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Here are some photos of a barnes banded solid shot from a 416 remington, recovered from buffalo. One of those two fired as a back up shot on a facing away buffalo penetrated from infront of the rear right leg and was found infront of the front left leg on a facing away buffalo. Thats a whole lot of penetration.   Arjun Reddy www.huntersnetworks.com | ||
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They look just like the BBS fired from my .600 nitro--no distortion. They seem to work very well but are non traditional in form or function. For a solid mono bullet, are there any better? Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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I've fired the same on several buffalo. I typically get a pass through on a side shot and stem to stern penetration (no pass through) on frontal and Texas heart shots. Shot the same into an elephant's ear hole . . . lacked about two inches being a pass through. Same for hippo head shot . . . almost passed through. Will J. Parks, III | |||
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Since the advent of premium soft points, solids have no longer been required on Cape Buff. After using the Swift A-Frame for years and then experiencing a problem with their 500gr .458 bullet, I've switched to the CEB BBW#13 NonCon. SIL used it from a .416Rem on a chest heart shot of a Buff two months ago with dramatic effect. After the petals shear, what remains is a straight penetrating solid base. Truely the next generation of bullets, IMO. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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After the petals shear, what remains is a straight penetrating solid base. Truely the next generation of bullets, IMO.[/QUOTE Is that not what the old CT Failsafe bullet did and was critized for it?? NRA Life Member, ILL Rifle Assoc Life Member, Navy | |||
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raamw - Go to the Big Bores forum and read the 260 pages of the Terminal Bullet Performance thread, it is saved as the top entry, and all your questions will be answered. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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I know the Failsafe was not made for the 416 but I have used then in 375 and had favorable results on moose. I like the ability of shedding the pedals and turning into a solid, simple more penetration more damage. I have always believed in penetration and use more gun than what is generally thought of acceptable since only under kill is criticized never over kill. NRA Life Member, ILL Rifle Assoc Life Member, Navy | |||
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I agree with that I used the solids as a back up on one buffalo and a finishing shot on another, which was down with a 416 A frame as the first shot. | |||
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What is the big deal? I have made the exact same shot on a buffalo bull with a Woodleigh soft and it was found under the skin after penetrating the shoulder bone and I suspect it did a lot more damage on its way then the solid did. 465H&H | |||
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I had two A Frames against the offside skin on a large Zambian Buffalo. 95% weight retention, perfect performance, and my PH had me leave all the solids in the box. with the exception of Elephants, you simply don't need them in a .416 Remington. Love that effing cartridge! Phil Massaro President, Massaro Ballistic Laboratories, LLC NRA Life Member B&C Member www.mblammo.com Hunt Reports- Zambia 2011 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1481089261 "Two kinds of people in this world, those of us with loaded guns, and those of us who dig. You dig." | |||
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@465 Your experience shows the problem of comparing animal to animal. Every trajectory is unique and depends on what is encountered inside the animal. I just recovered a 350 grain TSX (416 Rigby) from the neck of a buffalo shot in the face, off-center toward and under its left eye. Only 63% of the bullet remained and it was squashed and bulged in the head, after having dropped its petals. It was a very traumatized TSX. It was shot at over 2800 fps and obviously experienced some extreme trauma in its short terminal trajectory. The buffalo dropped on the spot even though the brain was not hit, nor the spine. But 5500 ftlbs of impact energy (6200 ftlb muzzle) was transferred by that bullet. I'm glad I was not using a smaller calibre or light load. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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So was that a charge you stopped? What was the range? If close 2800 fps into the skull would be a tough test for any bullet. | |||
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Pretty similar to a Nosler Partition. The newer versions in 375 caliber and up retain close to 80% on their weight after shedding the front core. They probably still have a larger frontal area remaining that the shank however I believe I have some data Michael did for me in 416 and the NP's actually penetrated deeper in a 400 gr through his medium than any other soft. Not by much (1-2") but they were the deepest penetrator. Seems like we have come full circle... | |||
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While I have shot a pile of both small and large beasts with my .416, passthrough potential using solids increases significantly. You just have to be more patient and understand that you may have to pass on non-optimal shooting opportunities. Unless ele is on the menu or you’re the PH backing up the client, solids would not be my first choice for .375 or .416. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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I have also seen tests in ballistic gelatin where 160 grain Nosler Partitions from a 280 AI and a 180 grain NP from a 300 Win out penetrated similar weight Barnes TSXs. 465H&H | |||
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Thanks! I'll remember that on my next gelatin hunt!!  A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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But your safe if your are hunting wet pack paper and using the TSX!  465H&H | |||
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While I generally consider myself old-fashioned, I don't think solids are the best choice for buffalo -- at least not first shot and perhaps not for follow-ups. Too much chance -- a certainty on a broadside -- for a pass through. In usual cover, you may not know for sure what is behind -- or you may know and it's bad -- no shot in either case. Not so with a soft. That said, I love the .416 and that looks like a great solid -- for their proper and intended use -- these days. Thanks for the info. | |||
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If you want to get controlled penetration, North Fork softs are hard to beat. These are hard to beat in a herd situation. They will NOT exit the offside hide of a Cape Buffalo. They do hit the offside hide. Hard to argue with given today's trophy costs. Don_G ...from Texas, by way of Mason, Ohio and Aurora, Colorado! | |||
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 These are some 400 DGS solids from a 416 Rigby recovered from a buf. First one enetered the shoulder and was recovered in the hip. The second one entered 10" below the tail and was recovered in the rumen. Both shots were 40 yrds and were non-vital requiring more gunfire. More penetration apparently isnt a substitute for piss poor shooting...  | |||
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 Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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No, it was just the first shot presented after a 10 minute wait and stand off. The buffalo was hidden for the most part and finally extended his head past a tree and turned it towards me at 70 yards. The wind had been in spurts and was unstable from the left, so finally it was a decision to call that the best and doable shot and to take it. I had a small tree branch stump projection as a rest and the shot felt solid and secure. It just ended up an inch or so lower than intended. I was afraid of going too high, not wanting to go over the brain or eyelevel. So I ended up going under the brain. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Agree with the north forks. 430 grain softs in .416 RM on 2 buffalo perfect performance through shoulder bone, double lung lodged in offside ribcage. You can really hear them smack. Mine was a one shot kill and the other the finisher for the wife who used a .404. The PH's were very impressed with the bullets and the .416. It hit audibly harder than the 404 and had more dramatice results. Gave all my solids to the PH  Those 430 north for flat points looked nasty wish I got to use them lolWhite Mountains Arizona | |||
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There was quite a bit of ink a few years back about the "discovery" that flat nose bullets penetrated better than round nose bullets. It seems that the flat nose created some sort of shock wave that reduces the surface tension and resistance of the tissue, allowing the bullet to penetrate deeper. This advantage now seems to have been neutralized by the discovery that flat nosed bullets do not always feed well in bolt guns. I know of one recent near-disaster on ele that was attributed to a jammed cartridge with a flat nosed solid. For what it's worth, the Barnes .375 300 gr. solids I used 20 years ago were round nosed, the ones I bought 5 years ago were flat nosed, and the ones I bought this year were round nosed. | |||
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All them darn new inventions. That's what Nosler have been doing for 50 years. And seems to be imitated year and year for 50 years.  ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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This is the same old stuff about solids. Solids do no kill as fast as softs. You shoot a buff with solids, and it does not go down, so you have to shoot it again with another solid, and another, and .... Damn, those are tuff. Of course, you could have killed it with one soft. Just another one of those illogical African hunting traditions. ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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