When checking lion baits recently and having discussions about whether or not the hairs left behind were from a lion that was old enough to hunt, I began thinking of how nice it would be to have one of my game cameras from home with me that could have taken a pic of the lion in question to determine if he was a shooter. These cameras could very easily contribute to saving lots of time and effort for the hunting party, as well as possibly help prevent the shooting of a lion that later was deemed too young. That said, I'm not aware of anywhere in Africa where such tactics are now being used, and I suspect, the reason centers around the excessive use of technology and doing things "the traditional way."
If too much tech help is the reason for avoidance of this type of equipment, and I'm not trying to make the case for or against it, couldn't we say the same thing about a high powered rifle topped with a scope that will let you pick off an animal cleanly at 200+ yards as compared to guy that still uses a spear?
When is technology too much tech? What sort of modern-day tools are over the line of acceptance to you? Would you be open to having a digital trail cam in your safari camp?

It's hard to say, but personally, I WOULD draw the line and exclude game cameras from safari hunting operations. I don't know of anyone who employs such devices anyway.

Besides, it's fun and educational to watch a professional hunter examine lion hairs and pug marks to determine the characteristics of a given lion. Part of an old, old safari tradition, and personally, I want to live it while it's still there to be had........

AD

I need to watch the DVD again, but I think in He's In the Tree Andrew Dawson of Chifuti uses trail timers to see when a leopard is feeding. I need to double check that.

I agree with Allen on the educational value of watching a really good PH do his magic, and if tradition wasn't important to me, I wouldn't hunt with Double rifles almost exclusively. OTH, I would like to have the pictures that a game camera could furnish, simply because they would be pictures I couldn't get any other way, with the added time saver if he isn't what we want. That way we could stop feeding him, and use another bait sight.

I have no real problem with technology used in bait hunting, especially when time starts to get short. I know Andrew Dawson, one of the best Leopard PHs in Africa, uses a little battery timer attached to his baits to be able to tell what time the cat is hitting the bait. His explanation of this is, he wants to know if the bait is being hit before,you get to the bait, or just after you leave the blind. He says if the cat is hitting the bait immedietly after you leave the blind, then the cat has made you, and something different needs to be done, or if he is hitting just before daylight, then you need to stay all night in the blind.

Sometimes if the cat has made you, and is waiting for you to leave, you can back track him in the daytime, and find where he is waiting you out, and set up an ambush, fairly early in the day, and catch him coming in!!

That little $15 trail timer, can give you a lot of information, that tracks may not tell you, or even a very good PH! However, I believe as long as you don't use spotlights, shoot from the vehicle, or run animals down with a hunting car, you are OK. One must decide what is ethical, within the law, for him personally. I say if you want to use a trail camera, and it is legal, go for it!

Vic

I don't have an answer to your question but it would seem particularly with cats that the techno gadgets would diminish the experience at least for me.

In Botswana last year we did put up some very expensive game cameras provided by a client coming after our hunt. We mounted them to trees at various pans to see what was coming to drink. I guess when the cameras went off they bugged the hyenas because they ate them. We literally found almost nothing left of them.

Regards,

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I guess when the cameras went off they bugged the hyenas because they ate them. Mark

Wahahahahahaha! Man, hyenas not only will eat anything but have a really wicked sense of humor as well. Maybe I don't want a hyena skin rug, after all, if that's the way they think. Point for ol' Fisi!

When I was in RSA earlier a couple of months, JJ Hack brought along a homemade trail camera which was very interesting.

He did not use it for hunting as such, but set it over the gut/waste pile from the skinning shed. He would check it each day and its presence added a little more interest/fun to the proceeding.

I can see why some people could have misgivings about using them to hunt cats however...Myself, I am not sure how I feel on the subject..

I believe a trailcamera would only provide confirmation of what, to a large degree, a good PH should know anyway, but I don't think they would make that much difference if your PH is crap anyway..

Regards,

Pete

I believe this is again another case were a personal standard is involved. I would tend to agree that a camera would detract from the traditional feel of the hunt and the anticipation of not knowing what will show up. Having said that, in countries where the 6 year minimum lion age is in place, tradition has pretty much gone out the door since traditionally a hunter could take any mature lion. As the regulations get more and more restrictive, we may be forced to make use of technology to overcome those artificial restrictions. Just my thoughts.

Sarge,

I thought it was pretty cool that the hyenas ate the cameras too. Just shows what wierd and wonderful animals they are. I also like my hyena rug but one is enough.

Mark

in my humble opinion the use of anything more advanced than a hammer is to much. especially these #$@%#&@#%^#% computers

Well, I guess I have to bring up the guy in Texas who'll let you aim a rifle and shoot deer over the internet...

It looks like that'll be illegal in '06 tho'

Good thing I think

A lot of PH's use the cameras already for the cats. Too late to object now, as it's past history.

Does it really help for identifying cats at bait? I doubt it, as young leopard (read little, like little cubs) and female leopard get whacked later quite often, BY MISTAKE.

It is mostly used for determining when a cat comes to the bait, and this has been done for a long time with a string tripping a timer when the cat strikes it. Does it really do much good at getting a cat? Probably not, but it's fun to know what is going on at a bait site.

Everyone has to make their own ethics calls. However, I don't see the issue as an African issue. There is no difference in using a trail cam to identify a shootable lion or a Boone and Crockett buck. In either case, you are using technology to make hunting time more efficient. When a government decides doing this with a helicopter or plane is to big of an advantage, then it becomes illegal. Up to that point, its a personal choice.

in many cases today, (IMHO) most technology is getting to be too much. People dont use their minds and common sense anymore. They want machines and computers to think for them.

In hunting, go to the woods and enjoy the experience. Let nature present to you what it will by chance.

This is a great question, and one I have thought about long and hard myself. Personally, I think that it is ethical to use an appropriate firearm in a suitable calibre topped with an optical sight, because I believe this leads to the most humane kill possible. Beyond that, I used to avoid the use of any device requiring a battery. Now I use a GPS and walkie-talkies. I do restrict their use to preventing myself from getting lost, but I often ask myself if this is the first step down the slippery slope.

Vehicle usage is probably the most problematic. Do you use a vehicle to get to the game field, and then hunt on foot, or is it OK to use the vehicle to spot for game. If vehicles are not OK to hunt from, then how about horses? If hunting from a vehicle allows you to cover more ground, faster, and spot from a higher perspective, then doesn't a horse do the same thing?

These are questions that we have to answer for ourselves, within the broad framework of generally accepted fair chase practices.

As I understand it, in the "old" days it wasn't uncommon to post a "kafir" at a water hole or bait and have him run back to camp to tell the hunting party when an interesting animal appeared. It wasn't like they weren't using every means at their disposal to make things harder, that was the last thing on their mind. Making things easier was their main objective. They used horses when they weren't in TseTse fly areas and in fact foot hunting was a hardship reserved for those areas. Let's don't take nostalgia too far off track.

I agree with several - I hate computers but they are reality.

Here are a couple of items that may or may not cross the line

Binoculars
Range finders
Rifle Scopes
ATV's
Hunting vehicles
game cameras
GPS devices
cell phones
radios in the field

THe list can go on and on and include smokeless powder, non-cast bullets, and even rifles.

This is a bit like golf- clubs change, balls change, courses change.

I think it is up to the individual to hunt in a manner that does not conflict with his personal ethics.

I would like to see SCI, DU and others take a strong stand on ethics (hunting behind high fences, trophy contests, etc.).

It won't happen.

The bit of technology I like is a rifle and ammunition.
It beats digging pits, setting traps and laying snares.

It seems to be a careful balance between technology, safety, and the thrill of real safari hunting. When you get the lump in your stomach upon seeing the high fence, then you know that it has been carried too far. The thrill of the hunt is the stalking, tracking, and then the unknown. The animal must have a sporting chance. When it isn't any more then I am finished.

Dak

I've just started using trail timers and movement detectors on my Leopard hunts and have to say I like them. I recently took 2 big Leopards out of the same tree 16 days apart. (and won 2 bottles of whisky by doing so!) The first one gave us a wait of an hour or so before putting in an appearance and the second one appeared after only 20 minutes....... personally I don't have a problem using that level of technology - but would be equally happy not to do so should the client so prefer it.

My last client bought a set of NVG's with him and although not necessary, they were also a lot of fun.

As for the thrills - I got plenty of them on the first of the 2 hunts when I had to go and find a very angry pussy cat in the dark

The second one made a wonderfully satisfying soggy plop as he hit the ground dead.....

quote:

Originally posted by hikerbum:
in many cases today, (IMHO) most technology is getting to be too much. People dont use their minds and common sense anymore. They want machines and computers to think for them.

In hunting, go to the woods and enjoy the experience. Let nature present to you what it will by chance.

Well, for once anyway you have this Texan agreeing with a New Yorker (never would have thunk it). I have mixed feelings on the subject. On the one hand we do have too much technology involved in hunting and it detracts from the pure essence of the sport. On the other hand, when hunting cats in Africa, thus traveling that far, and spending all that money with limited time, I cannot fault using the camera's (though I have never done it). I have hunted with Chifuti the last two seasons and seen Andrew use a trail timer. I took a Leopard with his partner Paul Smith last year and we did not use one.

There is still a few PHs around that can tell if its a good lion or not by the sign it leaves, but you gotta get away from the farmers with PH licenses...