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New Indigenization Regulations in Zim
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what a damn shame. this will kill the hunting industry in Zim. If I had a business there I would burn it to the ground before I handed it over to these a-holes.

Now how do you book a hunt in zim and not do business with one of these idots that is on the ban list.

what a shame! thumbdown


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Posts: 1366 | Location: SPARTANBURG SOUTH CAROLINA | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
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Each racist outrage by Mugabe just continues to prove that very few black Africans can run anything more complex than village politics. Zimbabwe is toast. This is the ultimate outrage.
 
Posts: 11729 | Location: Florida | Registered: 25 October 2006Reply With Quote
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Agreed. tu2
 
Posts: 18576 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff h:
what a damn shame. this will kill the hunting industry in Zim. If I had a business there I would burn it to the ground before I handed it over to these a-holes.

Now how do you book a hunt in zim and not do business with one of these idots that is on the ban list.

what a shame! thumbdown


Good question. What is the plan for someone who is/was booking for 2012 in the Save?
 
Posts: 1851 | Registered: 12 May 2009Reply With Quote
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The same crap is happening here in SA. Different procedures and time frames. As an example farms have to be part black owned by 2014{?} or as in the case of fresh produce farms, farmers will not be able to sell their produce at muncipal produce markets. One can see the attitude right now with Zuma trying to tell Prime Minister Brown {UK} to lift sanctions against Cousin Bob middlefinger and his mates. ISShooter, they are all commies, but calling themselves African Socialists. They are all convinced that they will still show the world that they will make communism work. And right now they have the Chinese encouraging them. Enjoy your hunting while you can, once the Chinese are living here they will eat everything that the locals might miss.
I must just point out to you all just how simple the Chinese really are. They do not have to grind rhino horn up and swallow it in tablet form. They just have to strap it on and get right down to work. Cool


SUSTAINABLY HUNTING THE BLUE PLANET!
"Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful, murder respectable and to give an appearence of solidity to pure wind." Dr J A du Plessis






 
Posts: 3297 | Location: South of the Equator. | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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A previous poster was right.

Zim looks to be a great destination but I for one will not take a penny or a cent there while the country is being run by such a corrupt and degraded regime.

A friend had an ele hunt all but signed up last year but I pulled the plug when I heard it was Zim.

Mugabe just is not getting his hands on my cash.

Time the old bastard croaked!
 
Posts: 160 | Registered: 29 May 2008Reply With Quote
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Folks,

Note that Ganyana is the only Zimbo to comment and he did not address how this latest Mugabe plan will effect the safari business if at all. My assumption is that it will have no effect on safaris as the Zim operators I'm dealing with are conducting bussiness as usual.

This talk of not booking Zim because somehow that is going to effect change is ridiculous. The only change would be for the safari operators to lose business.

I have made some inquiries with operators to get their take on the situation and I'l pass that along once I have some answers.

Let us not panic. Zimbabwe has been in a state of flux for quite awhile but the safari industry has maintained a consistent high level of customer satisfaction and trouble free adventures throughout all the trying times. I see no reason to assume now that all will change.

Mark


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Posts: 13079 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Well my thoughts are simple, eventually, if this insane idea takes place, and white's are displaced, how long will it be before, white people's lives are valued to nothing???

This whole thing is a powder keg, why would you risk going to a country with a massive disdain for whites?

F*ck em....cause the truth is simple, we can't save them from themselves. The animals are screwed, but fortunately there are herds elsewhere...

I feel bad for the outfitters, but they should have seen the writing on the wall years ago. I'm not going to support some tyrant to keep someone in business. You need a change in venue! I won't risk my personal safety (now a million pro-zimmers are going to say, its safe blah blah blah...which is all fine and dandy till someone turns the fan on? and who knows when that event will occur?) And hopefully they are looking into other avenues. Business changes and so does the world, VCR salesmen know what I'm talking about..Smiler

It's only a matter of time till a Hunter gets into some shit. Will it be you?





 
Posts: 732 | Location: Texas | Registered: 05 October 2009Reply With Quote
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Mugabe Has No Retirement Plans
04/03/2010 15:53:00


Harare, March 04, 2010 - Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe on Thursday shocked Zimbabwean editors that he had no retirement plans and stll had "many more days" in the office and may even seek re-election in the next presidential elections whenever they will be held.

Responding to a question about his retirement plans Mugabe who recently turned 86 said: “Oh - my retirement plans? I am still there (in office) for many more days, to work. What did you think?”

When it was put to him that his personal presence as leader of the country was viewed negatively by Western countries which have indicated they would not remove sanctions or restore good relations with Zimbabwe for as long as he was in office, Mugabe asked what Zimbabweans and the media houses thought about that.

“They are saying they will remove sanctions and bring assistance to Zimbabwe if I retire? What do you think? What does your media house say about that?” he asked.

Asked if he was considering seeking re-election in the next election Mugabe said that would all depend on his party Zanu PF. If the party still wanted him to represent them he would gladly do so but if they wanted him to rest “then I will go.”

Mugabe said whatever outcome of the constitutional making process would lead to elections.

“If the constitution is a success, then the logical next step would be an election and if it is unsuccessful still the result is an election. The life of this inclusive government is ideally two years but when we get there and we are not ready then the three parties will sit down to chart the way forward,” Mugabe said.

He admitted that he was not the best man to lead the to fight against sanctions adding that his relationship with Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai was improving by the day.

Mugabe said the fragile coalition government had a plan to set up a committee to deal with the issue of sanctions but he said several European countries had already refused to entertain the committee’s presentation because there were Zanu PF people in that committee.

“If I had my way I could do everything to get the sanctions removed but I have to accept the fact that the Prime Minister is listened to more than myself. So we will sit together to find a way forward soon. If I were to lead a team of people seeking to have the West remove the sanctions we would not succeed. In fact the result would be that we would be given more sanctions,” quipped Mugabe.

He told the editors that he had no financial interests in either Europe or America. If there was anything, it would be “just a little money that he had in accounts which had already been frozen anywhere”.

“Even my officials and colleagues that have been put on sanctions are not complaining about having lost anything. I have not seen any of them coming to complain that they had lost any assets due to the sanctions,” Mugabe said.

Mugabe implored the media to stop hate speech but instead, promote and support the inclusive government. He asked the state media to stop vilifying Tsvangirai and his MDC party while the independent media “Is far too negative – seeking to highlight only the negative elements of the unity government”.

Mugabe, Tsvangirai and the leader of the smaller faction of MDC Arthur Mutambara has failed to implement full the Global Political Agreement (GPA), which brought about the inclusive government due to oustanding issues which include among others the appointment of the Attorney General to replace the current Johannes Tomana and the appointment of a new Reserve Bank Governor to replace Gideon Gono as well as the swearing in of the MDC deputy minister of Agriculture designate, Roy Bennett who is facing terrorism charges. The MDC and Bennett deny the charges.

The constitutional process has been marred by infighting and lack of funds resulting in delays. Farm invasions of the few remaining white commercial farms continue unabated while violence has erupted in some parts of the country particularly against members of Tsvangira's MDC party as well as harrassment and intimidation of members of civic society and journalists.


Kathi

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Posts: 9528 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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So, what's new? popcorn
 
Posts: 18576 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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I find it hard to believe this will be anything but bad for hunting in Zim, wouldn't be surprised to see the US put a ban in place. If anyone books there, is it possible to keep the funds escrowed in a US account?

On one hand, booking in Zim keeps much needed cash going to the safari operators and also to the government.
On the other hand if that cash flow stops, it may be the incentive white safari operators need to get the hell out of the country before their throats are cut in the middle of the night.
 
Posts: 353 | Location: Southern Black Hills SD | Registered: 20 October 2004Reply With Quote
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Guys,

This is like deja vu from around the time of the last Zimbabwe elections. The posters are differnt but the rhetoric is the same. Have any of you that are saying you would not book a safari in Zimbabwe for this reason or that ever hunted there during the last 10 years? If so it would be alright with you to see the safari industry go in the crapper because you don't like Mugabe? Who benefits?

Mark


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Posts: 13079 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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I noticed that the new law supposedly requires that the new owners must purchase stock at market value. Using what?
 
Posts: 2827 | Location: Seattle, in the other Washington | Registered: 26 April 2006Reply With Quote
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As Mark suggested earlier, it seems unlikely that this will have too much affect on most of the safari outfitters. Don't you suspect that the value of mmost of the safari businesses is less than the $500,000 amount? And, if by chance, they do still own the land they hunt on, they are likely already in some sort of "partnership" anyway?

Many of these guys [the few safari outfitters that are left] have lost much of their holdings already, and they haven't much more to loose!

We already have the "banned" list to prevent us from "directly" giving money to these cronies, and while it might get longer, we will surely know who we are[or are not] permitted to deal with. I can not see how this should change the outfitters business too much, IF it is allowed to proceed.

I'll go back, as soon as we can find the deal we can afford and I will enjoy it while I can!

Les
 
Posts: 1261 | Location: Clearwater, FL and Union Pier, MI | Registered: 24 July 2003Reply With Quote
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I have sympathy for outfitters in Zim and my refusal to go there is not aimed at them, far from it.

It is on the same level that we did not send rugby teams to S.A in the days of apartheid and many tourists won't go to Burma while it it ruled by the current junta.

I think by going to a country and taking your presence and cash with you, you give tacit legitimacy the regime. The civilised world should freeze Zim completely until it conforms to legitimate politics.

I can't make others adopt a policy but I can adopt it myself.

I hope to go and hunt in Zim one day.
 
Posts: 160 | Registered: 29 May 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Oryxhunter1983:

"This whole thing is a powder keg, why would you risk going to a country with a massive disdain for whites?"

"...cause the truth is simple we can't save them from themselves."

"I won't risk my personal safety (now a million pro-zimmers are going to say, its safe blah blah blah...which is all fine and dandy till someone turns the fan on? and who knows when that event will occur?"

"It's only a matter of time till a Hunter gets into some shit."

"Will it be you?"





Oryxhunter 1983,

These excerpts from your quote really say it all for me personally...As pointed out before the writing is on the wall.

Even in a country such as Namibia once considered politically stable in comparison to the rest...I think they're due for more [farm] land take-overs soon.

A few white Namibians have ultimately expressed this sentiment to me personally, it's apartheid all over again only reversed Eeker

I was in shock Eeker

The writing is on the wall and it's just a matter of time that everyone will be able to read it.

I've been GOOGLING alot about these type of issues for the past year and I'm amazed about the things I've been reading. As a new hunter to Africa I was amazed at the negative things going on that are not readily expressed by outfitters and well others in the industry for reassons that are quite obvious. I don't blame them! However, it's only a matter of time these things be brought to light whether welcomed by me or the industry or not.

The inevitable is taking place and has been for some time based on all the accounts I've read.

Its Africa and by the looks of things we're all in for something of a surprise, but it shouldn't be...as was said earlier...The writing is on the wall...Its has been and will be tough for many to fathom this outcome. My heart goes out to all who call Africa home, both the indigenous blacks and whites born there!

It's a tough situation indeed and perilous for each of them...I wish there was another way for equality and prosperity for them all...In my simple opinion, we all need each other...but that's in a perfect world...The situation is sad Frowner

I was soo NAIVE about the situations over there about two years ago, however not any more. I decided I needed to do my own homework and it certainly has opened my eyes!

We are living in turbulent times with grave uncertainties...I had only wished that I had the opportunities to hunt in Africa much sooner in life.

Now, its just not on the top of the list anymore Frowner
 
Posts: 3430 | Registered: 24 February 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Small Bore:
I think by going to a country and taking your presence and cash with you, you give tacit legitimacy the regime. The civilised world should freeze Zim completely until it conforms to legitimate politics.
.


So does that mean I shouldn't go to New Orleans (or the entire interesting and complicated state of Louisiana) any more?? Does staying over on Royal Street in the Quarter "legitimize" the crap that goes on over on Bourbon? The world's made up of human beings my friend. Some need helping. Some need shooting. Not everything is black and white (no pun intended).
 
Posts: 1278 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: 31 May 2007Reply With Quote
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Mr. Bloomer thank you for your kind words!





 
Posts: 732 | Location: Texas | Registered: 05 October 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Oryxhunter1983:
Mr. Bloomer thank you for your kind words!


Well, I didn't post my opinions other than to share my feelings emulate yours in many ways...

I am a very simple person living a very simple life. I am not worldly, nor do I involve myself in arguments/debates about political stuff...I'm no auhority in any stratech of the imagination. However, I am quite up to date with what's going on in the world and now especially because of my love for Africa and her people both blacks and whites her never-ending woes.

It's just my simple UNBIASED opinion from a simple man who lives a very simple life-style in a very complex world...

Granted...I'm more than sure many others will see it differently than I do, and I can most certainly understand that...as my stakes in it are much different from many others Cool
 
Posts: 3430 | Registered: 24 February 2007Reply With Quote
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Seems to me the biggest issue here is what does "asset value of $500,000 or more" mean?

I'd say most safari operators will NOT be affected. We all know that very, very few safari operators and even less PHs are getting rich from safari hunting. If you're hunting on gov't or private property that IS NOT OWNED by the safari company, you have nowhere close to $500,000 in business assets. You have accounts receivable based on the existing bookings, but you also have great costs associated with conducting the hunt, paying for an area, paying the trackers and staff, vehicle and fuel, paying the TFs to the government, etc. etc. etc.

I'd say this law is directed at foreign companies and investors that have multi-national, multi-million dollar businesses in Zim. Banks, telecoms, industries, etc are the real targets of this law, in my opinion. The good news is that they have the clout to fight it and literally cannot afford to give up their investments or move out of the country.


Will J. Parks, III
 
Posts: 2989 | Location: Alabama USA | Registered: 09 July 2009Reply With Quote
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I spoke to a ph friend of mine in zim. today.
He seemed not too worried but said if it is enforced they were doomed. I got the feeling he is getting to the end of his rope. He father lost 3 farms and has moved to Bots. several years ago.


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Posts: 1366 | Location: SPARTANBURG SOUTH CAROLINA | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
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Page last updated at 12:11 GMT, Saturday, 6 March 2010


Bitterness and unease in bankrupt Zimbabwe
After 30 years in power, Zimbabwe's veteran leader Robert Mugabe said this week he was ready to stand for another term as president. BBC Africa correspondent Andrew Harding finds Mr Mugabe's party in angry mood, and others - the white minority and the former opposition MDC party - full of foreboding.




It has been a grey, drizzly week here.

In the wealthier suburbs of Harare, Zimbabwe's shrinking white population is once again feeling nervous.

Pat, who runs a small hairdressing salon, and whose family has lived here for four generations, is finally planning to leave.

They don't want us "whiteys" here any more she says. The writing is on the wall.

Pat has been spooked by a new law, introduced this week, which is supposed to correct the enduring economic legacies of colonialism, and give black Zimbabweans a controlling stake in almost all companies.

The main focus is Zimbabwe's rich mines and its industry.

But the indigenisation law also seeks to prevent white people from owning things like hairdressing and beauty salons.

In a few years, says Pat, we will be like an extinct species. They will come for our houses next.

The reaction may well be extreme.

Many white Zimbabweans have been slow to acknowledge the debt they owe to the black majority here. Economic empowerment is clearly necessary.

But after a decade of economic chaos, horrific violence, and the brutal seizure of white-owned farms, it is easy to understand why so many Zimbabweans - of all colours - are hair-trigger tuned to expect the very worst.

Bitter words


Saviour Kasukuwere does not exactly try to smooth the waters.

"You people," he almost spat at me, as I sat in his office on the ninth floor of the squat grey building that houses President Mugabe's Zanu PF Party.

Mr Kasukuwere used to be a member of Mr Mugabe's notorious state security.

He is a hardliner and a rising star.

"You British, you could learn a lot about democracy from us," he says with a thin smile.

Mr Kasukuwere, a tall, heavy-set man, was at primary school when his country won full independence from Britain 30 years ago.

Unlike Mr Mugabe's generation, he did not fight and suffer for freedom. But, full of passionate intensity, he seems to wallow in his bitterness.

In his eyes, and words, everything can still be blamed on what he calls the "genocidal" West.

Zanu PF's current preoccupation is with what it calls "Western sanctions".

The state media makes it sound like some overwhelming economic blockade.

"Our children are dying because of sanctions," says Mr Kasukuwere.

But as diplomats and economists here point out, the reality is less extreme.

The European Union is currently imposing a travel ban on 198 individuals. Thirty-five companies are also frozen out.

"This is about Mrs Mugabe not being able to shop in Paris," one diplomat put it. "Zimbabwe can't borrow money, not because of sanctions, but because it owes $6bn, and can't pay it back because it systematically wrecked its own economy."

Train smash

Within Zimbabwe's unity government, sanctions are a poisonous issue - one of many.

The unity government, formed after bitterly disputed elections, has survived a year now - President Mugabe's Zanu PF sharing, or at least pretending to share power with its enemy, the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC).

"It's a train smash, warfare every day," one MDC minister told me.

But the government has survived and on some issues is clearly making progress.

The MDC is hoping now to water down the new indigenisation law in order not to scare away foreign investors and potentially plunge the economy back into chaos.


Both parties are now gearing up for new elections - possibly next year. It is the only way to settle Zimbabwe's political deadlock once and for all.

The sanctions issue and the indigenisation law, are key campaign themes for Zanu PF.

If the MDC tries to question either of them - it is accused of being a stooge for colonial Western interests.

The MDC can probably handle that sort of criticism. It has got a strong support base, and at least one recent opinion poll showed it would crush Mr Mugabe and his party at the polls.

Any credit for the economic stability achieved here during the past year, seems to have gone to the MDC.

But the party is not nearly as well organised or ruthless as Zanu PF.

We are floundering, one MDC insider told me dejectedly. And of course, past experience in Zimbabwe shows that elections here are won by intimidation, not popularity.


Unless we have foreign peacekeepers to protect us, it will be another bloodbath

Senior MDC official
In 2008, Zanu PF orchestrated a campaign of terror - killing and beating MDC supporters - in order to hold on to power.

Now at the age of 86, after 30 years in office, President Mugabe has announced he is planning to run for yet another term.

Elections could be held next year, he says.

Mr Mugabe controls the police and the army, and under the current constitution, most of the electoral infrastructure.

Will he play fair this time?

We are heading towards another big fight, a senior MDC official told me anxiously.

Unless we have foreign peacekeepers to protect us, it will be another bloodbath.


Kathi

kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552

"The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page."
 
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