Incorrect, he actually states that he wants the animals to charge! The only way to do that is to violate the animal's personal space, even a red squirrel, when cornered, will attempt to bite a human being hundreds of times heavier than it.

The important question is: Is provoking a charge inhumane, cruel, unethical, etc?...as opposed to shooting an animal from afar and waiting minutes or hours for it to bleed to death. I would very much like to hear from hunters about this, I know PHs don't want their clients getting hurt and have no qualms about waiting a wounded beast out. If there is a "safari code of ethics" book, I have not seen it. I'm one of those that is waiting for evidence before I condemn anyone, friend or foe, to hell.

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
Oh yes, the bullshiter bit....

Mark Sullivan is a bullshitter and that is apparent on every video he's ever made. Forgive me because I cannot quote him, but I'm sure I remember something like this:

Well, we were just walking along minding our own business and this hippo came boiling from the pan and charged us...

Ja, right. It's amazing how many times these big movie maker chaps are just walking along minding their own business when all hell suddenly breaks loose.

David

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Speaking from a client hunter perspective, "The issue,.." I have with Mark Sullivan is Mark himself.

As a client I am not interested in spending hard earned money on my vacation or my families vacation to experience intentional charges, the ph intentionally taking my trophies for me or following up what look very obviously on the video to be intentionally wounded game.

My last trip to Zimbabwe was a family affair. My wife and step daughter hunted every day with me and were a part of at least ten buffalo stalks. I'm not sure any of us would have been comfortable with the intentional wounding, (obvious from Mr Sullivans video,) or the follow up and intentional charge with a 16 year and a 45 year old lady in the line of fire so to speak. Additionally, the two ladies would not have seen the humor in being left behind while the ph and I go off alone to provoke the charge and finish the animal off.

I have no doubt Mr Sullivan is a gentleman to talk to, provides a very accomodating and hospitable camp and would be a pleasure to ride around in the Cruiser with. However, based exclusively on Mr Sullivans videos which are produced in no small part to promote himself and/ or his business, I will not be contracting with his company to take my family on safari. That is my issue.

Just curious, where is it "obvious" in the MS videos, that he intentionally wounds game?

It would appear that you like to go dangerous game hunting with the family (should have taken the mother in law too) as long as someone can eliminate the danger for you. If there was any perceived danger in your "vacation" I am sure you would not have exposed your 16 yo daughter to it.

Maybe others, who have travelled half way around the world to hunt, don't mind a bit of an adrenalin rush.

I have seen videos on this sight of "hunters" braining a hippo, in the water, from a very safe distance, wow that's brave!

That's not hunting, it's sniping, and yes, even your daughter could pull off that stunt.

What has bravery got to do with it? Is that why we hunt, to try and be brave, or try and prove to others that we are brave? I have witnessed a number of hippo taken, on land and in the water, and I must confess I never thought about any bravery issues. I have also personally shot several hippo on land, and didn't think it was a particularly brave thing to do....BTW, none of them charged. I enjoy hunting for the challenge and thrill, whether I am on an elephant hunt or a bushbuck hunt, not to try and prove how macho I am. I know most hunters feel the same.

David

quote:

Originally posted by eurocentric:
Incorrect, he actually states that he wants the animals to charge!

Okay, sorry, my mistake...But thanks for the info, I can now rest my case.

quote:

Originally posted by eurocentric:


The important question is: Is provoking a charge inhumane, cruel, unethical, etc?...as opposed to shooting an animal from afar and waiting minutes or hours for it to bleed to death.

Why do we have to deal with extremes? Why can't we just take the shot when a decent opportunity presents itself?

quote:

Originally posted by eurocentric:
I'm one of those that is waiting for evidence before I condemn anyone, friend or foe, to hell.

A bit over the top I'd say...Nobody is condemning anyone to hell, some simply don't approve of the way others hunt.

Hi Dave,
A friend on AR once gave me some good advice. He said: "Don't wrestle with pigs! When you do...you both get filthy but the pig loves it!"

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Hi Dave,
A friend on AR once gave me some good advice. He said: "Don't wrestle with pigs! When you do...you both get filthy but the pig loves it!"

Thanks ledvm, ha ha ha. I am bored anyhow, best get back to my walkabout ASAP.

Cheers and I hope you are well sir.

David

quote:

Cheers and I hope you are well sir

I am well. How about you??? Nigel Theisen just left my home headed back to Joberg. We were making plans for our families to get together in Zim soon for a non-hunting trip. Maybe I will see you then.

"Death Rush"
by
Mark Sullivan
Professional Hunter

Simply stated, Death Rush is my best movie ever! For those of you not familiar with my work, this statement may not mean much. But take it from me, this movie has over-the- top adrenaline and will go down in history as the greatest dangerous game hunting movie ever made. Filmed enitrely on location in the beautiful country of Tanzania, East Africa during the 2005 hunting season, Death Rush takes you through nine complete hunts for monster rogue bull hippo on dry ground and huge Cape buffalo. Tossed in for good measure is a fantastic hunt for an incredible Selous bull elephant the likes of which any hunter would give his right arm for. You won't believe your eyes when you see the length of this guy's tusks.

But in particular, Death Rush features six kill or be killed--life or death charges of which one is the single finest charge I have ever experienced as a professional hunter. The beast in question is an old rogue bull hippo that I found deep inside a snake- infested korongo far away from any river or lake. As much as I hate to admit it, this great warrior almost got me and it was just by the Grace of God that I was not killed. Although my first shot hit him in the head at something less than three lengths of my double rifle, my 750 grain .577 bullet missed the brain and on failing to kill him, the enraged beast kept coming and I remember thinking he was going to kill me on the spot. Instead, his massive 7,000 pound torso came hurling down to within spitting distance of the tips of my shoes and I was just able to ram a thumb-sized slug into his brain before he could close the deal. The footage of this charge is nothing short of amazing and even if I were given another 100 tries, I could not film it better than it already is. Guaranteed, you will watch this charge over and over again for as long as you live or until you wear it out. Warning! Do not lend this movie to a friend because you will never get it back!

There are three other spectacular hippo charges, anyone of which is as good as anything you've ever seen in your life, and two Cape buffalo charges to compliment the movie.

I know I'm going to be asked this question for the rest of my life so I might as well answer it now. Why so many charges in a single season? Just lucky I guess. Some years are better than others. You see, I'm not into killing something for the sake of killing, but I love hunting and for me, the ethical hunting of dangerous game means walking up an giving the gallant warrior the choice of how he is to die in battle rather than deciding his fate for him by blasting him into oblivion from a safe distance. By giving him the choice (and the opportunity), I know he will do one of two things; he will either run away or charge. It's that simple.

But whichever he chooses, it is the animal that decides how and when he's going to die. By the same token, if he charges and I don't do my job correctly; I die a horrible death. Even with that prospect hanging over my head, my philosophy in hunting dangerous game has always remained the same; I love it when they charge and I hate it when they run. Like I say, some years are luckier than others and this was one such year.

If you like the thrill of watching Africa's most dangerous game charge, if you like seeing people putting their lives on the line, risking everything in the face of certain death; then you will love this movie. Death Rush is unlike anything you've ever seen before. To quote a line from the great Ted Nugent who has been so gracious in giving his unconditional endorsement of this movie, "Mark Sullivan has outdone Mark Sullivan. The man rocks!" I hope you enjoy the movie as much as I have bringing it to you.



"Death At My Feet"
by
Mark Sullivan
Professional Hunter

I consider Death At My Feet to be my all-time greatest hunting achievement and one that will probably never be duplicated again. By anyone's measure, this is the greatest kill or be killed, blood-on-the-shoes hunting movie ever made.

Never in the history of African hunting has a professional hunter so willingly walked up to wounded Cape buffalo and rogue bull hippo under these extremely dangerous conditions. Only by placing myself in this death-zone of the personal space of hippo and buffalo, am I able to practice my personal philosophy on hunting dangerous game. My unique manner and method of hunting is different from all other PHs and this movie proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt, once and for all. Period!

Using my much trusted and beloved .600 Nitro Express double rifle and its 900 grain bullets, Death At My Feet features two extraordinary buffalo charges and one incredible rogue bull hippo charge with all three beasts dropping dead at my feet. It is without question the absolute best kill or be killed footage ever recorded.

I want you to watch Russell LaFave's buffalo bull absorb six shots from the massive .500 Jeffery and let me know what you would do if it was your job to stop him. Would you have played it safe and shot him from a safe distance or would you have walked up to him and let him charge?

There are six other heart-pounding hunts including what many say was the largest tusked elephant taken that year in Tanzania. Expertly filmed, riviting footage as it actually happened, Death At My Feet is played out on some of Africa's finest hunting grounds.

In my opinion, this is the best hunting film ever made. Highest broadcast quality, Superbly edited. Own yours today!



"Africa's Black Death"
by
Mark Sullivan
Professional Hunter

I have been a professional hunter in Tanzania, East Africa since 1990; the year I made my first documentary safari film, Africa's Black Death. Since its introduction to the world, Africa's Black Death has become the largest selling dangerous game hunting film of all time. The events depicted in that movie, more specifically the blood-on-the-shoes buffalo charge, have forever changed me life.

The movie legends are made of, Africa's Black Death, features over 20 buffalo kills either in complete hunts or in hi-lite footage along with three magnificently maned lion. Never before have audiences been entertained with so much great footage in a single movie. Black Death is forever a part of history.

Black Death was filmed in what is now the "famous" Moyowosi Game Reserve. But, back then the Moyowosi was a little known and seldom visited hunting block. On any given day I would routinely see a thousand buffalo or more in a days hunting. Great maned lion of 10 years of age and older were considered common and every client got one. Unique to the Moyowosi, the lions there seldom fed off a bait. Instead, because game was so plentiful, these big cats simply preferred "fresh" meat to any smelly, "old" bait that I might have offered.

The famous Black Death buffalo charge is a charge for all time. It was the morning of August 16, 1990 when my client Roy Barnes and I drove out from camp in what was to become one the greatest days of my life.

Even though this was my first year as a professional hunter, I knew how I wanted to hunt. I believed in certain things then as I still believe in those same things today. The ethics and discipline I bring to the sport of hunting have not changed.

Rather than shooting the bull in the back as he lay on the ground, I realized I had once again been afforded the opportunity to practice dangerous game hunting my way. I would walk up and let the wounded Cape buffalo decide how he is to die. By doing so, I knowlingly and willingly was offering my life in return. One thing is for certain, you cannot walk up to a wounded and greatly pissed- off Black Death if you are not first prepared to die yourself. You can only do what I did then and as I have done every hunting season since, if you are prepared to pay the ultimate price; your very life on this Earth.

The Black Death charge is the ultimate hunters' thrill. Enjoy it to the max, I have.

"Sudden Death"
by
Mark Sullivan
Professional Hunter

In 1995 I conducted my safaris in one of Tanzania's most remote and beautiful regions called Mlele. Located along the northeast boundary of Katavi National Park, Mlele holds a wealth of game including great maned lion, heavy-thick leopard and truly big buffalo.

My son, Shawn was with me that year and together we were remarkably successful in finding lifetime trophys for all of our clients. In this movie you will see Allen Day and Doug Hart shoot two of the biggest and nicest buffalo ever taken on film. Later, Allen bags a monster leopard that weighs nearly 180 pounds that we unexpectedly catch feeding on our lion bait. Not to be outdone, Russ Brice takes a great leopard of his own right through the shoulder with his .416 Rem. as the big tom staddles a fork in the tree. Also included are hunts for lion, more buffalo and hippo.

Rounding off the season in spectacular fashion is a hunt to the death from a charging Cape buffalo. Longtime friends over many safaris, Doug Hart and Russ Brice join Shawn and me for what becomes a hunt to-the-death.

Russ' first shot was well-placed, but the bull runs off at speed. Taking up the blood trail instantly, it's not long before Shawn spots the bull in thick bush and points him out for us to see. As we close the distance and upon entering what I call the death- zone the bull comes from out of his hiding place and stands watching us, trying to decide what next to do. We stand our ground, guns at the ready, and wait. At that point in time, any one of us could have raised our rifle and killed the bull where he stood. But we all knew that would simply be killing, not hunting. Instead, we wait for the charge which is not long in coming.
There is nothing so grand as to witness a bull's charge to the death. You can criticize me all day long for what we did; that by intentionally provoking the bull to charge was somehow inhumane, but I disagree. Any jerk can blast a wounded Cape buffalo into oblivion from a safe distance and call it hunting, but it's an altogether different matter to walk up and offer your life in return. Believe me when I say this, had we not stopped that bull's charge, he would have killed everyone of us. That my friends, is the beauty and thrill of real hunting. Walking up and giving the great and noble warrior the choice of how he is to die in battle may be the last great adverture left on Earth. Try it, it's a great way to hunt.

Sudden Death is beautifully filmed, highest broadcast quality, and wonderfully edited.

"Death On The Run"
by
Mark Sullivan
Professional Hunter

November 6, 1996 is a day that I will remember forever. It is the day that I shot and killed the charging buffalo that adorns the front cover of this movie. I was hunting with Hector Gonzalez, a first time client. Upon his arrival into camp, Hector turned to me and said that it was his dream to have a buffalo charge. The events leading up to that day seemingly fell into place and Hector got his wish. I consider this to be one of the finest buffalo charges of my professional hunting career and I've had many of them. This hunt also illustrates perfectly my unique and often criticized manner and method of hunting dangerous game for which I make no apology. From beginning to end, you see it all!

Also included in this movie are three truly amazing hunts for huge great maned lion taken by my good friends Doug Hart, Russ Brice and Steve Milam. We also shoot some monster leopards and even more massive solitary old buffalo bulls. And if this were not enough, you will witness the greatest hippo charge of all time.

In 1993 Doug Hart came to hunt with me in the Selous Game Reserve. Nearing the end of his safari we came upon a great old rogue bull hippo resting quietly in a small pool of water. It would have been a simple matter for Doug and I to raise our rifles and kill the bull from a safe distance, but that is not how true hunters hunt. Instead, Doug and I walked shoulder to shoulder directly towards the grand warrior, to violate his personal space. The great bull rushed off at top speed only to stop, turn and charge us a second later over bare, hard ground. Life or death, for the hunter and the hunted, unfolds before you.

Death On The Run has some of the greatest kill or be killed hunting footage ever recorded. It's an amazing movie and a must for your collection. This is also the first year that I used a .600 Nitro Express double rifle and its 900 grain bullets. The effect this gun has on game must be seen to be believed.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Cheers and I hope you are well sir

I am well. How about you??? Nigel Theisen just left my home headed back to Joberg. We were making plans for our families to get together in Zim soon for a non-hunting trip. Maybe I will see you then.

That would be excellent. How long do you think you'll be out for? We must make a plan. Just let me know when.

Cheers, David

quote:

How long do you think you'll be out for? We must make a plan. Just let me know when.

We are only in the planning stage but will definitely let you know!

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Speaking from a client hunter perspective, "The issue,.." I have with Mark Sullivan is Mark himself.

As a client I am not interested in spending hard earned money on my vacation or my families vacation to experience intentional charges, the ph intentionally taking my trophies for me or following up what look very obviously on the video to be intentionally wounded game.

My last trip to Zimbabwe was a family affair. My wife and step daughter hunted every day with me and were a part of at least ten buffalo stalks. I'm not sure any of us would have been comfortable with the intentional wounding, (obvious from Mr Sullivans video,) or the follow up and intentional charge with a 16 year and a 45 year old lady in the line of fire so to speak. Additionally, the two ladies would not have seen the humor in being left behind while the ph and I go off alone to provoke the charge and finish the animal off.

I have no doubt Mr Sullivan is a gentleman to talk to, provides a very accomodating and hospitable camp and would be a pleasure to ride around in the Cruiser with. However, based exclusively on Mr Sullivans videos which are produced in no small part to promote himself and/ or his business, I will not be contracting with his company to take my family on safari. That is my issue.

Just curious, where is it "obvious" in the MS videos, that he intentionally wounds game?

It would appear that you like to go dangerous game hunting with the family (should have taken the mother in law too) as long as someone can eliminate the danger for you. If there was any perceived danger in your "vacation" I am sure you would not have exposed your 16 yo daughter to it.

Maybe others, who have travelled half way around the world to hunt, don't mind a bit of an adrenalin rush.

I have seen videos on this sight of "hunters" braining a hippo, in the water, from a very safe distance, wow that's brave!

That's not hunting, it's sniping, and yes, even your daughter could pull off that stunt.

What has bravery got to do with it? Is that why we hunt, to try and be brave, or try and prove to others that we are brave? I have witnessed a number of hippo taken, on land and in the water, and I must confess I never thought about any bravery issues. I have also personally shot several hippo on land, and didn't think it was a particularly brave thing to do....BTW, none of them charged. I enjoy hunting for the challenge and thrill, whether I am on an elephant hunt or a bushbuck hunt, not to try and prove how macho I am. I know most hunters feel the same.

David

I take your point that you enjoy the "challenge and the thrill".

Are either applicable to braining a hippo in the circumstances described above?

I doubt it, yet when certain members of the forum do exactly that, most of the comments are along the lines of...."great hunt, congratulations, nice shot...etc etc", yet those same members are quick to condemn someone who puts his sorry ass in a position where it can get spanked.

You are right, maybe "bravery" was the wrong choice of word, let's go with "challenge and thrill", it still doesn't change my point.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lhook7:
David,

Don't waste any time on JF. Look at the posts he has made in his 23 days of membership on the forum. He is a troll who has been banned under other aliases.[/QUOT

Gee Cap'n Hook, I only wish I was young enough to grow up and be like you, with your obvious immense talents as a hunter.

Nice of you to notice how long I have been a member of this esteemed forum, you aren't stalking me, are you?

He doesn't have to stalk you. He can see that you're a newbie by the way that you screwed up the quotation of his post and the fact that everyone's join date is at the bottom of each post that they make.

I don't have any opinions on Mark Sullivan because I've never met him, never seen any of his video's, read any of his writing or seen any of his posts online.

I'm only contributing to this string because I like to point out "stupid" when I see it.

Oh gee Mr. Fjold, apologies for being a "newbie". One day I hope to have as many posts as your good self, although that would take a lot of bullshitting, maybe you could teach me?

I that your trophy girlfriend in your avatar? if so......lucky man!!

Against my better judgment, I guess that I must give my opinion. Please note that I state it is MY OPINION, to which I am entitled. Many will likely disagree, which is your prerogative.

I know Mark Sullivan, but only in passing. Last time I remember speaking with him was when he boarded my Amsterdam bound KLM plane in Dar. I had boarded earlier in Arusha. I have never hunted with him. A cyber-friend of mine, Mr. Allen Day, a person that I respect and admire, hunted a couple or more times with Mark. Allen is a very experienced hunter and a veteran of numerous African safaris. He's not a man to mince words or bear around the bush. He has nothing but glowing comments about Mark as a PH.

Having said that, has anyone given any thought to the fact that the real culprit might well be something else--like the hunting video itself! In my view, hunting is not a spectator sport. Hunting is between man and nature, and is best done without an audience. To the observer, it consists of hours of boring stalking or sitting, culminating in a few seconds of breathtaking excitement. Not exactly the winning formula for the Academy Awards is it?

How much excitement can the observer get from watching a hunter tracking a buffalo bull for miles and miles, finally catching up with him in the mopani scrub. The hunter closes to within thirty yards, plants a good bullet through the lungs, and waits for the death bellow. That's it, its over. Is that exciting or what? The task of the filmmaker is to figure out a way--or artificially devise one--to add excitement and adventure to what would ordinarily be a mundane subject to anyone other than the actual participants.

This is one reason for all the ridiculous high-fives, hee-haws, and backslapping we see on numerous hunting shows. It would be much more exciting if someone actually fell out of his tree stand, shot himself in the foot, or caught his pinky in the bolt of his rifle! I suspect that this is also the reason for so many charges "captured" on film.

I have hunted for more than sixty years now, a goodly number of which was in dangerous game country. Other than on my Visa, I've been charged one time--by an unwounded, but very mad, sow brown bear. Why was she so mad, you might ask? Danged if I know, as all I did was to breathe in her little corner of Alaska. Unfortunately, I had to kill her, though I would have greatly preferred not to. Was it exciting? Well, I can only say that it provided about all the excitement that I could handle in one day!

I know several professional hunters, a few of whom have become dear friends of mine over the years. Each of them has, on rare occasion, had to sort out a dicey situation. These guys spend more time in the bush in a single season that most of us do in many years of hunting. Even with all that exposure, they seldom have to kill an animal that is a danger to them or their clients, and they do it without a camera rolling. That tells me something.

Tom

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lhook7:
David,

Don't waste any time on JF. Look at the posts he has made in his 23 days of membership on the forum. He is a troll who has been banned under other aliases.[/QUOT

Gee Cap'n Hook, I only wish I was young enough to grow up and be like you, with your obvious immense talents as a hunter.

Nice of you to notice how long I have been a member of this esteemed forum, you aren't stalking me, are you?

He doesn't have to stalk you. He can see that you're a newbie by the way that you screwed up the quotation of his post and the fact that everyone's join date is at the bottom of each post that they make.

I don't have any opinions on Mark Sullivan because I've never met him, never seen any of his video's, read any of his writing or seen any of his posts online.

I'm only contributing to this string because I like to point out "stupid" when I see it.

Oh gee Mr. Fjold, apologies for being a "newbie". One day I hope to have as many posts as your good self, although that would take a lot of bullshitting, maybe you could teach me?

I that your trophy girlfriend in your avatar? if so......lucky man!!

I'm sure that if you stay on the boards for 7+ years and ask a lot of question, thank people for informative posts, compliment people on their trophy shots and express appreciation for detailed hunt reports, etc. you can have a post count as high as mine. If on the other hand you just troll posts and insult people you probably won't stay long enough to do so.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lhook7:
David,

Don't waste any time on JF. Look at the posts he has made in his 23 days of membership on the forum. He is a troll who has been banned under other aliases.[/QUOT

Gee Cap'n Hook, I only wish I was young enough to grow up and be like you, with your obvious immense talents as a hunter.

Nice of you to notice how long I have been a member of this esteemed forum, you aren't stalking me, are you?

He doesn't have to stalk you. He can see that you're a newbie by the way that you screwed up the quotation of his post and the fact that everyone's join date is at the bottom of each post that they make.

I don't have any opinions on Mark Sullivan because I've never met him, never seen any of his video's, read any of his writing or seen any of his posts online.

I'm only contributing to this string because I like to point out "stupid" when I see it.

Oh gee Mr. Fjold, apologies for being a "newbie". One day I hope to have as many posts as your good self, although that would take a lot of bullshitting, maybe you could teach me?

I that your trophy girlfriend in your avatar? if so......lucky man!!

I'm sure that if you stay on the boards for 7+ years and ask a lot of question, thank people for informative posts, compliment people on their trophy shots and express appreciation for detailed hunt reports, etc. you can have a post count as high as mine. If on the other hand you just troll posts and insult people you probably won't stay long enough to do so.

That seems like a lot of "thanking, appreciatng and complimenting", so I guess I had better get started.

Thankyou Mr. Fjold.

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

Just curious, where is it "obvious" in the MS videos, that he intentionally wounds game?

It would appear that you like to go dangerous game hunting with the family (should have taken the mother in law too) as long as someone can eliminate the danger for you. If there was any perceived danger in your "vacation" I am sure you would not have exposed your 16 yo daughter to it.

Maybe others, who have travelled half way around the world to hunt, don't mind a bit of an adrenalin rush.

I have seen videos on this sight of "hunters" braining a hippo, in the water, from a very safe distance, wow that's brave!

That's not hunting, it's sniping, and yes, even your daughter could pull off that stunt.

Hard to think replying is anything other than a waste of Saeeds money but as he makes it available,....

Sadly enough I didn't record the exact moment in the specific video that the dg are intentionally wounded. Many others seem to have the same opinion that it does occur, perhaps they could assist.

Yes, the family does travel and hunt with me some. Ma in law has fished with us before but doesn't seem to share a passion for hunting. As to eliminating danger, I consider myself quite the wild adventurer. Frequently while vacationing, I exceed the speed limit on the highway by as much as 6mph, don't fasten my seatbelt until reminded to do so, consume new and unusual food and drink with out a taste tester, and even fly as a passenger in an airplane! Gawd but I shock even myself.

How you feel comfortable making insinuations about me defies reason.

What hippos or hippo hunting has to do with me I dunno. Never mentioned it, not at this moment particularly interested in it.

If your adrenalin rush comes from an intentionally provoked charge from wounded dg, God Bless you. I sincerely hope you live many long years and pass from this earth a happy soul. If I ever read or hear of some retard named John Frederick gored and killed by a wounded dg he was following up on I'll grunt, shrug my shoulders, scratch my ass and move on.

Reply and insult til the cows come home if it fills your inflated ego for today. I've finished my peanut butter and jelly sandwich and am returning to the safety of my bathtub.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

Just curious, where is it "obvious" in the MS videos, that he intentionally wounds game?

It would appear that you like to go dangerous game hunting with the family (should have taken the mother in law too) as long as someone can eliminate the danger for you. If there was any perceived danger in your "vacation" I am sure you would not have exposed your 16 yo daughter to it.

Maybe others, who have travelled half way around the world to hunt, don't mind a bit of an adrenalin rush.

I have seen videos on this sight of "hunters" braining a hippo, in the water, from a very safe distance, wow that's brave!

That's not hunting, it's sniping, and yes, even your daughter could pull off that stunt.

Hard to think replying is anything other than a waste of Saeeds money but as he makes it available,....

Sadly enough I didn't record the exact moment in the specific video that the dg are intentionally wounded. Many others seem to have the same opinion that it does occur, perhaps they could assist.

Yes, the family does travel and hunt with me some. Ma in law has fished with us before but doesn't seem to share a passion for hunting. As to eliminating danger, I consider myself quite the wild adventurer. Frequently while vacationing, I exceed the speed limit on the highway by as much as 6mph, don't fasten my seatbelt until reminded to do so, consume new and unusual food and drink with out a taste tester, and even fly as a passenger in an airplane! Gawd but I shock even myself.

How you feel comfortable making insinuations about me defies reason.

What hippos or hippo hunting has to do with me I dunno. Never mentioned it, not at this moment particularly interested in it.

If your adrenalin rush comes from an intentionally provoked charge from wounded dg, God Bless you. I sincerely hope you live many long years and pass from this earth a happy soul. If I ever read or hear of some retard named John Frederick gored and killed by a wounded dg he was following up on I'll grunt, shrug my shoulders, scratch my ass and move on.

Reply and insult til the cows come home if it fills your inflated ego for today. I've finished my peanut butter and jelly sandwich and am returning to the safety of my bathtub.

I'd be seeking medical advice re. that itchy ass, could be worms.

Just a bit of advice from one "retard" to another.

quote:

but I love hunting and for me, the ethical hunting of dangerous game means walking up an giving the gallant warrior the choice of how he is to die in battle rather than deciding his fate for him by blasting him into oblivion from a safe distance. By giving him the choice (and the opportunity), I know he will do one of two things; he will either run away or charge. It's that simple.

If this is not the silliest excuse for provoking the charges I don't know what.

But, I suppose one has to thump his own chest to show how brave he is.

I wonder why Mark Sullivan does not follow buffalo that have been wounded and gone into thick bush?

Someone should ask him why he leaves them to die a long lingering death.

At least those he could not kill from the safety of being on the back of the truck, with the video cameras turned off!

This is giving me a headach.

Please refer to my several earlier posts on other threads seeking first-hand accounts. Idaho put this very well, above.

Screw the damn videos: EYE WITNESS TESTIMONY needed. Best I can tell, Sullivan makes a fine living doimg, and saying, outrageous things. That is called "marketing." Sort of Ann Coulter, but with a double rifle. And shorter hair.

If he truly is a bad guy, someone who has seen it needs to say so, and describe what they have seen.

I can tell that, it's causing you to drop letters from the pain. HeadachE.

Easy judgement to make, just borrow (I wouldn't ask anybody to waste their own money buying one of his videos, unless they believe Pro Wrestling is real) one or more of the videos or read the above posted descriptions by MS himself.

Rich

Pro wrestling isn't real?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I wonder why Mark Sullivan does not follow buffalo that have been wounded and gone into thick bush?

Someone should ask him why he leaves them to die a long lingering death.

At least those he could not kill from the safety of being on the back of the truck, with the video cameras turned off!

When I created this thread, I was looking for some reasoned and unemotional posts that would explore the underlying issues regarding the broad dislike for Mark Sullivan. And I've been impressed with many of the genuinely insightful opinions expressed by folks like Matt Graham, Mark Young, MacD37, NE450 No2, John Frederick, David Hulme, 458Win, Quickshot, Gerrypeters375, Scott King, and several others. (Sure there's been some one-on-one bickering and a few 'postcard' hijacks, but otherwise there have been some very sober and considerate posts.)

But a discussion on Mark Sullivan, and his place in our community, invariably seems to degenerate into mind-numbing, malicious, and unproven attacks like the one by Saeed above. Of course it's become something of a refrain by several who, while not necessarily being fans of Sullivan's, nevertheless believe that unfounded accusations have no place in a gentleman's conversation. Granted, you may not like his videos, or the way he hunts, or the cut of his jib, but nothing gives one license to hurl allegations that amount to character assassination without a scintilla of evidence.

On the one hand, I think the evidence is clear that Mark Sullivan has a 'participatory' view of shooting his clients' game - at least on enough occasions depicted on his videos to where this is not easily disputed. Not every animal or with every client, to be sure, but often enough to where this criticism seems valid.

But as has been stated by others over and over and over again, where is the evidence for his deliberately wounding game? There is none! No less a person than Dave Fulson, who at one time accompanied Sullivan on numerous hunts, says that he never witnessed such behavior - and he was Sullivan's videographer at the time!

And with all due respect to Saeed, where is your evidence that Sullivan:

• Does not follow wounded buffalo into thick bush?
• Leaves wounded buffalo to die a long and lingering death?
• Shoots buffalo from the back of a truck

I guess I am still perplexed as to why those folks who hate Sullivan - people like Saeed - find it inadequate to simply say, "I don't like that Mark Sullivan refrains from killing a buffalo as quickly as possible and instead taunts the wounded animal into charging." That would not only be understandable, but also reasonable and supported by facts.

Instead of making a defensible point, attacks like Saeed's are rendered impotent when they are girded by unsubstantiated rumor, innuendo, or unfounded allegation.

KPete, I think the last paragraph in your well considered response,above,says it all.

quote:

• Does not follow wounded buffalo into thick bush?
• Leaves wounded buffalo to die a long and lingering death?
• Shoots buffalo from the back of a truck

I got all of the above from people who were with him at the time.

They don't want to get into a pissing match on the forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

• Does not follow wounded buffalo into thick bush?
• Leaves wounded buffalo to die a long and lingering death?
• Shoots buffalo from the back of a truck

I got all of the above from people who were with him at the time.

They don't want to get into a pissing match on the forum.

Well then, those allegations cannot be substantiated and should be disregarded. We all know that he could finish wounded animals faster than he does, but not following up in thick bush and shooting from the truck cannot be proven. Unless someone who was actually there steps up to the plate and proves it.

Cheers, David

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

• Does not follow wounded buffalo into thick bush?
• Leaves wounded buffalo to die a long and lingering death?
• Shoots buffalo from the back of a truck

I got all of the above from people who were with him at the time.

They don't want to get into a pissing match on the forum.

Of course they don't. Why doesn't that surprise me?

quote:

Originally posted by TWL:
Pro wrestling isn't real?

is too...

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

• Does not follow wounded buffalo into thick bush?
• Leaves wounded buffalo to die a long and lingering death?
• Shoots buffalo from the back of a truck

I got all of the above from people who were with him at the time.

They don't want to get into a pissing match on the forum.

Of course they don't. Why doesn't that surprise me?

Does a written statement as dictated to me by a computer illiterate Game Scout or gun bearer that accompanied Mr Sullivan on several hunts count for this purpose?

I would love to see that, now that's something concrete and tangible.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

• Does not follow wounded buffalo into thick bush?
• Leaves wounded buffalo to die a long and lingering death?
• Shoots buffalo from the back of a truck

I got all of the above from people who were with him at the time.

They don't want to get into a pissing match on the forum.

Of course they don't. Why doesn't that surprise me?

Does a written statement as dictated to me by a computer illiterate Game Scout or gun bearer that accompanied Mr Sullivan on several hunts count for this purpose?

So far I have not seen any evidence convicting Sullivan of the things he's been accused of doing.

BUT based on his videos and books, this is what opinion I have:

- He Purposely provokes animal charges by not waiting for the animal to bleed to death, he violate its personal space. He has stated this in print, in person and in film. If he is going against tradition then the tradition must be examined/
- He has shot game which clients have paid money to hunt. I have noticed that some repeat clients have learned to pull the trigger a hair earlier than Sullivan in order to have the satisfaction of actually delivering the killing shot. I cant phantom for the life of me, why would someone do that. If I were hunting with him or any other PH i would make sure I have discussed the rules of engagement prior to starting the hunt.
- His personality is completely the opposite of mine, I am not fearful of any animal I have ever hunted, but that does not mean I have to loud and boastful. I don't speak much during hunts but I observe everything.
- I would have a lot more respect for his form of hunting if he actually paid for his own licenses to hunt and eliminated the client altogether, I would grant him that this is his form of "extreme hunting" and leave it at that.
- Not all clients who have hunted with him are psychopaths, death-wishers or mentally handicapped. although, some of them have made me wonder....


I wonder if his banishment has been due to his comments on his new book, where he tackles other writers and shoots back against those that have made negative comments towards him...

If you reply to my posts, pls no insults...deal with me on a rational basis.....

quote:

Originally posted by eurocentric:
I wonder if his banishment has been due to his comments on his new book, where he tackles other writers and shoots back against those that have made negative comments towards him...

That's an interesting point. For those that don't know, Mark Sullivan has written two books - expensive coffee table types - that show photos of his safaris, clients, and guns. In his most recent (published last year I think) he goes out of his way to not only defend himself from his detractors, but also to attack more mainstream PHs and even the likes of Craig Boddington.

As I have said before, I'm not a fan of Mark Sullivan - as my post below demonstrates - but I don't allow myself to criticize him for behavior for which there is no evidence. In this case, there is more than enough evidence to take Sullivan to task.

If you're interested, I posted the following last year in response to a member who has actually hunted with Mark Sullivan. In it I recount quotes by Sullivan regarding his hunting style, his dislike of one-shot kills, and his opinion of folks like Boddington.

quote:

Originally posted by fatbutnotdead:
Craig Boddingtom, who I’m sure, is a gentleman (I’ve never met the man) seems to be worshiped on this forum and anybody who is a detractor is summarily executed by the “mob”. Ivan Carter, who I have met, is treated the same way, he seems to be worshiped and people line up to pour compliments and accolades in his direction. I spoke to him about a hunt but never had the luxury. I’m sure he also is the up most gentlemen and very qualified professional hunter.

Now, enter Mark Sullivan who I have hunted with, who has the exact same profession as Ivan is continuously maligned. Why, is it the “on camera attitude” is it his success? Or is it that he unlike many of us chose to follow his dream and actually became a professional hunter?

It just to me seems very hypocritical to judge Mark differently than the other two who all “kill for the camera” and for a profession.

I've had the opportunity to meet all three gentlemen, albeit briefly. Each is personable and confident that they hunt in a professional and ethical fashion. But in answer to your question, there are fundamental differences between them. Several of those differences have already been cited in this - and many other posts, but here are a few for your consideration:

1) Boddington & Carter make every effort to achieve one-shot kills. If they are unsuccessful, they immediately follow-up their first shot with as many additional rounds as are required to kill their prey quickly and humanely. Sullivan, on the other hand, has a self-professed dislike for one-shot kills, and always hopes for a wounded buffalo. He says, "I will admit I do not like one-shot kills on buffalo. They do nothing for me. I find them boring. I have often said that the hunt for buffalo begins with the first drops of blood. When a client happens to run a bullet through the engine room, and the bull packs it up a short distance later, I am not elated."

2) As a PH, Carter will only shoot at a client's animal if he feels the first shot was not a killing wound and there is a chance the animal could be lost. Sullivan, with rare exception, will predictably shoot at a client's animal, often simultaneously with the client's first shot. Describing a typical hunt, Sullivan writes, "I yelled for Mark (also the client's name) to shoot! At my command, Mark and I yanked our front triggers as if they were one with both shots hitting the brain". And in what can only be humiliating for the client, Sullivan frequently appears gloating before the camera about how his client's shot was "just a little off the mark", and that his own was the killing shot.

3) Boddington and Carter rarely trumpet their personal skill, expertise, or daring. They are content with letting the viewer decide such matters. Sadly, Sullivan has lately taken every opportunity to compare and contrast his machismo and hunting prowess against those he sees as competing for the public's attention (dead or alive) including Boddington, Dawson, Dowsett, Marsh, Burger, Lake, Woods, and Robertson. Indeed his criticism of these writers and PHs is often scathing, belittling, and sadly infantile. For example, he quotes Kevin Robertson from his book 'Africa's Most Dangerous' as saying, "Listen carefully. If all went well, you should hear the death bellow within a few minutes. It's a sound that, once heard, is instantly recognizable and never forgotten. No matter how many times I hear it, it still gives me a cold shiver. My skin prickles, and the hairs on my arms stands erect." Sullivan follows this up with, "I'm confused here; does this guy have a penis or a vagina? When I hear a buffalo it makes me mad as hell because it means the bull is down never to get up again. It means the hunt for this animal is over."

4) I've never heard or read either Boddington or Carter belittling clients or fellow hunters. They always comport themselves as gentlemen in such matters. Sullivan seems to relish the opportunity to ridicule his clients, other PHs, and hunters in general. About his own clients he writes, "Simply put, clients generally cannot hit the broadside of a barn let alone the broadside of a Cape buffalo (sic) under normal hunting conditions." "Clients are, by their very nature, horrible shots and that is the truth." Later he writes, "I am often asked, 'what does a client have to do before I will take him to experience a buffalo charge?' ... I will only agree to risk your life if I really like you."

5) Boddington and Carter seem to most everyone that have gotten to know them as pretty laid back and non-judgmental. That can hardly be said of Sullivan, who takes everyone in the industry, including his own clients, to task for everything, including their choice in equipment and rifles. For example, Sullivan has a near rabid hatred for, of all things, binocular strap harnesses. He writes, "Nowadays, I see more and more the use of binocular bras, as I like to call them. I see them used so frequently in hunting movies that I am beginning to think it's a status symbol to see whose bra is bigger. I like my women bra-less and my binoculars the same way ... but guys, listen you're way out there if you know what I mean and the look you give off wearing the damn thing reminds me of the Navy's 'don't ask - don't tell' policy" He then alludes to Craig Boddington and Andrew Dawson's 'Boddington on Buffalo' video, and writes, "... both wore binocular bras. The co-producing client added that he has been on over 50 safaris and he wore one too. The instant I saw these guys wearing those bras, I knew they didn't have the balls to walk up to a buffalo and invariably shoot their hippo from the safety of a riverbank..." Interestingly, he wrote this on a page depicting one of his own clients kneeling beside a buffalo - wearing one of his despised 'bino bras'. I'm sure the client feels well respected for this courtesy shown by Mr. Sullivan.

In a further gratuitous swipe at Boddington, he goes on to describe seeing him (though he is careful not to name him) on the same 'Boddington on Buffalo' video wearing a recoil pad at the rifle range. Sullivan says, "A shooting bra, for those of you living in Rio Linda, is a sissy device for sissy shooters that looks like a one-cup bra worn to protect the shooter's shoulder from the gun's recoil. I saw it worn by (Boddington) and never laughed so hard in my life. So much so, I called to my wife to come and see for herself. She came running and sat down beside me and we roared like a couple of lions ... the only thing missing from the ensemble was a nice pencil-eraser nipple. There isn't enough money in the Federal Reserve to get me to wear one because there is no way you will ever get me to look like a pussy." I dare say that a search of Col. Boddington's writings would fail to reveal similar insults about Sullivan or anyone else, for that matter.

6) On such prosaic matters as the proper caliber ammunition for dangerous game, both Boddington and Carter approach the subject in a matter of fact, and in the case of Craig, scientific fashion. Indeed, Boddington has written two authoritative books on the subject. Sullivan, on the other hand, has what can only be described as a rather fringe approach to the subject. His personal choice is either a .600 NE or .700 NE for buffalo - pretty extreme, but if that's what floats his boat, why not? What is more difficult to understand is his loathing of double rifles in .470 NE - and apparently the hunters who carry one. Calling it a ladies caliber, he writes, "When your butt is on the line, and push comes to shove; (sic) a .470 is but a spit-wad hitting a blackboard. If anyone tells you differently, they are displaying their ignorance badly. Do not trick yourself into believing a .470 will solve your problems. If anything it may create bigger ones. A .470 is a small gun ... (and is) a good defensive gun, but a poor offensive one." And as with his 'bino bras', he generously posts a photo of his 'best friend' Doug Hart kneeling next to a reedbuck he had shot with a .470 that Sullivan had sold to him! I guess if you're going to be a friend or client of Mr. Sullivan, you had best be prepared to see the less-than solicitous side of him once you're out of his sight.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I felt that perhaps a more detailed examination was finally in order as to reasons for the broad acceptance of Craig Boddington and Ivan Carter on this board versus the general disdain for Mark Sullivan. I don't pretend to have covered all the reasons here, nor can I speak for any other member of AR, but the record is fairly replete with facts that demonstrate that there is a world of difference between these guys, and more than enough cause to "judge them differently" as you said in your post. In sum, Boddington and Carter are hardly "worshipped" by board members as you contend; rather, they are respected for their demeanor, ethics, and contributions to our sport. It is perhaps in these areas that Sullivan falls somewhat short. [The above was originally posted by KPete on 16 May 2009]

quote:

I know several professional hunters, a few of whom have become dear friends of mine over the years. Each of them has, on rare occasion, had to sort out a dicey situation. These guys spend more time in the bush in a single season that most of us do in many years of hunting. Even with all that exposure, they seldom have to kill an animal that is a danger to them or their clients, and they do it without a camera rolling. That tells me something.

quote:

Craig Boddingtom, who I’m sure, is a gentleman (I’ve never met the man) seems to be worshiped on this forum and anybody who is a detractor is summarily executed by the “mob”. Ivan Carter, who I have met, is treated the same way, he seems to be worshiped and people line up to pour compliments and accolades in his direction. I spoke to him about a hunt but never had the luxury. I’m sure he also is the up most gentlemen and very qualified professional hunter.

Now, enter Mark Sullivan who I have hunted with, who has the exact same profession as Ivan is continuously maligned. Why, is it the “on camera attitude” is it his success? Or is it that he unlike many of us chose to follow his dream and actually became a professional hunter?

It just to me seems very hypocritical to judge Mark differently than the other two who all “kill for the camera” and for a profession.

I see all the above in much the same light.

And your assessment is very real!

Have hell arguing with KPete though...as reading his post make me cross-eyed...probably much like reading the health-care bill (if we could) or the Obama budget!

KPete,

Very well researched post. I agree with you completely. Judge the man on evidence not on rumor.

I believe that the "evidence" is overwhelming that Marc hunts in a very unprofessional manner. Imagine that he was hunting in Zim and did the same thing that he does in the videos. Someone doesn't hit the charging buff right and it severely maims or kills the client. Now imagine the civil suit against him for needlessly putting his client into danger. Would he be found libel? What would the reaction of the Zim Nat. Parks be as to whether he kept his PH license? I am wondering about those two issues.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

quote:

Originally posted by John Frederick:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

• Does not follow wounded buffalo into thick bush?
• Leaves wounded buffalo to die a long and lingering death?
• Shoots buffalo from the back of a truck

I got all of the above from people who were with him at the time.

They don't want to get into a pissing match on the forum.

Of course they don't. Why doesn't that surprise me?

Does a written statement as dictated to me by a computer illiterate Game Scout or gun bearer that accompanied Mr Sullivan on several hunts count for this purpose?

I don't know, you tell me.

Why not post the said statement and we can all decide?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

I know several professional hunters, a few of whom have become dear friends of mine over the years. Each of them has, on rare occasion, had to sort out a dicey situation. These guys spend more time in the bush in a single season that most of us do in many years of hunting. Even with all that exposure, they seldom have to kill an animal that is a danger to them or their clients, and they do it without a camera rolling. That tells me something.

One thing it tells me, is that they are not in the DVD market.

quote:

One thing it tells me, is that they are not in the DVD market.

Mr. Fredrick,
Congrats...you finally said something logical!

I have come to the conclusion that Mark Sullivan, PH will replace military intelligence as my favorite oxymoron.

Rich