I am looking at buying a used but like new custom made .416 Hoffman. I do not reload and am told that this rifle will also shoot factory .416 Remingtons. What is the difference between the two rounds? Can I expect similar performance from the Remington rounds when the rifle is chambered for Hoffman's?

They are basically the same round, but if you do not handload, I would not suggest you purchase a 416 Hoffman, I would look around and find a 416 Remington...You would loose some velocity by fireforming 416 Rem cases for one thing, you would be purchasing a wildcat that had less re-sale value..You might could set the barrel back a turn and rechamber to the .416 Rem, if it wouldn't mess up the inletting of the barrel channel...

My late buddy George Hoffman designed the caliber to meet a need of the times, and Remington changed it just enough so that they didn't have to pay George any money...I always felt they showed their lack of class on that one..

Ray,

"......I always felt they showed their lack of class on that one.. "< !--color-->

I always wondered about that. Guess I'll have to agree with you again. Not as much fun but..... .

Rich Elliott

Interestingly, the Wolfe Pub "Big Bore" compilation has an article by George evaluating the 416 Rem. The tone of the article is such that you wouldn't think there was any bad blood between him and Remington. Maybe he wrote it at a time when he still thought Remington might 'do the right thing.' Bob

I knew Geo. for many years and I never heard him say a discouraging word about the Rem. deal. Rem. gave him the third rifle made (as I recall) and he had it bored to the Hoffman chambering of course. I took it to TZ for him in 1992 and shot my buffalo with it using a Barnes 350 X. The rifle, the nice cape buffalo, some handsome hunter and the rifle are in the photo on pg 112 of Country Boy in Africa by Geo. Hoffman.
I too think it a shame that Geo. did not get more credit from Rem. but welcome to bean counters and "big BINESS"....you know the saying..."We aren't mad...it is just business!"
Yes, you can shoot the Remington round in the Hoffman chamber but not the other way around.
When it came time for me to order my Dakota in 416 "Something" Geo. told me to get it in the Remington chambering due to easy of buying ammo etc.

John,

The Hoffman chamber is a bit larger than the Remington at the shoulder (Hoffman: .491" in diameter 2.430" from the case head with 24.1 degree shoulder angle, versus Remington: .487" at 2.389" and 25 degree shoulder angle). The Remington ammunition will load and fire in the Hoffman chamber (but not the other way around). The data I have shows a 10" twist for the Hoffman compared to 14" for the factory Remington.

I only knew George Hoffman on the telephone, and he was too much of a gentleman to badmouth Remington over their design decisions.


jim dodd

Yes to all of the above.

The only significant difference is in shoulder angle. 24.1 degrees for the Hoffman, and 25 degrees for the Rem.

The Big Green Bean Counting Machine went with the necked up 8mm Rem. Mag. case (which also has a 25 degree shoulder) to save bucks.

If the price is right, and for technical reasons already discussed above, I would buy it. Very reasonably priced .416 Remington Ammo is available from HSM. The only reason I might hesitate would be concerns about the head-stamp on the brass matching the technical chambering on the rifle if you ever wanted to take it out of the country (which is obviously a pretty major concern). However, one could always just order some custom ammo in .416 Hoffman prior to a trip abroad, sight the thing in, practice a bit with the marginally different round (which may not be really necessary but couldn't hurt on a psychological level) and GO HUNTING!

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

George never had anything bad to say about Remington..I asked him outright one time how he felt about it..He said it was certainly a disapointment, he could have used the money..typically George..

I remember Mr. Hoffman posting here before I left for Iraq and I remember he was ill. Did he die while I was in Iraq? Until this thread, I didn't know he'd died. I couldn't find anything like a biography on the Internet.

Thank you.

Russ

Russ,

Try this:
http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=680215&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=186&fpart=1

Has anyone exerienced bullets pushing out of factory or handloaded 416 Remington ammunition? There was an article that mentioned this in the African hunter several months ago. I am in the process of bedding a new M70 and am looking forward to working up loads that duplicate the .416 Rigby @ 2370-2400 fps. I know that there are .416's that beat this by a lot, however, the origional velocity seemed to work just fine . I have shot a friends .416 Rigby at 2500+ and the recoil is sure not easy for quick follow up shots with certain accuracy. (He backed off on his handloads to around 2450 fps and his shooting improved right away.)

I have a M70 Safari Express in 416 Rem. All original except for a pilar bedding job. I have no trouble reaching 2400fps with 400gr bullets with RL-15, H4895, H414, Varget. IMR4064 should work also, but I have not used it.

I can't come up with a single cogent reason as to why anyone would choose the .416 Hoffman over the .416 Remington.

AD

Russ,
George passed away while you were in Iraq, but Mary and family were at my booth signing his book in his place at Dallas this year, and his rifle was auctioned off. He was a good friend and will be missed, but I am sure he is where 100 lb. elephants and 50 inch buffalo abound..

George was supposed to hunt with Saeed and I last year but didn't make it, but he got a lot of enjoyment out of planning for that hunt. When I shot my nice Buffalo, Pierre and I said a prayer for George and knew he was there looking us over.

ACTUALLY the question is not "should i buy a 416 hoffman" the questions is



HOW DO I GET INTO RELOADING?



Here's why

416 rem ammo sells at carter's country (houston's biggest reloading and hunting stuff place) for 87.95.. add tax, that's 95.21 for a box.. that's 4.76 a SHOT it's 72 bucks and shipping from cheaperthandirt...



to reload 416 rem i use 80someodd grains of win760, (about 25cents) ... a 25 cent hornady 400grsp and a (call it) 2 cent primer... 52cents.. I can shoot 9 and change of these for the same price as ONE round of 416...



95.21 per 20 factory

10.40 per 20 reloads



shoot just FOUR boxes of reloads , and you have completely paid for all you reloading gear (rcbs supreme master kit, dies, 100 pieces of brass) (95.21-10.20)*4





It makes ZERO difference which 416 you buy in this case... everything but the cases costs EXACTLY the same...



in fact, if the hoffman is agood looking rifle, that fits you with a good price, then the other fella has already taken the loss for the "wildcat" part, and you SHOULD be in the catbird's seat.





Allow me to answer your original question

BUY IT.. since you dont reload, you WILL be reloading soon, as if the cost of the ammo were no question, you could just ring up quality cart or superior ammo and get either one from them.





Me, if I were after another 416, i'd have to have it... unless there was a rigby sitting right next to it



jeffe

Thanks, Ray, for updating me. I'm awful sorry to learn this.

Sorry for the tangent, everyone.

Take care.

Russ

If you don't reload buy the remington otherwise set your self up and crank em out... BTW you can get 100 rem brass for about $30... IMO I'd have to reload for either one to make it affordable...

I used to reload but sold all of my equipment. I found it too time consuming and I am not a patient man. Actually, Rocky Mtn. Sports started in Cody and is still here as well as another big store, Outdoor Sports Center. I can get .416 Remington ammo for $75.00 a box here which is truly expensive. May have to consider reloading as everyone is suggesting! Thanks for all of the responses. If I don't get this Hoffman bought (I have offered $1300.00) I'll look into a factory rifle and get some work done on it.