while being laidup i've been watching to damn much tv. anyway there seems to be this thing about one shot kills. guy shoots, animal runs away giving chances for several followup shots and after a few minutes expires. what a bunch of bullcrap. I've got to much respect for any animal i'm hunting to leave it alive one second longer than is necessary. as long as he's breathing i'm still shooting. and if that idea offends anybodys ego - tough chit flocking tv

butchloc,

People do odd things in front of a camera

On dangerous game if the animal is close and well positioned for lung or heart then I generally advise otherwise. If the conditions are right then maybe a follow up with a solid.

Broadside lung is deadly and the animal will shortly expire with very little distress.

My 2 cents.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
while being laidup i've been watching to damn much tv. anyway there seems to be this thing about one shot kills. guy shoots, animal runs away giving chances for several followup shots and after a few minutes expires. what a bunch of bullcrap. I've got to much respect for any animal i'm hunting to leave it alive one second longer than is necessary. as long as he's breathing i'm still shooting. and if that idea offends anybodys ego - tough chit flocking tv

Pretty much every hunting program on TV today; buddy lines up his shot, touches one off.

If there is a solid hit, the whole bunch begin slapping hands, yelling and dancing around.

Plus throw in a bunch of contrived emotion...

There is never an attempt to hit it again.

Untill animal expires I will not feel satisfied
Hate when people say " You got him"
I always say " not until it's down "

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
while being laidup i've been watching to damn much tv. anyway there seems to be this thing about one shot kills. guy shoots, animal runs away giving chances for several followup shots and after a few minutes expires. what a bunch of bullcrap. I've got to much respect for any animal i'm hunting to leave it alive one second longer than is necessary. as long as he's breathing i'm still shooting. and if that idea offends anybodys ego - tough chit flocking tv

Pretty much every hunting program on TV today; buddy lines up his shot, touches one off.

If there is a solid hit, the whole bunch begin slapping hands, yelling and dancing around.

Plus throw in a bunch of contrived emotion...

There is never an attempt to hit it again.

I forgot to mention, then they pose the animal and sit about 6' back of it, to make it look like bigger than it is.

Nothing worse then a bunch of idiots shooting a 5' bear then hooping and hollering about how 'big it is...' while they sit way in behind it.

Or never bringing the camera higher than ground level so that a 120 class whitetail looks enormous. Come to think of it, all the fishing shows do the same thing.

So what's the focal length used on the photo at the top of the page?

Hey, how is that new knee coming along? Make sure you do the therapy or you won't regain your full range of motion, which for you is from the dinner table to the sofa :-)

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
while being laidup i've been watching to damn much tv. anyway there seems to be this thing about one shot kills. guy shoots, animal runs away giving chances for several followup shots and after a few minutes expires. what a bunch of bullcrap. I've got to much respect for any animal i'm hunting to leave it alive one second longer than is necessary. as long as he's breathing i'm still shooting. and if that idea offends anybodys ego - tough chit flocking tv

Totally agree, you covered my thoughts well.

If I am thinking that I made "The Great Shot" and I do not have very near instant collapse, like falling by the time I cycle the action, more bullets are down range.
If it looks as if attempting to get up, or kicking and thrashing about, more rounds down range.
My intent is to kill the animal as quickly as possible. And many things can happen between trigger pull and bullet arrival which can turn "The Great Shot" into a rodeo.
I have no desire to see something stumbling/staggering around or departing wounded.

When I fire the first shot and he doesn't go down there, as long as I can see him on his feet I'm shooting! Thankfully I haven't had to do more than a double tap and a walk up a place an insurance shot very often.

..................................................................... ...

quote:

posted 29 September 2016 03:22 Hide Post
Hey, how is that new knee coming along

knee is coming along and arm works good enough to work the remote and turn off the blaser adds

I hate to think how many wounded animals are lost, or suffer unnecessarily, due to the mugging for the camera, and dry-humping of the entire hunting party, immediately after “the shot” is fired. For an ethical hunter, they should be the most focused of any time of the hunt immediately after the initial shot.

The worst example I’ve seen was a Marco Polo sheep hunt a few years ago. The well-known hunter made a gut-shot on his sheep and then immediately tackled his hunting partner for a roll around in the grass. Fifteen seconds later the cameraman frantically interupts their make-out session as the sheep is hobbling around the hill in the background. I’m sure much worse garbage goes on, but the editors usually hide it better than that.

I worry not only about the game suffering, but in the bigger picture for the future of hunting I’m concerned for the new hunters whose primary resource to learn about hunting is through many of these fake TV shows. The TV shows may be a lost cause at this point, but we can each do our part to try to help influence new hunters we contact to hunt ethically and humanely.

Dead is when the animal is being loaded up, as far as I'm concerned. I once shot an impala that went down like it had been hit with a bolt of lightning. Taking my time getting over to the 'kill', with congratulatory handshakes and pats on the back, from the PH, trackers and skinners, as we stood over the downed Impala, discussing the stalk, up it came and off it bolted, never to be seen again. I had 'spined' it,(to use an African phrase). I have seen actual footage of dangerous game jumping up and charging hunters who were unloading their rifles and handshaking, only to have the PH or themselves make a last ditch shot to save the day. Remember: It's the dead ones that will kill you'

My buddy called a nice bull moose in one time, right at dusk.

The bull came in grunting and raking trees all the way, and stopped broadside about 30 yards away.

He says, "He's too small, don't shoot!"

Me, "Hell with that! I'm taking him!"

I shoot dead center of the lungs. Moose took one step. No other reaction.

Shoot again, dead center again. Moose took one step. Still no reaction.

Third shot, same result...

Fourth shot, another dead center, and moose is still standing, but finally looking a bit shaky.

All four shots were from a .338WM and 250gr Nosler Parts.

Finally the moose turns and starts to walk away.

I tell my buddy, "Take him! He's getting away!"

Buddy, "Oh for fucks sake! It's dead on it's feet!"

But he gave it one more, also with a .338WM and 250gr NP.

All four of my shots were drilled right through that moose, and there were four little strips of blood and lung tissue, showing the exact path each bullet had taken, as it passed through him.

And sure, I did know the moose was dead on his feet. But I always shoot until the critter falls.




This moose took 5 250gr NPOs before he decided to tip over...

Fireman I hunted elk with shot a bull just before dark. I was up on the hill 2-300yds and watched it. Frank took his jacket off, leaned the rifle against a tree, rolled up his sleeves and started to work. I was with 50 feet about that time. When the bull shook his head and hit Frank on the thigh just under the pocket tearing a hell of a gash 4-5" long in his leg.

Since I was close and saw it happen, he jumped back and I shot the bull to finish him off. He never got up, or even tried, just shook his head. Frank was just unlucky to be in the way.

We were 9 miles up the canyon on foot. He held it closed and told me how to 'butterfly' the tear. I made a rough 'camp' so he could spend the night and headed back to the ranch. Five of us got back up there around 3am horse back and he was doing just fine. Rode out to the ranch and his brother took him into Gunnison 50 miles to have it stitched up.

Lessons learned fellows!

Another time Dad and I were elk hunting and he spotted a bull 400yds off on a hump higher than he was. Walked right at him and got just about 200yds when the bull spotted him. The edge of the hump was in the way of a rested shot. He took an offhand and hit it in the back. Then ran up there to finish it off. About 50 yds the bull charged him dragging his hind end. Dad kneeled and brained him.

Animals in pain only have one goal left and that's take a big bite out of whoever hurt them or gets within reach.

George

Butchloc, well said. If it's moving, lead is flying, and I'm not waiting for the PH or guide to tell me to shoot again. If they say stop, I'll listen while being ready for another if it presents itself.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray B:
So what's the focal length used on the photo at the top of the page?

That is a bit of a joke Ray (and contived). When you are here long enough you may be let into the story behind it.jc

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:
My buddy called a nice bull moose in one time, right at dusk.

The bull came in grunting and raking trees all the way, and stopped broadside about 30 yards away.

He says, "He's too small, don't shoot!"

Me, "Hell with that! I'm taking him!"

I shoot dead center of the lungs. Moose took one step. No other reaction.

Shoot again, dead center again. Moose took one step. Still no reaction.

Third shot, same result...

Fourth shot, another dead center, and moose is still standing, but finally looking a bit shaky.

All four shots were from a .338WM and 250gr Nosler Parts.

Finally the moose turns and starts to walk away.

I tell my buddy, "Take him! He's getting away!"

Buddy, "Oh for fucks sake! It's dead on it's feet!"

But he gave it one more, also with a .338WM and 250gr NP.

All four of my shots were drilled right through that moose, and there were four little strips of blood and lung tissue, showing the exact path each bullet had taken, as it passed through him.

And sure, I did know the moose was dead on his feet. But I always shoot until the critter falls.




This moose took 5 250gr NPOs before he decided to tip over...

I've had a similar experience on a smaller moose. As it turns out it was also with a .338 but that is just coincidence. Took the whole mag though, about as fast as you can say bang, bang, bang, bang. Some animals will use their last firing neuron to stay on their feet. The same feet that they are dead on. I do know that if you don't shoot again when things aren't going perfectly you will one day live to regret it.

Then don't watch the bow hunting shows!

How many times has some yahoo gone on about a perfect behind the shoulder shot while using the lighted nock arrows and it clearly is in the abdomen.

Not that the deer was not dead... But it WAS gut shot. Not something I would want to eat...and strangely enough, they usually talk about "donating venison to the hungry"

On our Tracks, Dark and Dangerous, and Sports Afield shows we go to great lengths to avoid the "admire your shot nonsense." We tell our hunters to follow their own shot up if the animal is alive, and certainly have stressed that point to our hunters AND viewers for over a decade.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray B:
So what's the focal length used on the photo at the top of the page?

I think that picture was intended to be a joke.

Another example of what can happen with even a "little" black bear:
http://www.outdoorhub.com/news...-black-bear-thought/

quote:

Originally posted by Kyler Hamann:
I hate to think how many wounded animals are lost, or suffer unnecessarily, due to the mugging for the camera, and dry-humping of the entire hunting party, immediately after “the shot” is fired. For an ethical hunter, they should be the most focused of any time of the hunt immediately after the initial shot.

The worst example I’ve seen was a Marco Polo sheep hunt a few years ago. The well-known hunter made a gut-shot on his sheep and then immediately tackled his hunting partner for a roll around in the grass. Fifteen seconds later the cameraman frantically interupts their make-out session as the sheep is hobbling around the hill in the background. I’m sure much worse garbage goes on, but the editors usually hide it better than that.

I worry not only about the game suffering, but in the bigger picture for the future of hunting I’m concerned for the new hunters whose primary resource to learn about hunting is through many of these fake TV shows. The TV shows may be a lost cause at this point, but we can each do our part to try to help influence new hunters we contact to hunt ethically and humanely.

Perfect! My exact sentiments.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
On our Tracks, Dark and Dangerous, and Sports Afield shows we go to great lengths to avoid the "admire your shot nonsense." We tell our hunters to follow their own shot up if the animal is alive, and certainly have stressed that point to our hunters AND viewers for over a decade.

Well, I may have to watch your shows, then. I gave up watching TV hunting shows 10+ years ago, I try to watch a couple every few years but the fake emotions, general asinine commentary and behavior, along with the constant sponsor pumping made me want to vomit.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
On our Tracks, Dark and Dangerous, and Sports Afield shows we go to great lengths to avoid the "admire your shot nonsense." We tell our hunters to follow their own shot up if the animal is alive, and certainly have stressed that point to our hunters AND viewers for over a decade.

Well, I may have to watch your shows, then. I gave up watching TV hunting shows 10+ years ago, I try to watch a couple every few years but the fake emotions, general asinine commentary and behavior, along with the constant sponsor pumping made me want to vomit.

Yup. I can't stand watching hunting shows. I used to like "American Sportsman" back when I was a kid, but I don't remember it being the way shows seem to be now.

I just got back last week. I discussed this very issue with the PH. He estimates that 9 out of 10 clients just stand there after the first shot. He didn't think it was the desire for one shot kills. Clients seems to go in a trance.

Me? I shoot as long as they are moving .

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I just got back last week. I discussed this very issue with the PH. He estimates that 9 out of 10 clients just stand there after the first shot. He didn't think it was the desire for one shot kills. Clients seems to go in a trance.

Me? I shoot as long as they are moving .

What ??? After the first shot You don't sit there and light a cig like Biebs and hope and pray some else kills the animal

Mike

Mikey, you burn through a 30-round banana clip before you even open your eyes to see what happened! :-)

You guys crack me up constantly !

You have to use your judgment.

On anything that I'm going to eat, I don't want it shot to hell. If I'm confident that the first shot was good, then generally that's it. If not, then I'll follow it up as needed.

But on anything that might eat me, I shoot it until it falls down and stays down.

No banana clips, though!

In an effort to claim the moral high ground on this issue, let me just say that I shoot, and shoot again. Again and again. I keep shooting and reloading until my bandoleer ammo holder is empty. Then if the truck isn't too far, I go and get more ammo and shoot some more.

There. That ought to do it!

I actually had to go back to the truck for more ammo once. Generally I shoot until the animal is on the ground and dead.

Mark

quote:

let me just say that I shoot, and shoot again. Again and again. I keep shooting and reloading until my bandoleer ammo holder is empty

Todd, trying to hit something with those double rifles can be a bit frustrating, I guess :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
In an effort to claim the moral high ground on this issue, let me just say that I shoot, and shoot again. Again and again. I keep shooting and reloading until my bandoleer ammo holder is empty. Then if the truck isn't too far, I go and get more ammo and shoot some more.

There. That ought to do it!

In July when I was hunting axis in Hill Country I had to walk back a mile to the truck to get more ammo. I need a bandoleer.

Mike

Well, I though I could claim the moral high ground of shooting the most out of everyone here but I guess I need to up my game a bit.

So once I shoot everything in the belt, and all my ammo in the truck, I borrow the PH's rifle and shoot all of his ammo as well. Then, I grab the game scout's AK and empty his banana clip, but they usually only have about 3 rounds in them.

If another outfitter's truck happens by, I'll ask to borrow one of their guns and shoot all of their ammo just to make sure.

I'm a shooting son of gun!!

That ought to do it now.



If not, maybe we can stir up a debate on the African Carry!

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

let me just say that I shoot, and shoot again. Again and again. I keep shooting and reloading until my bandoleer ammo holder is empty

Todd, trying to hit something with those double rifles can be a frustrating, I guess :-)

Yes, but you just can't shoot the double very fast. EVERYONE KNOWS a bolt rifle is faster, right?

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

let me just say that I shoot, and shoot again. Again and again. I keep shooting and reloading until my bandoleer ammo holder is empty

Todd, trying to hit something with those double rifles can be a frustrating, I guess :-)

Yes, but you just can't shoot the double very fast. EVERYONE KNOWS a bolt rifle is faster, right?

Of course..but what really matters is if you're a Bowhunter or not...everyone knows Bowhunters are the only real hunters.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
In an effort to claim the moral high ground on this issue, let me just say that I shoot, and shoot again. Again and again. I keep shooting and reloading until my bandoleer ammo holder is empty. Then if the truck isn't too far, I go and get more ammo and shoot some more.

There. That ought to do it!

It must take you a month to get through a bandolier of ammo Todd considering how slow a double is to reload.

There. That ought to REALLY do it.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
In an effort to claim the moral high ground on this issue, let me just say that I shoot, and shoot again. Again and again. I keep shooting and reloading until my bandoleer ammo holder is empty. Then if the truck isn't too far, I go and get more ammo and shoot some more.

There. That ought to do it!

It must take you a month to get through a bandolier of ammo Todd considering how slow a double is to reload.

There. That ought to REALLY do it.

Now we're getting somewhere!

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

let me just say that I shoot, and shoot again. Again and again. I keep shooting and reloading until my bandoleer ammo holder is empty

Todd, trying to hit something with those double rifles can be a frustrating, I guess :-)

Yes, but you just can't shoot the double very fast. EVERYONE KNOWS a bolt rifle is faster, right?

Of course..but what really matters is if you're a Bowhunter or not...everyone knows Bowhunters are the only real hunters.

When I bow hunt, I shoot every arrow in the quiver. Then go to the truck for more.