I would like some insight into the 9.3X74R. I am not up to speed on this cartridge; does it have a U.S or U.K. equivalent?

thanks,

Mario

The 9.3X74R is the double rifle equivilent to the 9.3X62 Mauser, or the 35 Whelen. It is just 100 fps slower that the 375H&H flanged, with a 286 gr soft or solid bullet. It is legal in many countries for all the big five, though light for that purpose. It is a very good cartridge for North American hunting, as well as for African plains qame, and the cats, and will do a good job on Cape Buffalo in fairly open African bush,and with good bullets, where legal!

Mario,

Welcome to AR. Check the "Medium Bore" forum for more information on the 9.3s.

It is a popular round in Europe, but far less so here, where the .35 calibers and .375H&H have more proponents.

"Cartridges of the World" and most decent loading manuals have information on this round.

George

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
It is legal in many countries for all the big five, though light for that purpose.

Mac,

For my own edification, in which African countries is it considered legal for elephant, Cape buffalo, and rhino?

George

Zimbabwe for one.

465H&H

Mario
Welcome to AR.
I have a 9,3x74R Chapuis double that I have taken quite a bit of game with, several deer pigs, coyotes, a bobcat, 2 black bears, a beaver, several turkeys, in Africa, kudu, waterbuck, baboon, 11 impala, civet cat, jackel, and klipspringer.
I like the 9,3x74 quite a bit.
Do a search on previous posts.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Zimbabwe for one.

465H&H

Is there any (safe) 9.3x74R load that can generate 5400 joules (3983ft.-lbs.) of energy?

George

Norma Factory Ammo
286 gr Alaskan 2362 fps 3536 ftlbs [4795Joule]

232 Vulcan 2625fps 3543 ftlbs. [4802Joule]

The RWS 293 TUG has 4589Joule.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Norma Factory Ammo
286 gr Alaskan 2362 fps 3536 ftlbs [4795Joule]

232 Vulcan 2625fps 3543 ftlbs. [4802Joule]

The RWS 293 TUG has 4589Joule.

Thanks, Tony, I found loads in that power level in the Vihtavuori Oy manual, but nothing even close to 5400 joules. Do such loads exist, and would they be considered safe in firearms typical chambered in 9.3x74R, making this round legal for elephant, Cape buff, and rhino?

George

George
I would not want to shoot such loads in MY 9,3x74R double.

A lot of buff have been killed with the 9.3x62 and the x74 as you well know. I would not be afraid to hunt buff with my 9,3.
I would prefer my 9,3 double to my 375 Bolt. I think it is way light for elephant, but I carried solids for it just in case it was necessary in an emergency when hunting plains game and my 450 No2 was back in ther Safari Car.
However being legal is just that, being legal, and I would recommend anyone to go by the rules.
I thought the 9,3x62 was listed as legal, but I have not read the rules.

I consider the 450/400 as a sensible minimum for a hunter shooting multiple buff, hippo and elephant.
I consider the 450/400 PERFECTLY suited for such game.

While I am no expert, I have shot 2 buff and 3 elephants, one buff was at 12 yards the other at @40, one elephant at 6 yards, one at 12 yards. THAT AINT NO PLACE FOR LESS THAN 40 CAL, IMHO.

Still If I was a fella or gal doing a plains game, one buff hunt, and the 9,3x74R was legal I would not have a problem using it.

CBNHNTR,
Welcome.

Much of the new interst in this cartridge is due to Ruger soon to be or already producing No.1 in this caliber. It has been around a long time though and mostly used in double rifles. I remember an old article where Elmer Keith necked it down to .338 in a rebarreled No.1.

Its traditional power level is nearly identical to the 9.3x62 Mauser, though I suspect that in the Ruger No.1, the pressures may be run up some. It would make a great medium bore for anything in NA or the largest plains game.

BigBullet

Zim dropped it's muzzel energy requirement for class A game to 5kj in 1997. The 256grn RWS load theoretically makes this level so the 9,3 x62 and 9,3x74 were now "legal". Eugine Yap's son (youngest Hunter in SCI to collect the big five he was 9 at the time) took his elephant and buff here using a 9,3x74. I seem to remember it was writted up in the SCI mag as Eugine won the SCI hunter of the year in 2004. Worked for the kid and no back up shots needed!

Gentlemen, thank you for your responses. The reason I asked is that I have run into a double rifle by an Italian manufacturer in that caliber, at what I consider a fair price. I have a buff/plains game hunt upcoming and was considering this as a back up to my .375 bolt gun.

regards,

I had a very interesting thing happen with a 9.3x74R last season. I was hunting with two Italian clients one of whom carried a 9.3X74R loaded with Barnes solids. I was playing with a 500 Jeffrey using 535 grain Woodleigh solids.

The client with the 9.3x74R wounded a buffalo, hitting it in the leg and off it went. We followed it until dark. Next day we took up the trail and found the buffalo at 10 am.

The client with the 9.3x74R told his friend who had a 458 to finish it off. It was about 80 yards away and didn't know we were there. He fired and missed the whole buffalo and off it went. The chap with the 9.3X74 R fired and I fired. He hit the right ham in the middle and I hit the left ham in the middle. The buffalo ran a bit, bellowed and died.

My 500 Jeffrey had penetrated about four feet and the bullet veered up and ended in the back. It did not get into the diaphragm. It would not have killed the buffalo.

The 9.3x74R solid whistled right through the buffalo and angled through the lungs killing it. It was far more effective than my 500 Jeffrey on a fleeing buffalo. On another buffalo the solid whistled right through. In one shoulder and out the other. It penetrates very well with solids.

The Woodleigh solids have a tendancy to veer I suppose because of their somewhat conical shape. From the side the Brenneke TUG bullet work well on buffalo. I have only seen RWS and Barnes solids and TUG bullets used in the 9.3X74R but they are all suprisingly good on Cape buffalo if well placed.


VBR,


Ted Gorsline



VBR,


Ted Gorsline

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
It is legal in many countries for all the big five, though light for that purpose.

Mac,

For my own edification, in which African countries is it considered legal for elephant, Cape buffalo, and rhino?

George

The “Legal†minimum calibre in Mozambique must be bigger than 6 mm and have a chamber length of more than 40mm!

The 9.3 x74 will work fine with the right bullets and right shot placement

Good Hunting

quote:

Originally posted by freischuetz:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
It is legal in many countries for all the big five, though light for that purpose.

Mac,

For my own edification, in which African countries is it considered legal for elephant, Cape buffalo, and rhino?

George

The “Legal†minimum calibre in Mozambique must be bigger than 6 mm and have a chamber length of more than 40mm!

The 9.3 x74 will work fine with the right bullets and right shot placement

Good Hunting

freischuetz,

Did you misread my question, or are you saying that Mozambique considers a 7mm-08 Remington to be legal to hunt elephant, Cape buffalo, and rhino?

I wasn't asking if the 9.3x74R worked, I was asking where it was considered legal for Cape buffalo and pachyderms.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by freischuetz:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
It is legal in many countries for all the big five, though light for that purpose.

Mac,

For my own edification, in which African countries is it considered legal for elephant, Cape buffalo, and rhino?

George

The “Legal†minimum calibre in Mozambique must be bigger than 6 mm and have a chamber length of more than 40mm!

The 9.3 x74 will work fine with the right bullets and right shot placement

Good Hunting

freischuetz,

Did you misread my question, or are you saying that Mozambique considers a 7mm-08 Remington to be legal to hunt elephant, Cape buffalo, and rhino?

I wasn't asking if the 9.3x74R worked, I was asking where it was considered legal for Cape buffalo and pachyderms.

George

Gorge
No I did not misread your question.

This is the only law referring to calibres for hunting no other references in the law I doubt that you will find an outfitter in Mozambique which will let you hunt buff or ele with a 243 ( 6.17mm) but then maybe you will?

This makes the 9.3x74 plenty legal.

Lots of laws and regulations a written by people which don’t know what they doing not just in Mozambique.

ARTICLE 47
Instruments and methods of hunting

1) While hunting the following instruments may be used

a) Fire arms

b) Bow and arrow and other ''white arms" except for mechanical snares and traps
c) Clubs
d) Hunting dogs
e) Boat, for water birds and crocodile
f) Horse
g) Bait, in the hunting of lion and leopard and in game farms
h) Other weapons classified as hunting weapons in the legislation on the subject

2) The employment of snares, nets, dart and tranquillizer guns is only permitted in the capture of animals destined for investigation, zoos, museums or in cases where approved by the national forestry and wildlife directorate, where visible signs are erected to inform of their presence

3) Except in cases laid out in the law hunting in vehicles or helicopters, the use of lamps,
poisons, explosives, flares, ambush and waiting at water holes is forbidden

4) Lamps may only be used in the hunting of leopard, lion and bush pig and also crocodile
when carried out by boat on rivers, lakes and lagoons
ARTICLE 48
Firearms for use in hunting

1) A hunter is permitted to use the following firearms for hunting
a) Smooth bore shotgun/rifle in the case of small game
b) Rifled bore shotgun/rifle, repeating karabiner with chamber larger than 40mm larger
than 6mm caliber can use sights, either open, front or telescopic
c) Rifles, either pump action, repeating or semi automatic
d) Mixed shotguns with over a 40mm chamber and 6mm caliber
e) Tranquillizer and dart guns for the capture of wild animals in terms of the present
legislation
f) Other fire arms as established by a separate diploma

2) Automatic or semi automatic weapons must be modified so as to permit the introduction of only two rounds

3) The use of weapons for hunting requires a license from the Ministry of the Interior


If this is ethical? No !

quote:

Originally posted by freischuetz:

ARTICLE 47
Instruments and methods of hunting

1) While hunting the following instruments may be used

a) Fire arms

b) Bow and arrow and other ''white arms" except for mechanical snares and traps
c) Clubs
d) Hunting dogs
e) Boat, for water birds and crocodile
f) Horse
g) Bait, in the hunting of lion and leopard and in game farms
h) Other weapons classified as hunting weapons in the legislation on the subject

2) The employment of snares, nets, dart and tranquillizer guns is only permitted in the capture of animals destined for investigation, zoos, museums or in cases where approved by the national forestry and wildlife directorate, where visible signs are erected to inform of their presence

3) Except in cases laid out in the law hunting in vehicles or helicopters, the use of lamps,
poisons, explosives, flares, ambush and waiting at water holes is forbidden

4) Lamps may only be used in the hunting of leopard, lion and bush pig and also crocodile
when carried out by boat on rivers, lakes and lagoons
ARTICLE 48
Firearms for use in hunting

1) A hunter is permitted to use the following firearms for hunting
a) Smooth bore shotgun/rifle in the case of small game
b) Rifled bore shotgun/rifle, repeating karabiner with chamber larger than 40mm larger
than 6mm caliber can use sights, either open, front or telescopic
c) Rifles, either pump action, repeating or semi automatic
d) Mixed shotguns with over a 40mm chamber and 6mm caliber
e) Tranquillizer and dart guns for the capture of wild animals in terms of the present
legislation
f) Other fire arms as established by a separate diploma

2) Automatic or semi automatic weapons must be modified so as to permit the introduction of only two rounds

3) The use of weapons for hunting requires a license from the Ministry of the Interior

Thanks, freischuetz. That is fascinating; do you know if that law is a vestige of Portuguese rule or was it concocted by some Frelimo bureaucrat?

George

Gorge

I just checked again the old colonial Law and I can’t find anything on minimum calibres for hunters only the minimum for PH’s is stipulated, which was 416 and 410 grains bullets!
In the new law there is nothing about Backup guns for PH!!

Its interesting that a lot of the old Mozambican PH’s used guns which where below the minimum legal requirement in the old days. Looking at the arsenals where the guns got “Stored†at independence. Plenty of 9.3x62, 9x57, 10.75x68 followed by 270, 375 some 404, 425WR, 458, 300H&H, 7x57, 458 and then other odd balls.
The Portuguese favoured 410ga shotguns at least there are hundreds in the store rooms???

Cheers

Gorge

Forgot to mention no calibre is legal for Rhino in Mozambique!

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Gorsline:
The 9.3x74R solid whistled right through the buffalo and angled through the lungs killing it. It was far more effective than my 500 Jeffrey on a fleeing buffalo. On another buffalo the solid whistled right through. In one shoulder and out the other. It penetrates very well with solids.

Very interesting.

so far we all talk of the round in a double. when ruger brings out the #1 and the thing can be loaded up to higher pressures - WOW

Ted,
Thanks for the info on the 9,3.
Have you thought about loading 570 grain bullets to 500 Nitro Express ballistics in your 500 Jeffery? Might increase penetration.