Erik,

That be it, or more specifically:

http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=111

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Erik,

That be it, or more specifically:

http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=111

Ahh. But that requires that one signs up, and logs onto, that forum.

Here's Will's picture as posted on the other forum:

quote:

Originally posted by Will: Of course it is a "fitting" problem that will have to be done for a particular rifle, but in general it involves grinding down one of the bumps on the safety.

Why don't we all pool up and send BWN the money to have his CZ modified with a two position swing as 500grains mentioned. I'll throw in the first five bucks.

As for me, if anyone I was hunting with had the safety off (or had a gun without one, or with the bolt closed) with a round chambered, in anything but the final stage of stalk, I would throw a serious shitfit!

Can you imagine how embarrassing it would be if by some small chance something did happen and there was a misfire? Do you think that you're PH would have any respect for you after that? Wouldn't it ruin you're trip? It would make for interesting talk with the client after you about the bozo who just left.

Simply put, if you can't operate your saftey correctly, you can't operate your firearm correctly either.

I would never hunt that way, mainly out of respect for the people around me. I'm no PH but that's 5 bucks worth.

Like Saeed I always load my rifle or shotgun as soon as I leave the vehicle. All of the PHs or NA guides I have hunted with did the same. I have never had one ask me to carry a rifle with the chamber empty. I have seen a PH ask a client to carry his rifle with the chamber empty but he didn't ask me to do the same. I suspect the PH wasn't too comfortable with the safe carry habits of that client. I also never take the safety off until I raise the rifle to my shoulder. I have never felt the need to. In fact I have tried it and it is unconfortable for me to raise the rifle with the safety already off. Just something else to have to think about since it is not programed into my mind. I do unload the chamber at the vehicle whether a 4x4, snowmachine, boat, horse etc. I also unload when crossing a fence, while traversing steep rocky areas with unsure footing or when I hand it to someone else except for the rare occasion when I have a tracker carry it in DG country. I also watch that tracker closely to see how safely he watches where the muzzle is pointed. If he doesn't pass muster then I will not let him carry my rifle.

465H&H

bbt3.

Even though BillC has committed plagerism in copying my pic, that's it!

Any lawyers out there? I need to sue BillC for just enough to cover one of Buzz's Oreck elephant hunts.

Bill, I didn't copy your pict, I copied a url available on the Public Domain! http://www.hunt101.com/img/411756.jpg

Okay, okay, how's this for compensation: BUY BILL STEWART'S BOOK, IT'S GREAT!

AIGF

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
Bill, I didn't copy your pict, I copied a url available on the Public Domain! http://www.hunt101.com/img/411756.jpg

Okay, okay, how's this for compensation: BUY BILL STEWART'S BOOK, IT'S GREAT!

AIGF

Well, shucks. If you were a nice guy you'd just go ahead and pay for an elephant hunt anyway, for me that is!

AIGF: You'll have to be more obvious for old guys like me. I have no idea what that stands for. This isn't some sex chat room talk is it?

quote:

Originally posted by Will: AIGF: I have no idea what that stands for. This isn't some sex chat room talk is it?

Well, I guess it could be... "All In Good Fun". I just made this up to HSFWTGEH.



Sorry to all for the hijack, now…back to the "serious" question at hand:

quote:

Originally posted by BWN300MAG: Would you hunt a client who showed up a rifle which was missing its safety? Say the safety had been removed and you were hunting dg and pg. Would you let the client hunt with that rifle or would you make them use something else? Just wondering. Thanks for the replies. Brian

I didn´t bother reading the whole thread and I´m not a PH but never trust a mechanical safety.

Basic gunhandling 101

quote:

Hellre rik och frisk än fattig och sjuk.

I think this translates to "the only reason Kim is cast in "24" is because of her big boobs."

But I could be wrong.

Whether I trust a mechanical safety or not; I would feel very uncomfortable having someone walk behind me with a loaded and cocked rifle with no safety. Realistically speaking; how much time does a PH actually have to get to know his new client? The client arrives, you drive up to the concession and sight in rifles - next day you start hunting. Hardly enough time to "get to know" a client and his abilities - firearm-wise.

So I'm afraid my answer would unfortunately have to be "NO".

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I do unload the chamber at the vehicle whether a 4x4, snowmachine, boat, horse etc. I also unload when crossing a fence, while traversing steep rocky areas with unsure footing or when I hand it to someone else EXCEPT for the rare occasion when I have a TRACKER carry it in DG country. I also watch that TRACKER closely to see how safely he watches where the muzzle is pointed. If he doesn't pass muster then I will not let him carry my rifle.

465H&H

I absolutely will not let any tracker I've ever seen, carry a rifle of mine with the chamber loaded,or anyone else for that matter, but certainly not a TRACKER, period!

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Erik,

That be it, or more specifically:

http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=111

Ahh. But that requires that one signs up, and logs onto, that forum.

You mean the forum where cats/wynnwood is a moderator?

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by ErikD:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Erik,

That be it, or more specifically:

http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=111

Ahh. But that requires that one signs up, and logs onto, that forum.

You mean the forum where cats/wynnwood is a moderator?

Yes, I believe that is the one mentioned.

I remember being told never to rely on a mechanical safety. Good to have but not to rely on.

Has anyone here every tried a drop test on their rifle? ie cock the rifle on an empty chamber, put the safety on, and drop the rifle on the butt.

A lot of the old SMLE .303s would go off. I wonder how many newer manufacturerd rifles would too?

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I do unload the chamber at the vehicle whether a 4x4, snowmachine, boat, horse etc. I also unload when crossing a fence, while traversing steep rocky areas with unsure footing or when I hand it to someone else EXCEPT for the rare occasion when I have a TRACKER carry it in DG country. I also watch that TRACKER closely to see how safely he watches where the muzzle is pointed. If he doesn't pass muster then I will not let him carry my rifle.

465H&H

I absolutely will not let any tracker I've ever seen, carry a rifle of mine with the chamber loaded,or anyone else for that matter, but certainly not a teacker, period!!

As I have said before on this forum, I believe in carrying my own rifle whenever in DG country. Consequently, I agree with MacD37 if that is the intent of his position. If his intent is to say that trackers are not capable of carrying a loaded rifle safely then I disagree completely. Many trackers that I have hunted with have spent much much more time carrying a laoded rifle in DG areas than any of us have. One of my PHs an ex Parks officer never carried his rifle until the final approach. That seems to be a common Zim NP procedure. I have watched several trackers carrying a rifle and have been impressed with their safe gun handling. Better than most US hunters I have seen in the field or on TV. A loaded rifle in the hands of a safe gun handlinng tracker is another insurance policy against a dangerous situation. Safe gun handling is not restricted to American hunters.


465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Safe gun handling is not restricted to American hunters.


465H&H

I don't believe I said that safe gun handleing was limited to US citizens! I won't let anyone carry my rifle with the chamber loaded. I agree with you, some of the trackers I've seen were better at gun handleing than the PH I was hunting with! However if ranking is involved in this then I wll say there are normally three or four people in the party, and four out of five of them are normally, qualified to carry nothing more dangerous than a water bag, much less a rifle with the chamber loaded.

In this string, there is a lot of conflicting advice, some of it absolutely irresponsable. As some one said earlier, you have normally been around the people you are trusting to carrry your rifle for only a short time, and have no idea how these people will act in a crisis, but you are willing to let them carry your rifle with a round in the chamber? If they nned to shoot that rifle, to help someone, it takes a very short time to work the bolt to load the chamber! I'm 70 yrs old, and have been handleing rifles since the age of six, and have only had one accidental discharge in my life, and that was because of a faulty safety, letting the rifle discharge when it was pushed to the fire position, with the chamber loaded. I guess you know, or can guess what brand, and model rifle that was!

Not a PH, but I did guide a year or so for duck hunting.

I was always VERY cautious around strangers with firearms. I don' think I would hunt with anyone without a functioning safety.

In a perfect world, mechanical safeties wouldn't be needed, since the best safety is between your ears. But we don't live in a perfect world

If you have a safety, you can switch it on or off. If you don't have one, it is by default always off. I like choices.

I would hate to have my PH say ok, fly half way round the world and have a substitute PH at the last minute say no.

I really would like to see a PH or outfitter turn down a hunt of US$1000 a day just because the client didn't have a functioning safety on his rifle.

Come on gentlemen, get real!

My guess is for more than half of the clients that turn up and hunt, is that I wouldn't want them as a personal hunting partner with any sort of firearm.

My guess is lots of clients turn up with rifles with the price tags on them, with scopes not sighted in and not knowing they had to, to not knowing how the rifle works, to not being able to hit the target well, flinching, being half blind, getting drunk before hunting, boozing all night, accidental or negligent discharges, shooting the hat off the PH from behind, etc etc etc
ie from the stories I have been told.

And people are so concerned about a safety!!!


It is a money business and turning away clients that turn up having booked would KILL off your business just as fast as a bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
I really would like to see a PH or outfitter turn down a hunt of US$1000 a day just because the client didn't have a functioning safety on his rifle.

Come on gentlemen, get real!

My guess is for more than half of the clients that turn up and hunt, is that I wouldn't want them as a personal hunting partner with any sort of firearm.

My guess is lots of clients turn up with rifles with the price tags on them, with scopes not sighted in and not knowing they had to, to not knowing how the rifle works, to not being able to hit the target well, flinching, being half blind, getting drunk before hunting, boozing all night, accidental or negligent discharges, shooting the hat off the PH from behind, etc etc etc
ie from the stories I have been told.

And people are so concerned about a safety!!!


It is a money business and turning away clients that turn up having booked would KILL off your business just as fast as a bullet.

NitroX, I'm sure everything you stated has happened more than once, and I think you hit the nail on the head, with your doubt that a PH is going to turn down a $1000 per day hunt because of a faulty safety, However, he may insist on the client useing a camp rifle instead, or that he never load the chamber till the target in range. These things make the PH's job one of the most dangerous, even if he only guides for dove hunters!

However, saying you find it silly to worry about a SAFETY, under those cercumstances, is a little like a Doctor telling a smoker with emphsema that his ciggerettes don't matter, because there is already pollution in the air! The safety is not a sure thing, anyone knows that, but it is simply a hedge against a poor memory, or outright ignorance! Because people do dumb things, is no reason to add another dumb thing to their repertoire!

For the PHs on here. Here is a little test my first PH gave to his clients without them knowing they were being tested.

On our first day afield we set off following buffalo tracks. He had me walk in front of him immediately behind the lead tracker. I didn't know it but he was watching my gun handling technique. After a about three hours of tracking he then took over the second position. It wasn't until near the end of the safari that I tripped on what he had done. I asked him about it and he said that he always checked the clients out on the firat day and then adjusted how he handled the client after he evaluated them. If I client was unsafe he would require them to carry their rifles with the chambers empty until the final approach. He also told me that some of the least safe clients had the most experience in African hunting.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
... saying you find it silly to worry about a SAFETY ...

I don't think I have said those words ?

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
... saying you find it silly to worry about a SAFETY ...

I don't think I have said those words ?

quote:

My guess is lots of clients turn up with rifles with the price tags on them, with scopes not sighted in and not knowing they had to, to not knowing how the rifle works, to not being able to hit the target well, flinching, being half blind, getting drunk before hunting, boozing all night, accidental or negligent discharges, shooting the hat off the PH from behind, etc etc etc
ie from the stories I have been told.

And people are so concerned about a safety!!!

Not those exact words, but that is the meaning I took from your post quoted above! Sorry if I missunderstood, what your meaning was!

Mac

It really annoys me when people mis-quote me and put "other words" in my mouth.

What I was saying is if so many clients are already so hopeless why would not having a functioning safety be such a big deal in an outfitter accepting a client without one.

As for worrying on the internet, be my guest, people on the net seem to spend an extraordinary amount of time worrying on every tiny and not so tiny detail.

The best and only way to find out if anything is going to be an issue is to ASK the SPECIFIC OUTFITTER when booking. The gentlemen here asked for "PH's opinions" which is also fair enough.

All my firearms have a functioning safety. And I fire more than five shots a year out of them.

Nuff said. Fin. End.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
Mac

It really annoys me when people mis-quote me and put "other words" in my mouth..

John, please accept my second apology for what you percieved as my placeing words into your mouth! I assure you it wasn't meant that way. I rarely appologize twice for the same transgretion,but I think this is simply a misunderstanding!


My "OTHER WORDS" were what I thought was a simple paraphrase, of what I understood you to be saying, nothing more. I think, a post saying that what I read wasn't what you were trying to say, and explain your meaning,would have done the trick , rather than getting ticked off. I believe it should have been evident,to you, I had missunderstood your post, but frankly, after reading it again, I still get that take from your ACTUAL WORDS! Since, however, you say that is not the case, I have to accept the fact that it is now clear I missunderstood you.
......................

quote:

All my firearms have a functioning safety. And I fire more than five shots a year out of them.
Nuff said. Fin. End.

Just so I don't missunderstand the short quote above,from your latest post, and write something that puts words in your mouth, what is the meaning of this one, in your own words?
..............................