The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Take Down Rifles - do you use one?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Can you share your thoughts and opinions on using a take down bolt rifle for Africa? I am looking at a Dakota Traveler and would welcome the wisdom of the AR members. Thanks | ||
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I have taken a sauer hatari takedown with me to Africa. Twice it went through customs with my other bags without any inspection/paper.(they did not think that little bag could be a rifle) The good thing with a takedown - easy to carry and to have many different calibers in one rifle. | |||
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I'll be taking delivery of my first take-down this week, but it's the H&H style take-down. For those who know it, the barrel and top half of the action are seperated from the stock and bottom metal via the front action screw. It still results in a smaller over package. The idea of a gun case which goes through the regular luggage channels, rather than the oversized luggage, would seem to be an obvious advantage. Also good on light aircraft, throwing in the trunk of a car, etc. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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Exactly. That's why I go with Walter's favorite; a Blaser R 93. I can get the rifle, its scope, a scoped handgun AND all the ammo in a single case that meets the dimensions and weight for standard checked baggage. | |||
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Yep I hunted with a sauer 202 takedown. they are a great idea and they are in such a small case they don't standout like the normal gun cases do | |||
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I own a Mauser M 03 system. Very accurate. The Mauser and Sauer are great take down rifles. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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I took an HS Precision takedown to Africa several times. It was a pleasure compared to the larger cases. I found it physically a lot easier getting through customs with the smaller case. | |||
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+++ on ADahlgren's comments, takedowns are easier to travel with, and to check into hotels with, etc. Mine is a customized Browning lever action in .375 Ruger. | |||
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I too have an Sauer 202 Take-Down and have brought it to Africa several times. I love the smooth action and it shoots great, but i would not buy it again for African hunting. On an typical hunt you will need one caliber for the big stuff and an other for antelopes ect. Bringing two barrels in different calbers is just not practical. Even if barrel change is very quick it just dosn't work in the field. Further I try to bring 2 rifles in calibers that can substitute the other if something happens to one of the rifles. A 416 + an 500 for an elephant safari or 416 + 338/375 for buffalo and antelope hunt. A few year ago in CAR I only brought the Sauer Take Down planning to take everything with it in 416. The first day I fell and the scope came loose. So I ended up hunting with a very bad 375 camp gun. This was the first and only time I only brought one rifle and thus the advantage of the Take Downs compact gun case is gone. Good hunting Carl Frederik | |||
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I agree Carl Fredrik I jag köpte min i Danmark faktiskt. | |||
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I think this is more an argument for having a second scope and mounts, not a second rifle. A heck of a lot cheaper and easier to transport another scope than a second rifle and the required ammunition. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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I see your point, but in this case the screws for the mounts were pulled out of the action leaving the rifle useless without new screws. (They were eventually flown in from Germany) And cheaper? Think not- the S 202 is very expensive. you can buy 3 normal Sauers for the price of the Take-Down Good Hunting CF | |||
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doubles are made to take down  | |||
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I hunted with a guy who took the stock off of his standard bolt rifle and had a case made for the 2 pieces. Made for a nice compact unit and didn't cost him anything except getting the case made. When he got to hunting camp he simply screwed the action back on the stock, fired his sighters and went hunting. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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Blacktailer: Thats what Kenny jarrett does for his takedown. They are pillar bedded and come with a torque wrench. Americase makes a nice small case for the components. Put it together when you get there and it is usually on the button. I used a 338 Jarrett for elk hunting and it was never more than an inch off when assembled. I often thought of doing the same thing to a factory Winchester 416 Remington. | |||
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I used a Dakota 76 Traveler .416 Rem/.300H&H on my second hunt in Zimbabwe. Nice rifle, but it would not come close to holding zero after being taken down/reassembled. Usually shot about six inches low, and I burned a lot of ammo getting it sighted in at the Pedza Pasi range. I have a Holland & Holland .375H&H takedown now. It holds zero very well. Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
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How about the Dakota "Outfitter" model? Basically a take off stock with torque wrench design. Seems like it would hold zero a little better than the Traveler. Anyone have one of these yet? | |||
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Just got back from Zimbabwe took my Blaser R8 in 375H&H it Performed flawlessly held zero no problems. Great gun for Traveling | |||
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PDSmith - I am interested to hear the problems you had with the Dakota take down system. What went wrong? Were the barrels not held tightly into the action? I thought the bolt performed this function when the rifle is assembled. Initially, I would have thought their system, which superficially looks the same as the Sauer system, would have had the fewer problems. The Dakota system 'benefits' from not having a threaded, or interrupted threaded, barrel - action connection. So, thread wear issues are avoided. I thought the Dakota Traveller actions have a small screw / bolt on the side of the stock which can be used to tighten the action after repeated assembly, re-assembly. I use the torgue wrench approach and simply take the barreled action out of the stock. I am, however, having one of my rifles converted to the Holland & Holland take down method. | |||
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Few years ago went thru the same discussion, researched the "affordable" take down rifles available here in Australia. Ended up buying a Blaser R93 (mainly for the extra safety feature of the cocking device ) and used it in Zim with great success. Travelled with two barrels 416 rem mag and 300 win mag. Scopes are interchangeable if needed and return too zero 100% every time. All travels in a case two foot seven long by one foot wide (2'7" + 12"??) We all try too look we are traveling with anything but a rifle case, but the first thing the airlines do over here is put a dirty great tag on the case declaring to everyone that a firearm is inside, go figure. Reckon they a the way to go, could only be better if they were doubles..... | |||
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I concluded long ago that the best of the bunch is the Blaser. Newfangled, to be sure, but utterly repeatable and reliable. They also have a great trigger and all of mine are amazingly accurate. I've been using one R93 or another for many years and I've never been disappointed in the least. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Hi Rob, can you give any details on what is required for the conversion, and who is doing the work in the UK? Thanks, Peter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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The Blaser R93, Blaser R8, and the Mauser M03, are the ONLY take down bolt rifles that I would count on to go back to zero 100% of the time when reassembled. My R 93 has proven this to me each time in the last several years that I have tested it. In fact when I put it together after arriving to a hunt, I do not even feel the need to check the zero... UNLESS the rifle and scope has been in airplane baggage. I have always carried my scope in my carry on, so I do not have to worry about it. And yes the Blaser scope mount goes back to zero 100% too.  DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Holland & Holland take down conversion I believe any competent rifle maker / action specialist could do the work. So, try to find one of the out workers for Rigby / Jeffries, Wm Evans, Churchill etc. H& H do it, obviously, BUT they are going to be really, really expensive. The work involves fitting a larger front action bolt, with a spring (not sure what this is for, do not remmber exactly, but it is a keeper so you do n't loose the bolt / screw and to ensure it always tightens up prpoerly) along ith a 'blind' rear action screw bolt. A little recess / bracket is formed at the rear edge of teh actional work tang, under which the rear action / tang slots / fits. It is a bit fiddly to do, and is not that cheap. Mine cost / is costing me around £500-00+ plus vat from memory. PM me and I will give a lead to the man doing mine. He is really busy and foes not take on too much non trade work. | |||
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I agree with N E 450 No2 Over the years we have had many clients bring Take-downs on Safaris .The most popular has been the Blaser R93. It is reliable and the scope mounts are great back to zero 100% . On a dangerous game hunt,I would recommend 2 scopes, a low powered (1x4) for hunting in thick stuff, and a 3x9 with good light gathering abilities for your cats and on longer distance plainsgame hunting.Scopes are easier to change than barrels . | |||
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Thanks Rob, PM sent! Peter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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Takedown rifles are great. Once in Zim at the airport a travelling friend at the Vic Falls airport and was carrying a normal long gun case was approached while loading guns and this very helpfully person "suggested" that if he was tipped he would make sure nothing happened to his gun and that it would make the plane. This was on the Tarmac and the case was a dead giveaway. Another aspect that certain take down guns enable is that if you carry two complete rifles and the design allows interchangeable parts, it is easy to swap parts if something happens to one. I have heard stories of stocks getting broken by vehicles running over it and that gun is done for the trip. If you have the right takedown gun set up you still could have both calibers available to use. | |||
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Blaserguy makes a statement that will not actually be comprehended by those not falilar with the Blaser concept... Lets say that you are going to Africa and you take 2 Blaser R93's, both in magnum calibres. Lets say a Safari in 375 H&H and a Safari in 416 Remington Mag. So you have 2 bolt heads, 2 bolts, 2 stocks and 2 scopes in mounts, and a 375 and a 416 barrel. Herein is the advantage of the Blaser system. BOTH of the bolt heads, BOTH of the bolts, BOTH of the stocks, will function with either of the barrels. ANY Blaser scope mount will fit ANY Blaser barrel... You could take an extra magazine or two as well. Try that, with any other rifle.  DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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But how do you get past the UGLY factor?   | |||
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Ugly IS as Ugly DOES... Actually, I do not find the Blaser R 93 to be Ugly at all. They handle very well. They are slick to operate and they are very, very accurate. Scary accurate. Todd have you not ever shot a Blaser R 93??? DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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No. Never shot one. I hear they are fine rifles from a performance standpoint. But ... I can't get past the looks! | |||
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What value does that statement make in a discussion like this on practical merit of a takedown gun used for travel. There are other modern engineered guns like the Blaser that are stronger, safer, and offers another option. Good old days syndrome makes some think that gun design ended in the early 1900's. For me I like all guns and can appreciate the option of modern engineering. Different strokes for different folks. There are some combat rifles that are not that attractive for example but I would rather have one of these if I was going into harms way | |||
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OK Todd, we can do this one of two ways. In a couple of three weeks, in a time that fits both our schedules, you can come to East Texas and shoot some Blasers on my range. We can shoot to 500 yards there. Or, when I go to my deer lease I can stop off around Weatherford, at the range you shoot at and you can shoot some of my Blasers. Then you can give your first hand opinion, here on AR, on how they shoot and handle. We can do some shooting, have some lunch and a good visit, and some fun as well. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Would love to do some shooting with you. Even your Blasers. I've never said that they aren't accurate and well built. I just don't like the way they look. I prefer a more classic style with an open grip and no Schnabel fore-end as well as an overall lower scope mount. Just a preference for more traditional lines in a bolt gun. You and I seem to have tastes that are just about opposite on everything the two of us weigh in on. But that's what makes the world go round. I'm sure we'll find common ground eventually. Would really like to shoot that 450 #2. I had a chance to shoot Retriever's awhile back while hunting with Larry Shores but I had a couple of busted ribs and fingers at the time and elected to sit out the shooting range that day  | |||
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Todd if you havent already met him you will like Tony and even his ugly rifles of which he has many, but he has some very nice double rifles as well that are more to your, and my liking! Like you, I concede to the Blasers accuracy, but again like you I hate the way they look, but my main objection to most of the so-called modern bolt rifles from Germany most are push feed, but if I had to use a push feed BOLT rifle the Blaser or Sauer would be my pick for reliability of feeding, and accuracy. Regardless of what Tony is shooting his shooting will impress you. I personally witnessed him shoot a trotting coyote at 278 yards, the first shot gutting him, causing him to spin in place, and the second barrel from the little Chapuis double rifle put him down for the count. That is a one two tap on a moving coyote at 278 yds with a double rifle. He does these things on a regular basis. You will enjoy your visit with Tony! Todd try to film some of this if you can, so the rest of the guys can see the shooting and exchange of opinion on the rifles! Good shooting guys! ........................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Yep...  Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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Dogcat, I have a Dakota Traveler in 375 H&H, it's been on a few safaris. Luckily, I haven't had any problems with it holding zero after being taken down. Surprisingly, it is one of my most accurate rifles! A takedown really travels nicely with a double rifle, which was a big benefit for me. Good luck with your decision. Jim | |||
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My favorite subject as all I own are magazine take down rifles. In fact, all I have purchased over the past 15 years. Will not buy anything else. So no reason to discuss doubles and they are the ultimate take down and my favorite. I have had no problems with HS Precision and think their interrupted thread design the best. Perfect zero upon assembly of barrel and scope. Multiple barrels. Downside is not a controlled feed, but I have never had a feed nor extraction problem. Not once. No tool required. Holland is superb but requires a much larger case than HS. Also perfect zero upon assembly. Only one caliber/barrel. Tool required. Dakota Traveler excellent and also perfect zero upon assembly. I am not fond of the assembly procedure nor the lock up. Personal opinion and no slam against the rifle. Also takes multiple barrels. Great action. Tool required. Dakota Outfitter. I actually prefer this to the Traveler as its design is similar to a H&H, holds perfect zero upon assembly, lighter in weight, and inexpensive. Tool required. So each has advantages. I have owned them all over the years and now selling my HS after being hounded to do so by a close friend. In the end I am keeping my double rifle and Dakota Outfitter. Different uses and will serve all my hunting needs. Sometimes less is more and I am getting old. Once one has gone the take down route it is very difficult to buy anything else. Air travel is a pleasure with one of these. | |||
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Thanks. You are all very helpful. | |||
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My custom take down...I am going to recheck zero anyway...I just disassemble it and put it back together.  too bad it was stolen... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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