Interesting piece on the BBC Africa News this a.m.:
In Kenya they are moving a herd of Elephants from 1 game park to another - the first is over-populated and there is an elephant/human conflict in the surrounding small-scale farms.
The discussion was on the cost- US$7000 per elephant - was it worth it. The
answer ( from the liberal interviewed) was YES.

Note though...A locals family is compensated US$500 for anyone killed by wildlife.
Value of elephant US$7000
Value of peasant US$500

oh, so thats what NPV stand for in Kenya

Around 25 years ago I was a student in wildlife graduate school with a student from Nepal. He was the head of Chitiwan National Park. At that time there was a good population of tigers and rhinos in the park. One tiger started going out of the park and killed several local wood cutters in the surronding forest. The parks people wnted to kill that tiger but needed approval of the King of Nepal. My friend went for an interview with the King for that purpose and after all the head bowing, knee crawling etc. appropriate to meeting the King my friend pleaded his case on why it was critical to kill this tiger. The King listened attentively then sat for several minutes thinking. Finally the King spoke. "My loyal subject" he said, "After due consideration I refuse your request" He continued "We have many, many wood cutters but only a few tigers".


465H&H

Sounds fair to me!

A while back there was a story in the Globe and Mail in Toronto about the owner of the Bowmanvile Zoo in Ontario who had an old elephant.

He got one of the American TV stations (Discovery channel or someone like that) to kick in US$ 250,000 to fly the elephant to a reserve in South Africa. It was going to be a big media event. Saving the elephant and so on.

A few months later I see where they have to cull 7,000 elephants in South Africa and are worrying about how to do it.

Media conservationists have no interest in conservation. They are just interested in self promotion.

The project fell through because when the drugged the elephant for shipment it died but it was ready to go and the budget had been allocated.

VBR,


Ted Gorsline

Coal to Newcastle.

quote:

We have many, many wood cutters but only a few tigers".

When I was reading this thread I recalled an essentially exact comment that was made back in the mid-80's related to the death of an Hispanic (almost certainly Mexican) janitor by a tiger in the Dallas, Texas zoo. (At least I think it was Dallas). The janitor somehow got in to clean the cage in a less than safe manner and was killed and mostly eaten. When the head of the zoo was interviewed about what was to be done with the tiger he made the same word-for-word quote (substituting Mexican janitors for wood cutters).

The to-be-expected firestorm erupted. I can not recall if the tiger was ultimately killed or not.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Note though...A locals family is compensated US$500 for anyone killed by wildlife.
Value of elephant US$7000
Value of peasant US$500

I would imagine most African gov'ts wouldn't even assign this value to one of their own citizens.

Does the average African subsistence farmer produce $500 worth of value to the economy in a year? In 10 years?

quote:

.... produce $500 worth of value to the economy in a year? In 10 years?

Using that definition 90% of residents of Western nations would have a negative value based on economic "contribution".

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

.... produce $500 worth of value to the economy in a year? In 10 years?

Using that definition 90% of residents of Western nations would have a negative value based on economic "contribution".

Perhaps not 90%, but a lot of them!

One way to reform personal injury and product liability law would be to limit the damages to the amount the person has contributed to the economy. This is difficult to measure, but we could start with the net amount on their income tax return. If it is zero, then the damages they can collect will also be zero.

Dan, I like your idea of personal injury ect. reform!

Not bad for an IP/IT attorney.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Not bad for an IP/IT attorney.

Dan

Do attorney's add or detract from GDP?

quote:

Originally posted by Don In Colorado:

quote:

We have many, many wood cutters but only a few tigers".

When I was reading this thread I recalled an essentially exact comment that was made back in the mid-80's related to the death of an Hispanic (almost certainly Mexican) janitor by a tiger in the Dallas, Texas zoo. (At least I think it was Dallas). The janitor somehow got in to clean the cage in a less than safe manner and was killed and mostly eaten. When the head of the zoo was interviewed about what was to be done with the tiger he made the same word-for-word quote (substituting Mexican janitors for wood cutters).

The to-be-expected firestorm erupted. I can not recall if the tiger was ultimately killed or not.

I don't know where, or if this happened, but it was not at the Dallas zoo! Dallas did have a gorilla get free three years ago, and hurt some people, and had to be shot when it charged a policemen,Nitro 450 No2 (Tony)who posts on this forum! The people the gorilla hurt, were one small black child, and a couple hispanics, but no one made reference to the ratio between numbers blacks, and/or hispanics, and gorillas! Which, in that city was about 1,000,000 to 1, before Tony shot that gorilla!

quote:

Originally posted by Don In Colorado:

quote:

We have many, many wood cutters but only a few tigers".

When I was reading this thread I recalled an essentially exact comment that was made back in the mid-80's related to the death of an Hispanic (almost certainly Mexican) janitor by a tiger in the Dallas, Texas zoo. (At least I think it was Dallas). The janitor somehow got in to clean the cage in a less than safe manner and was killed and mostly eaten. When the head of the zoo was interviewed about what was to be done with the tiger he made the same word-for-word quote (substituting Mexican janitors for wood cutters).

The to-be-expected firestorm erupted. I can not recall if the tiger was ultimately killed or not.

I remeber someone being killed like that in the Houston zoo in the mid 80's, but I don't remember that kind of statement being made afterwards. then again I was splitting time studying and boozing it up as a college student just a few blocks away from that particular zoo.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Not bad for an IP/IT attorney.

Dan

Do attorney's add or detract from GDP?

It depends on what economist you talk to. In a utopia, everyone would be honorable and attorneys would have no function. In a country with a weak legal system (all of Africa, for example), attorneys also have no function because a written contract means nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
[The people the gorilla hurt, were one small black child, and a couple hispanics, but no one made reference to the ratio between numbers blacks, and/or hispanics, and gorillas! Which, in that city was about 1,000,000 to 1, before Tony shot that gorilla!

I hope that Tony did not try to balance out his bag limit in the same ratio as the population.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Not bad for an IP/IT attorney.

Dan

Do attorney's add or detract from GDP?

It depends on what economist you talk to. In a utopia, everyone would be honorable and attorneys would have no function. In a country with a weak legal system (all of Africa, for example), attorneys also have no function because a written contract means nothing.

Dan

I would think an IP/IT attorney would have a lot of value, ie in adding protection to the investment made in innovation and invention thereby encouraging further innovation and increasing GDP.

Now if the attorney was some NY pen pushing hearse chaser ........

***

I agree in Africa a bribe and the giving of favours is probably better legal protection than any legal document.

NitroX, you have obviously not observed the right hearses being chased (one must hang with the right pack of dogs) and are stricken with a clear case of pen envy . . .

FYI, most U.S. lawyers pay more in income tax than the national median income . . .

Now, as to the proper valuation of life, that is a complicated subject best addressed by the immortal bard:

"Life is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

From Genesis:

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Enough said. Woodcutters trumph Tigers

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Interesting piece on the BBC Africa News this a.m.:
In Kenya they are moving a herd of Elephants from 1 game park to another - the first is over-populated and there is an elephant/human conflict in the surrounding small-scale farms.
The discussion was on the cost- US$7000 per elephant - was it worth it. The
answer ( from the liberal interviewed) was YES.

Note though...A locals family is compensated US$500 for anyone killed by wildlife.
Value of elephant US$7000
Value of peasant US$500

Wouldn't moving the "peasants" be cheaper?