains game caliber is the .338 Winchester Magnum. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Since I haven't been to Africa yet I'm struggling with the same question. Lots of folks say, "Use a .375," and others say, "Americans are seriously overgunned." How to choose? Our host, Saeed, says he's shot hundreds (IIRC) of plains game with a .270 and never needed or wanted any more. What do the RSA residents use? I understand the .270 is very popular, even in the 130g bullet, along with the 30-06. Personally, I have never seen a larger caliber make up for a poor shot, regardless how big it is, so when I go, I'll use what I've used for hundreds of practice shots - whatever that is. Jaywalker | |||
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The .338-06 is a superb compromise in this debate. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Jaywalker The RSA residents use whatever they have. Even .243 on kudu. They wound a lot, but some do not care. Generally speaking, the .30-06 or .303 is used mostly in bushveld terrain, and .270 in open terrain. Very little SA hunters are trophy hunters, in fact, most never shoot anything larger than a blesbok. As a rule, I rate overseas hunters as better marksman, as well as more serios hunters. a lot of them also believe they can take headshots, so think they can get away with inferior calibers. In truth, most shoot once a year, and have a rifle not only of too light a caliber, but normally with serious accuracy/ scope problems, if they have a rifle at all. Some of the corporate "hunters" (invited as customer by some company to say thanks for business), do not even own a rifle. I agree with the various comments on .338 caliber. Propably the best PG only alrounder for the African trophy hunter. Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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First you should probably decide what & where you will ne hunting. Eland may not even be on the menu. I'm not an expert, 2 trips to Africa is a wealth of hunting experience in a short time but guys here have been more often. If all I had was my .280, I would certainly not put off my trip. As others have pointed out, use a good 160-175gr bullets & you are going to be fine, even on Eland w/ good shotplacement . The problem I find in huntng much of Africa's game animals is you seldom get the perfect shot angle & erroring on the side of over gunned is wise. I have never shot so many animals head on as when hunting the African veld, so your bullet needs to be up to the task. Swifts, NPs, NorthForks in 160gr would be my choices for a one load Arican PG trip. Nothing wrong w/ the 175gr loads either, I have confidence w/ my 160gr loads so I would probably stay with that. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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MC,I would recommend you use your beloved 280 varmint rifle to shoot anything as long as the outfitter supplies some kind of shark cage. | |||
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Karl S., Thank you for explaining the discrepancy that's been troubling me. It makes more sense, now. Jaywalker | |||
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My dad took his 280 made by Weatherby to Namibia this past summer. We used Barnes XLC 160 Grainers at moderate velocity(I slowed them down a bit from the top load). I was very impressed with the results on Oryx, the bullet was not recovered. He also took his Springbok with this rifle. I'm kind of a Barnes guy now because of what we saw on the animals we shot. Until recently I had done most of my hunting with a 35 Whelen or bigger, I was very impressed with the 280. It's accurate, flat shooting and with the right bullet a solid performer. Since no one makes a 280 in Left hand off the shelf, I'm either going to rebarrel an '06 cartridge style rifle or build one in the next few years. With Barnes bullets I feel comfortable dropping a little weight because they are a longer bullet from the start. I probabley wouldn't go much under a 160 gr. spend your money on better optics (binos or scope) or on another trophy fee. I'm still kicking myself for not taking a warthog and another springbok. One of the guys I hunt with has a taped up 300 Winnie Sako. He's hunted all over the world with, he's deadly with it and he'd rather spend the money on another trip. I'm sure there are a lot of guys like that here, go with a rifle you trust and have confidence in. Good Hunting! | |||
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Howzit Karl, I would say that MOST SA hunters are not so careless - granted, you have seen far more than I have but my work on various ranches, reserves etc has allowed me to hunt with a wide variety of SA biltong hunters. Firstly, I aggree with the head shot issue.Many think they can so they don't waste meat, instead of loading carefully or using the right bulet for the job. One guy I did a prac semester with in KZN many years ago banned head shots on his property for people he didn't know and clients with brain shot game would be 'fined' (this was in the propety rules). This was to prevent those 'missed shots' you find in the veld a week later...... Most guys I hunt with are careful and ethical but yes, you get the guys who just gooi lood. I went on one E. Cape voorsit shoot for springbuck and the owner just let everything that moved have it with his .243, including kudu...it was horrible and nothing I want to ever be around again. I also agree that most 'corporate hunts' are an abomination! But it seems that they are less of them these day, or am I wrong? Anyway, you get bad apples in every cart, just like some trophy hunting clients...but only a minority. Many locals seem to have medium calibres so are equipped to take most game well, but yes, you do get the .223/.243 for everything types. Sure, kudu can be cleanly taken with a .243 but in the hands of a great shot, with exellent knowledge of anatomy and superb stalking/hunting/bush skills! | |||
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Hi kayaker Yes, I do think that something has woken up lot of people, regarding ethics and general hunting common sense. Might be the new law?
The problem is that most novice hunters in SA think they have to prove their "superior skills", and that using a inappropiate caliber are the first step. All in all, I prefer a hunter that knows his rifle and how to use it, not the "windgatte". Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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I'm with MACD37. Given the cost of the hunt, a used 375 H&H isn't that much. With it and your 280 you can take anything that walks on African soil (when you get to Ele maybe we'll talk some more). One of the joys of booking an African hunt is that it is a wonderful excuse to buy another gun, and the 375 H&H is a wonderful gun to buy. Now, if the cost of an added gun means putting the trip off, load, or buy, rounds heavy for the caliber, pack up the 280 and go. You may have to pass on the Eland, but if money is an issue than you probably have to be selective in what you shoot anyway. Go for a Kudu as your big dollar trophy and take a bunch of impala, warthog springbok and other lower cost animals to fill out your bag. You will have a great time and your 280 will be fine. TerryR | |||
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A .280 Remington and a .375 H&H would make a very nice pair of rifles. That would be a very versatile pairing. -Bob F. | |||
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True Karl...I meant to ad that. I have hunted with some younger windgat hunters who think that using a marginal cartridge is a sign of hunting prowess...and that using a 'cannon' means you are a lesser hunter....I have been told be some guys that .22 hornet and .222 are ideal springbuck cartridges and that a .30-06 is unecessary for kudu - a .270 is more than enough. Sure a .22hornet has and can flatten sprinbuck but I agree with your point....some guys seem to think you are 'soft' if you don't take head shots with center fire .22's and many who think they can...can't! A .270 is toatlly adequate for kudu as we know but to think that a .30-06 is a cannon, well! I wrote here once where I was shooting with some guys on a PH course where I worked in KZN. We were asked how mnay of us REGULARLY take game at 300m plus. About half the guys raised their hands...We shot at an impala life-size target at 300m OFF THE BENCH. The only decent placed shot came from a lady using a .270WBY and 140 X bullets. Most of us were using .30-06/.308 and one .270/one.375. The far majority of shots were miss or kwes.... It is present, but seems to be a minority...I think perhaps the FCA has had that spin off. Cheers PS I enjoy the articles -well written and sensible, pragmatic and not all about 'vuur en vlam' geweere (except perhaps that .450 Rigby of yours - just kidding!) | |||
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