I have been following numerous threads on elephant hunting and am going to go in late 2007. I have talked myself on the gun to use.
I have a .375 H&H I shoot well. But several folks here say that you need a .416 or bigger to do it right.

Who, out there has shot elephants (and killed them) with a .375 H&H? Or do I have to have a .416 or bigger?

Vinny;

I shot my elephant, frontal brain shot with a .375. It wasn't my plan, but upon arrival to camp and checking the zero on my .416 we discovered barrel damage (didn't know it was that until we got home, but we couldn't get it to zero). So my alternative was to use my .375 which I am the most comfortable with anyway.

When I go back this year, I will be using my .375 again.

Regards, D. Nelson

it can be done just fine with a 375 h&h and i know of 4 elephant shot with a 375 but in all cases the people have gone to bigger weaponds.

if you only ever plan on hunting just one a 375 is fine but if you plan on going back a few times a larger say......458 lott would be abetter choice.

i shot my elephant with a 700 nitro but you definitly dont need that kinda horse power but .......i do enojoy having it and when the crap hits the fan i thank god i had it......

iv since gone to a 505 shooting 600 grain bullets but a 600 nitro or 577 double is still in my furture for sure.

Although I haven;t shot any elephants myself with the 375, I have seen a couple killed with Trophy Bonded Sledge Hammer solids. They worked just fine. The 375 only comes up a little short on a charge situation. It definately helps to have a little more horse power then. But come to think of it, one of the elephants I saw killed with a 375 was a charging cow that was turned with the first shot and killed a short time later with a heart shot with the same 375.

465H&H

Wally Johnson shot more than a thousand or so elephants with his Winchester Model 70 .375, and Harry Manners stocked another warehouse full of ivory with his. They managed to stop a few charges too, in their day.

But bigger is better, IMHO, as long as one can handle the increased recoil and place his shots well - in spite of what has been done with less by others, including experts like Messrs. Johnson and Manners.

Gordon Duncan (Shangaan Hunters) use his CZ in .375 H&H - worked for this guy:

Worked for me

Vinny,

Doesn't matter what you shoot as long as you shoot it with the right solid and put it where is counts...

Definately open sights...

Mike

My PH believed the 375 had more penetration than any other standard caliber.

I would caution you to get a scope with at least 100 foot field of view at 100yards.

Andy

Skip the scope! Look at the photo of the cow coming above. How much of that cow is going to be visible in any scope? Better to have all of the perspective and peripheral vision possible,imo.

JPK

Missed a frontal brain shot on my first elephant with a 375. Put a second shot in heart/lung area but was probably high. Ele crossed over into national park boundary and couldn't follow. Have not used a 375 on Ele since. Still believe it is adequate with well placed shot be it brain or heart/lung.

I carried a .375 for 10 years as a PH and it performed excellently . On the same note i have had many a client who has failed with rifles substantially larger ...its all about shot placement.

I shot a 'problem elephant' with a .375 H&H in the Caprivi Strip of Namibia. I went to Namibia for a plains game hunt and was in the right spot/right time and that was the rifle I had. It was a large old bull and a broadside brain shot at 35 yards did the job. The PH carried a .375 as well.

I inherited that .375H&H which is why I'm partial to it. I've used it on several dozen critters and am one with the rifle. I can handle it well.

That all said, were I to start from scratch I'd probably have gone with a .416 magnum of one variety or another. Maybe, and I mean maybe, a 458 Lott. Key thing is I'm no limp wrist but the recoil from a Lott is nothing to take for granted. You must do more than just a trip to the range to sight it in. I shot some critters (including a 'buff) with a too-light Harris Talon in .460 Weatherby and that was brutal to the point where I could just barely shoot it properly.

A well placed .375H&H is better than a flinch with something bigger.

I have shot one elephant with a 416 Weatherby, and over a dozen with a 375.

The 375 will kill them just as well as any of the larger caliber, so go ahead and use yours.

Just make sure of your shot placement.

In fact, I have made the 375 my only rifle for hunting dangerous game, and so far I have not regretted that decision.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have shot one elephant with a 416 Weatherby, and over a dozen with a 375.

The 375 will kill them just as well as any of the larger caliber, so go ahead and use yours.

Just make sure of your shot placement.

In fact, I have made the 375 my only rifle for hunting dangerous game, and so far I have not regretted that decision.

This has no credibility at all (it is actually a 375 H&H on steroids )

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:
I carried a .375 for 10 years as a PH and it performed excellently . On the same note i have had many a client who has failed with rifles substantially larger ...its all about shot placement.

Ivan,

I agree that shot placement is critical. I would add that the 375 has great penetration.

But there are not many guys that are confident enough to tempt fate as you do playing with elephant, nor do I believe that many would have the presence of mind, or the knowledge of shot placement, should a charge come to place the shot accurately. So a bigger gun could and does make a difference.

And last I saw you, you were using a half worn out Heym 470 (another freebie for the non-believers ), not a 375.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have shot one elephant with a 416 Weatherby, and over a dozen with a 375.

The 375 will kill them just as well as any of the larger caliber, so go ahead and use yours.

Just make sure of your shot placement.

In fact, I have made the 375 my only rifle for hunting dangerous game, and so far I have not regretted that decision.

This has no credibility at all (it is actually a 375 H&H on steroids )

Bill,

True my friend true.

Still, the caliber is still 375, and if one can put it in the right place, it makes no difference what velocity it is going at.

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:
Gordon Duncan (Shangaan Hunters) use his CZ in .375 H&H - worked for this guy:

Mouse, I assume you know the whole story about this?? They weren't hunting elephant at the time. It was a bowhunt for cape buff, and this elephant took a definate dislike to their being in the area. They were very lucky they had the whole thing on video, or there would have been Hell to pay for killing an elephant off license. On this same hunt, Gordon had to kill a charging buff at about 3 yards. He definately earned his $$ on that trip.

12 so far, only had one problem and that was my fault,

My partner in the caprivi, a short, light, marahon running type, whacked a mid-50's bull with a 375, and it was a beautiful thing. It is all about bullet and placement.

However, Ivan, if you are going to let me poke Jumbo with a stick and string this season, I hope your support artillery is somewhat greater than 300 grains.

Just a thought from a concerned client.

Are you hunting A trophy Bull or a Cow?
Hunting early season Ele cows in the thick bush is a job for the big calibers.
I would hunt Bull Ele, late season with a 9.3.
ozhunter

Oz, hope to hunt both in Zim in July.

Wally Johnson apparently shot a hell of a lot of elephant with one. _Baxter

the 375 is fine.

Call Larry at Superior Ammo and ask him to load you up some rounds. He supplied me with 40 rounds of a Barnes Flatnose (I believe). All the PHs in our Botswana camp were extremely impresseds with how they performed on the two bulls we shot.

Larry at Superior said they were the straightest tracking bullets he had come across. I may be wrong on the name, but call him and tell him what your doing and he will set you up.

Regards,
John Barth

I have used a 375 HH on a tuskless with a frontal brain shot and one on a big bull with a heart/lung shot. They both went down with no problems. However, I am hunting this April/May with Buzz in the thick stuff for a tuskless cow and I now have a 458 Lott. I feel much more comfortable with the additional stopping power.

Have shot six cows and one bull with my .375. No problems and no reason to go bigger. I did buy a 416 for a while but was not impressed so I went back to the .375.

My friend, Wayne, did a few years ago. He brained it with one shot.

I shot mine with a 375, one frontal brain shot, went in the front and out the back.

I have. Zim communal lands in 2005. 375 is plenty, if you put the shot in the right place. The only reason to go bigger is if you are unsure of your ability to hit the mark. But even then a bigger bullet might not realy help you out. Many before you have done it with a 375 and many after you will. There are just as many, or more, who will always claim it can't or shouldn't be done with a 375, or with a bolt when there are doubles available, or whatever. JMHO.
Whatever you decide, good luck, enjoy.



Brian

bill ,
the question was has anyone out there killed an elephant wiuth a .375 ...i have ...several , today i use a heym .4540 3 and a quarter and i agree that bigger is better , my poinmt is that i would rather have someone who shoots well with a .375 than someone with a brand new rifle of a larger calibre ....

steve , dont worry , i will have my .450 !

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:
bill ,
the question was has anyone out there killed an elephant wiuth a .375 ...i have ...several , today i use a heym .4540 3 and a quarter and i agree that bigger is better , my poinmt is that i would rather have someone who shoots well with a .375 than someone with a brand new rifle of a larger calibre ....

steve , dont worry , i will have my .450 !

Ivan,

I have not shot an elephant with a 375 and wouldn't on a bet. When you watch Buzz's video the screwups are shot placement and most are of no consequence.

But when they come and the brain is missed you can keep those pea shooters!

I guess the overall consenus is 375 H&H is fine, but bigger is better. I have walked up to an elephant with a 375 and a 404. I was more comfortable with the 404!

A question to those of you who have shot many elephant.

If you miss the brain with a .375, and switch to either the body (hip, head, and neck in my case) or another shot at the head, does the elephant still act like it has been severely and massively debilitated by the shot?

My one large cow elephant was shocked noticably by each shot w my 450 Dakota regardless of where I hit her.

As long as I had ammo, I did not honestly (perhaps foolishly) feel in danger.

Each shot really rocked her world.

Do you also see this with the .375 and .416 calibers?

Thanks, Andy

Went along on a Parks cull last year and watched a Parks ranger shoot a cow in the head with a 458. She just turned and looked at us and when she began to come around I broke her shoulder with a 375 and she took three steps and fell over. Was told to always shoot through the shoulder blade into the heart lung area as this will cause the shoulder to crack when the elephant puts weight on it. Ive seen this work five times for what its worth.

let me say this , in addition to whats all been said above ... a cow shot in zim is a very very different animal to a bots or matetsi bull , i have had cows shot with a .470 where the shot placement was definitely off , just fall immediately, a similar shot on a large matetsi or botswana bull would have meant the aniumal turning and running off ...

neck shooting an elephant is a risky shot unless you have excellent anatomical knowlkedge as their neck muscles and throat are so "wide" by compariuson , and anyway , if you can see the broadsidfe , the heart lung area is a larger and far safer target ..

one adventage to taking your first shot as close as you can get is that if it goes wrong ( which it often does with a frontal brain shot) then you have ample time to make a second shot as the animal turns ..

the best scenario is obviously when the ph doesnt shoot at all...one sees far to many video and hears far too many stories where the ph did most of the shooting as a result of poorly "coachingt" the client in the first shot and likely second shot placement..

i use a set of about 30 pictures to illustrate the frontal brain shot , and the one thing that is hardest to grasp is that you are generally shooting upwards and so most shots go high ...only photos can really illustrate this , with the brain lying on average about 2 feet and a few inches behind where the bullet will enter the skin , this is a tough shot ...

if an animal is running away , the best shot will be in "the bulge" of its gut and with most calibres that will safely get you a lung shot ...the hip shot is a difficult shot on a moving animal as the ball and socket area is only about 10 inches across , and not easy to see.

Ivan,

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

My second shot was the hip shot as the first head shot whirled her 180 degrees away from me.

This was late season (November), and the bony hip joint was highly visible, just like a giant bulls eye.

I easily made that shot.

I was using a 3 X scope because I did not know any better, and the neck (spine) shot was all I could see!

My PH, Myles McCallum, by the way was super about letting me sort out my own elephant.

I would recommend him to anyone.

Andy

I would say that it really depends on how you handle yourself and SHOOT in a "real life / high pressure / live or maybe die" type situation. Are you a seasoned dangerous game hunter? Caliber might be a moot issue. You might be worring about the wrong thing. I've struggled with this and have wondered if my focus is correct. Good luck in you endeavers and have a great hunt. There can never be enough of a good thing. I don't care what they say! Many hunters have killed elephant with a 375.

ANDY ,

MYLES IS CERTAINLY TOP DRAWER AND AN EXCELLENT PH ...WE ALL NEED MORE GUYS LIKE THAT OUT THERE ...

SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAD A VERY EXCITING TIME ...

I dont think enough importance is placed by most hunters in quick follow up shots. Double shooters seem to do well with this but most bolt shooters are to slow to reload and fire. How many times have you heard the PH telling the client to shoot again. If the PH has time to say it you should have already done it. Many big bore shooters dont have the ability to empty their magazines because of lack of practice and sensitivity to recoil. You should be able to shoot four times in five seconds with enough accuracy to hit a five gallon bucket at fifty yards.

Hitting a 5 gal. bucket 4 times in 5 seconds ..@ 50 yards.....That is a good goal ... Thanks Gunny