As a South African hunting outfitter offering plains game hunts I have to, in these tough economic times, compete for clients with literally thousands of other who also offer plains game hunting. In my heart I know that I do not try to compete with others on trophy price at all. If that was the only criterion, I would have been flooded with clients clamoring to hunt at the low prices offered by myself. For many clients the trophy price, or daily rate, is an important factor in deciding between two or more hunting outfitters. I have often claimed that I offer some of the ‘best value for money spent’ plains game hunting. But how does one judge ‘value for money’ of a hunt?

How must a hunter that is planning to visit southern Africa on a plains game hunt compare hunting outfitter A, or B with hunting outfitter C? The price comparison is very easy: Go to each web site, look up the price and write it down. List the prices in decreasing or increasing order and decide. How? Toss a coin?

There are some very big differences in the trophy fees published on the web sites of hunting outfitters. Let’s use mountain reedbuck as the example – most plains game have very similar statistics. In my web-price database there are 155 prices charged by South African hunting outfitters for mountain reedbuck. The 25% quartile of all the values is $ 400, the 50% quartile is $ 500 and the 75% quartile is $ 700. How should a prospective client now decide with which hunting outfitter he would like to book his mountain reedbuck hunt? If a prospective client decides that the guy offering this species at the 50% quartile cost of $ 500 will give ‘an average hunt’, what is the likely difference between the hunting of a mountain reedbuck at the lower quartile cost of $ 400? What is likely to be sacrificed in enjoyment? Then, on the other hand if the would be client chooses to go hunting one at the higher quartile cost of $ 700, what is he likely to get extra or better than at the 50% quartile cost?

How is the poor prospective client to be guided on how to decide in selecting a hunting outfitter? Should he base his decision on the relative sizes of the mountain reedbuck horns shown in the photo galleries of the respective hunting outfitters’ web pages? Given that 700 divided by 400 is 1.75, one may ask if the horns of the $ 700 specimen be 1.75 times longer that the same species hunted at $ 400? Or should it be based on the enjoyment of the hunt? Or the vintage of the Land Cruiser used to get to the hunting area? How does one measure ‘enjoyment of the hunt’? Once you have decided that, how do you put a monetary value to relative enjoyment of a hunt?

I will attempt to put down a few thoughts of how I evaluate the enjoyment of my own personal hunts. It must be understood that ‘my hunts’ includes those instances when I’m acting as a PH while guiding a client of ‘his’ hunt. By ‘hunt’ I here understand the pursuit of one animal – i.e. what I do on one day, and not the whole hunting trip or safari of vacation; Just one attempt from start to end – either with a dead animal to take photos of, or a true opportunity to kill an animal that for whatever reason was truly turned down, or, the bitter disappointment of realizing that “I was outsmarted or out-lucked….!”

1. The overall honesty of the attempt. If the animal is a ‘put & take’ specimen then the overall honesty is zero and I will not even waste time to pick up a rifle. In fact, if I have done my homework properly I would never even have come close to the venue at which such ‘put & take’ hunting is offered. However if I see a herd of my intended quarry species in the far distance and see no fences that will hinder their escape whatsoever between me & them or beyond, well……. .
2. The time available to complete the hunt. I do not enjoy having to ‘make a quick stalk’ in order to get it all over as soon as possible. I like to see the intended quarry early in the morning, and know that I have until 30 minutes after sunset [end of legal hunting time] to get the job done. If I have to make a quick stalk the decisions about the next step are far to much influenced by attempting to get it over quickly: I would much rather know that each decision made is based only on the answer to the question: “Which option gives the biggest chance of eventual success?” IMHO the tendency of so many hunting outfitters to offer ‘many animals in few day’s hunting’ greatly detracts from the potential enjoyment of the hunting by their clients.
3. The smaller the likelihood of getting what I’m looking for adds to the enjoyment. All the ‘true trophy hunters’ out there will appreciate and understand this. Why set yourself a task of getting a 7” mountain reedbuck, or not shoot, if there is a very great chance of getting one on the first morning of the hunt? I particularly love hunting for impala ‘queens’ – the chance of actually getting one is very low indeed. I still regard a hunt for an impala queen as the biggest challenge of all plains game hunting! It is partly for this reason that I so love hunting with a muzzle-loader: The chance of getting close enough for a shot here in the Free State grassveld is very low indeed, and in this lie the most enjoyed challenge. I find it such a pity that so many hunting outfitters advertise the fact or boast about how easy it is to get a specific trophy when hunting with them!
4. The experience & knowledge of whoever is going with me. Most of all I love hunting alone, but in recent years I seldom get that opportunity. The person most likely to accompany me on a hunt may be a client, or a friend or a guide provided by the landowner to ‘look after me’. I have on a few occasions hunted with a fellow PH, and many times with very experienced hunting friends. I can also say that I’ve hunted with some clients that are very experienced stalkers in their own countries. I find tremendous enjoyment from the realization that every move that I make is critically evaluated and [hopefully] appreciated as ‘correct’, or at least a sensible choice by my hunting companion(s). However if I’m hunting accompanied by a farm laborer who is only interested in making sure that I do not get lost or shoot in a neighbor’s property but takes no further interest in the hunt, it is very depressing to have such a burden around. A special mention needs to be made of how I enjoy the company of anyone willing and eager to learn when I hunt. There is really something special for me to guide and help a youngster or a beginner to get to know the secrets of hunting.

These are a few of my thoughts on how to evaluate the enjoyment of a hunt. How one can place a value on each of these – and more unmentioned aspects – is a bit beyond me. Any suggestions?

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

I want a PH that knows his area(s) we will be hunting in.

I read Robert Ruark in 1957. I was eight years old when I got the fever. I remember that famous quote: "they look at you as if you owe them money." It was a life time dream come true when I went to Africa.

What do I want?

I want a PH that is experienced in the type of hunting I want to hunt.

I want a camp with ambience. Some hunters want the Hilton. I don't, I want to experience some of that Old Africa.

I want representative, mature trophy animals.

I want a fair chase opportunity to take those animals. So, no put & take.

I want a PH who can tell me stories of how it was in the old days when he started out.

I want decent prices, that value at the end of the day, at the end of the hunt. That means a PH who understands what it means to work for wages. A PH who can understand that Africa is a dream for most of us, and make that dream real.

I make, not my wife and I; but I make about $50,000 a year. A safari for plains game is 30% of my gross income a year. A Buff is about 40% or a bit more. It is a lot of money to me.

That's who I am, and what I want in value for hard earned money.

Rich

Inexperienced hunters probably have expectations mostly derived from cinema, exagerated written accounts and their imagination. If they don't already have an open mind, a desire to learn and the openess required for it, then trying to know how to satisfy their imagination cannot be logically deduced.

Experienced hunters are a different matter. They probably know what they want and then it is solely up to the PH to be honest in what he can provide in the dialogue they have before the hunt.

Andy,
I will tell you, what I've told a few outfitters I've dealt with.

Concerning plainsgame hunting in africa, defining it as animals regularly found in RSA or Nam, outiftters are in trouble, because...you are all essentially selling the same product. Sure you have a nice lodge, but most other places have nice lodges, and there's very fine lines between Awesome/and good enough.

Plainsgame hunters are usually 1st-2nd timers, and its about price, and so there's been the price war brewing between RSA and NAM for a couple of years now, and it's getting pretty nuts. When I see what some people are selling hunts for, I sometimes ask myself, how are they doing it?

Now, on the lower end hunts, from what I've seen, most are shooting representatives at best, some are shooting sub-par animals for sure. Which is something I'm totally not cool with. Because unsuspecting people are getting taking advantage of... Some people are not inch hunters, and so just shooting a decent springbok is ok...and so paying an extra 2-300 dollars, (just using an example, lets not get into details) more for the exact animal for maybe an inch doesn't seem logical.

I think some of the Price Per Day Per Person's I've seen for plainsgame in RSA have been ridiculous. I saw one person's was 500pppd...as soon as I saw that, I wasn't interested anymore.

There are very few hunters, where price doesn't matter when hunting plainsgame in Southern Africa is concerned. And considering you've got so many people to compete with, you're in a struggle for the rest of your career, because I personally don't think it's going to get better.

Most people hunt plainsgame until they graduate to big-game, and then they will continue to shoot certain animals over and over. No one brags about killing their 13th red hartebeest. SO plainsgame outfitters will constantly have to rely on generating new clientele who want to come and shoot 10 animals on a trip....and I feel that group of people is diminishing quickly, africa has become quite affordable as per the hunting, but everything else, makes it very expensive. Airfare, taxidermy, ect...

There are still many people who don't know half the animals you hunt, and only serious collectors (and I use that term, because I consider myself one, it has nothing to do how I hunt or where, like some people like to claim, but merely indicates that I want one of each othe species) will return multiple times to certain countries to get a red duiker or a cape grysbok, blah blah blah.

Now, as far as value is concerned, I want to have a good time and take stellar trophies. I'm not one of those guys who wants to just shoot a blesbok, I want a chance at very large trophies, I'm an inch hunter, not for the book, bc I even can't afford to put all my stuff in the book, but because I want the biggest. Honest ph's know there area, and should be able to give you an idea of what could be expected. (Ironically, people always crap on people hunting for inches when it comes to plainsgame, however, with regards to big game, people always say, you should get a 60#er in this area or 44" in massailand..and thats not referred to inch hunting? but that is another post!)

I think your thoughts above about reedbok, and is the high end better by 1.75 better than the cheap end...unless ph's can guarantee certain sizes, I don't know how you could justify it?

I've been on 3 safaris, I think I know a little about african hunting, very little , but I always look at price first, because some people just think their stuff is way more valuable than the actual market price. When I see animals that I want to shoot at 40-70 high than a few other people, it will definitely sway me away from them. For example, I really want to shoot a white springbok, I've been looking around, price ranges from 650-1200...thats a big difference! How am I supposed to figure it out? The only thing I can think of, is "how big of a ram, are you expecting me to get?" if he says 16" white springbok, maybe it's worth 1200...but it he says 10-12" than it certainly is not right!

You know some people hunt with certain PH for name recognition, but I don't think that really applies to plainsgame, so I think you will have to sell it on the quality of the animals and that means SIZE=inches.

Andy I don't know if I answered your question, but I tried to give you insight to how a client might perceive it.

There is a reason Zambia is my favorite place to hunt, and that is because it looks like anything but a 5 star hotel, with the look of a national park to hunt in! Zambia is OLD AFRICA, with all it's dust bugs, and night sounds the sing me to sleep. I understand the fencing of hunting properties in RSA, but I don't want to hunt in a 40 acre pin. If I wanted that I would simply hunt in Texas' YO ranch. I’m not a tape measure hunter, all I want is mature representative animals taken fair chase!

I want to be as far away from traffic and tourist traps as I can get. I like thatch, or tent camps preferably on a pan or river that attracts animals to the water around camp. I don't need black tie dinner tables, or alcohol. Some strong coffee will do it for me. Plain old good food, and clean drinking water, and a hunting vehicle that is at least reliable. I'm in my 74th year, and the last thing I need is a PH who wants to show me how fast he can walk. The one luxury I like is not having to use a long drop! in-suite showers, and camodes are a real plus, but I'm an old cowboy, and can make do with what ever is there.

As long as the area carries the animals I want the rest is up to the PH, tracker and myself to find them. At that point it is clearly up to me to make the shot, and I want no guarantees that everything I book for will be taken, if that exists, then IMO it is not HUNTING! Finally, I want all my surprises furnished by nature, not finding at that last minute that there are a bunch of hidden charges, that nobody declared before the safari was booked! As ISS said, any safari is a lot of money to me and must be planed for in advance!

Well, Mr. McClaren, you've certainly started me thinking. How do I determine "value for money"?
1. An honest relationship with my PH. I fully realize I'm only in his company for 7-21 days, but first, I would like my PH to think that I've brought something to the party. I don't want him wondering about my skill or my dedication to the stalk. On the other hand, he should know, and I will make him aware of, my limitations - up front - and take them into consideration. I will not be a prima dona nor a whiner. On the first day of a 1996 buffalo hunt in the Selous, my 24 yr old PH 'tested' me - pace, dedication, determination, safety. He told me as much as we were getting ready to head back to camp after I had gotten a shot and missed in underbrush so thick it was hard to pick out the buff. His only words were "You did well. We'll do better tomorrow". We're still friends today. I ended up shooting 2 really good ol' dugga boys.

2. Camp atmosphere - is it organized? Does it have "ambiance"? I like the more rustic-type tented camps. I've stayed in "deluxe" tented camps, but I like the more "manly" ones. Decent food....and coffee. Americans gotta have coffee. And is the staff friendly? I really don't want an extremely formal camp setting where the staff and client aren't allowed to mingle.

3. Did I get an honest "chance" at what I came for? In 1996, we chased Nyassa Wildebeest all over the Selous before getting one shot on one bull the very last day of the hunt. In June of 2009 I chased this big blue eland bull for 5 days when he jumped out of the brush 25 feet in front of me while I was holding my gun in one hand and the gun of my PH in the other, never to be seen in range again. Now those were both fun!

4. Is the hunt about me? I hope this will come across like I intend, but I expect to be the top priority when in the company of the PH or, at least, the assistant or apprentice PH. I know at times other things need attending to - camp staff, supplies, truck, etc. but the hunter has to be first priority, safety not included. I don't mind accompanying someone on the most seemingly mundane chores as long as I'm not feeling ignored or being considered some kind of a burden. I'd like to be considered as "part of the camp" for the small time that I'm there. As has been mentioned, despite what some or most Africans think, most of us have had to work long and hard and make sacrifices to afford a safari every 2-4 years. A single safari represents a sum of money most of us could live on for one year in retirement.

Wow,

Excellent question, responses and thread. Before I read these descriptions, my gut responded:
"The look of wonder, realization of a lifelong dream and fulfillment on my dad's face".

All that you guys have written is certainly true and speaks to my valueas as well. BUT I remember well the very first time at the age of 5 my dad and I stood in an apple tree on a small wooden platform. With him bowhunting; my very first time in the woodes, the sun setting and the arrival of a pure white whitetail. We watched her -he could have taken her but he put his arm around my shoulder and whispered in my ear instead "Isn't she beautiful?" We watched her and the sunset in awe of the splendor and beauty of life and the world. My introduction to the world of hunting.

Many whietails and an elk later we were in Zimbabwe - watching te spendor and beauty of a sunset over game we had never imagined we would ever see save on television. Looking over the dry river bed far below my dad put his arm around my shoulder and whispered "Isn't it beautiful?" Our PH Wayne watched in silence - knowing it was true and feeling our awe. He raised a glass, took a sip and slipped quietly away allowing my dad and lifelong hunting partner to share those closing moments of our first safari the way a young dad and his 5 year old son should - more than 40 years after the first time they had.

THAT is value for my money. I hope someday to be able to live moments such as those with my children. As far as all of the other stuff - ""Yeah, me too, I agree"

I always enjoy your post. I am sure I would enjoy hunting with you if I ever get another chance to hunt Africa. I am a retired military pilot on a pension and I have built custom homes for the past 16 years. Usually one or two a year. This has paid for my hunts. The US is in a recession and I am not currently building and homes. Currently, I can only dream of African hunts. I have been on 4 plains game hunts. Two in the Limpopo area of SA. One hunt in Namibia and one near Kimberley along the Vaal river.

What do I look for when I go on a safari? Well overall price is near the top of my list. Can I afford this hunt? Do they have animals that I want to hunt. How does the price of the animals I want to hunt compair to other operators. I shot a huge Kudu on my first Safari and I was with a group of hunters that went over together. One was my Taxidermist and he said I may never see a larger Kudu. On the next 3 Safaris; Kudus have not been on my list so I do not care what Kudu cost.I wounded a Black Wildbeeast on this hunt and later I had an easy shot at another one that later measured #7 in the world but I turned it down because I could not pay for it. I will say I have noticed that some Outfitters have started adding a surcharge for large Kudu and that I feel is wrong. I have seen prices for Giraffe from $1200 to $3500. If a Giraffe was one of the animals I really wanted to hunt that would narrow down my choices of Outfitters for that trip.

I think you must discuss what your expectations are. What your physical limatations are and what you expect in living arrangements.
I have seen prices listed for the day rate that varied by 100% Of course hotel rates vary more than that in any city so what are you going to get for the extra money and do you want it? If my wife was along I am sure I would want it.

What has made some hunts or stalks better than others for me. Your first hunt is always special. I love to hunt Zebras. On my second safari we were lying face down in the dirt and poop waiting for the Zebra to expose himself for the shot while a herd of Eland are walking by at thirty feet is pretty exciting. Finding a mad mature waterbuck in the swimming pool and watching the vet dart him then I get in the back of the truck with the Waterbuck while we go about 100KPH down a dirt road at night to relocate him. Spending a day in Kimberley and going to the museum. Flying as copilot from Gobobus, Namibia to the Gras Namibia ranch where I shot a nice Springbok and a Jackel before lunch. When I got the Jackel the owner of the ranch told me my Springbok was free. The day before I told my PH I could navigate the flight without any nav aids so that night he brought me maps and coordinates and that what I did. It is not always about the hunt it can be many things to many people. I enjoy time around the campfire when there are several other hunters to swap stories with. Everyone deserves fair treatment and honesty. Before Hawkeye 47 went on his last safari he told me he had a bad feeling he was going to get screwed and he did. That is another report on the AR.

I was on a cull hunt near Kimberely on the Vaal river when we spotted a Mountain Reed Buck. Now we were allowed to hunt trophy animals for the normal trophy fee which was $400 for the Mountain Reed Buck. Of course I did not know what one looked like but I knew how much it would cost to shoot one. A whole lot less that the Common Reed Buck that was standing outside my room most every morning. A 376 Steyr is enough gun for a Mountain Reed Buck and this one is way over 7inches. My PH said if I did not shoot him he was going to shoot his as they only see one that nice about every 8 to 10 years.

I guess my theme song should be Ramble ON.

One more thing. I want you to figure out how to make me feel like I had the hunt of a lifetime. That is not about the trophies but the experience of hunting them down and killing them myself cleanly.

Rich

When I go on a hunt, especially a "spendy" hunt, I like to experience the following.

I want to have FUN. I want the PH/Guide, and other camp staff to enjoy "MY" hunt, and have fun as well. I want everybody to be "happy".

I want there to be good reliable equiment, and good food.

I want some "adventure". I want to hunt fair chase. I want to obey all laws.

I want to be in a good area, and have a good chance of seeing game.

Even if the weather is effecting the hunt, I still want everybody to be "happy" and having a good time ie "FUN".

Like most of us I would like to bag a good trophy. It does not have to be THE World Record, but I do not want to shoot a "DINK"...

Some of the BEST HUNTS I have had, I never fired a shot.... But I did have a LOT OF FUN, and it was an ADVENTURE.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
When I go on a hunt, especially a "spendy" hunt, I like to experience the following.

I want to have FUN. I want the PH/Guide, and other camp staff to enjoy "MY" hunt, and have fun as well. I want everybody to be "happy".

I want there to be good reliable equiment, and good food.

I want some "adventure". I want to hunt fair chase. I want to obey all laws.

I want to be in a good area, and have a good chance of seeing game.

Even if the weather is effecting the hunt, I still want everybody to be "happy" and having a good time ie "FUN".

Like most of us I would like to bag a good trophy. It does not have to be THE World Record, but I do not want to shoot a "DINK"...

Some of the BEST HUNTS I have had, I never fired a shot.... But I did have a LOT OF FUN, and it was an ADVENTURE.

For anyone who has never hunted with Tony (NE 450 No2) you'd have to work hard to cause him have a bad hunt! Tony makes lemonade out of lemons, so weather, or what come may, I've never seen him unhappy in a hunting camp! In five minutes he will have the whole camp luaghing at some of his police tales, or hunting misshaps.

Africa’s expensive, its eats into one holidays and most of us have families we need to allocate time to. The airfare is expensive, the hunting, it’s the combination of the daily rate and the trophy fee that needs evaluating. 100% guaranteed success isn’t value, but nor is days and days hunting without seeing an animal.
Having hunted with Andrew, my desktop image is now

Is it a trophy, yes a memory of a wonderful hunt, Africa’s an adventure, hunting there a dream. Who to hunt with, a cheap daily will seem awfully expensive after days and days getting blisters following an idiot. An expensive hunt might then seem value. Truthfully, I hadn’t planned to hunt mountain reedbuck, Andrew advised me to as the hunting area is superb. Good memories are priceless.

I agree with most of the comments above. I have been on 8 safaris now and one of the very most important things to me is that a Professional Hunter not take me and any repeat bookings for granted and slack off on the hunt, the service or experience, or charge trophy fees that are out of line with normal trophy fee prices. I have had that happen with some Professional Hunters after repeated bookings. Their thinking seems to be that I am a potential lifetime client of theirs and I will continue to book with them, no matter what type of service they provide me. Suffice it to say, I will never book a hunt with them again. I want to be treated, on each and every safari, as if I am the only client that the professional hunter has ever had, and I want to have them work as hard as they can to get me on to trophies that I came to hunt. Then, the rest has to be up to me. I am not a demanding client. I hunt very hard when I am on safari, from before daybreak to after dark, because I want to not only enjoy the limited time that I have to spend in Africa and the experience, but the money that I am spending is usually not an insignificant amount, and is hard earned. Just my opinion for all of you Professional Hunters.

I forgot to ask in MY Ramble ON piece; What is an Impala Queen?

USEENOUGHGUN,
I think you raise a very good point...

Free range
No fence
Established outfitter
Personable and compitent PH of similar physical ability and like hunting mind who knows the hunting area well
A compitent, friendly, and helpful camp staff
A tented camp with ambiance, but not abject luxury
Reasonable oportunity of success on target animal/animals without a garantee of success (it's hunting)
An environment/habitat that allows for my kind of hunting (if I take a double I want to get close)
Historical interest if possible on top of everything else

Brett

quote:

How do you evaluate the "Value for Money" spent on a hunt?

I honestly don't think you can determine the answer to the question completely until you've done the hunt and everyone's perception of value is different. I just had a client return from his first buffalo hunt. He hunted in Zambia on the Luangwa and had a great safari with a 42" buffalo etc. He paid probably $5,000 more in total than a comparable hunt in Zim but I doubt you'd be able to convince him he didn't get good value for his money. Both he and his wife enjoyed every minute of the safari and all went smoothly. They had no unrealistic expectations nor any pressing agenda. In general they had the right attiude to have a great safari and they did. Safari and the success ofthe safari is so much more than the bag at hunt's end.

As to picking a plainsgame hunt out of the incredible array of hunts offered I think that money should not be your first consideration. A cheap safari or one far below the norm probably doesn't offer something that more expensive safaris do. I kind of think good RSA safaris these days are going to be offered at about $400 per day. I think you can avoid a lot of the possible problems by not buy cheap.

Mark

If I may digress for a moment:

There was a used car dealer thirty years back who advertised on TV in the Boise area. He used to stand there and say "you'll always get the car you pay for, or a wee bit less."

I have only hunted Africa twice, but both times I was made to feel like their most important client ever.

When you are talking to the PH on the way to the airport, and you are discussing a return trip the next year; that's a pretty good indicator.

Rich
DRSS

When the final invoice arrives and I pay it without a moment's hesitation and without the slightest regret, it means that I've completed a very good hunt and that I've gotten a good value for my money, regardless of the amount.

Andrew, I have thought a lot about your questions, took a quick look at your website and if I may share my opinion. I am the first time hunter than Oryhunter 1983 refers to and I agree with what he says. I have a spreadsheet (messy) with a number of PH's for plains games. I can also tell you who I want to hunt with for other creatures as money permits.

When I look at Safari providers web sites the easiest way to tell them apart is cost. The business question is how do you/ Safari providers differentiate yourself in a market that may almost be a commodity?

The question is who is your market? Is the first time African hunter looking for a slew of representative animals? Is it the person who wants a trophy or a specific animal(s). Is it an European or American? A hunter who likes luxury or one who just wishes to be comfortable with good meals and a place to sleep?

For example one may talk about: "Excellent value for money" but where is the supporting evidence - doesn't everyone say similar things.

We are talking about "value' and in sales there is what is called a "Value Statement." In a simple value statement could be something like: Based upon our X years of knowledge and experience in catering to Safari hunters we have the ability to run an organized successful safari resulting in you having an opportunity to stalk the animals you desire in a free range environment and enjoying the best that Africa has to offer with 100% satisfaction.

(this is rough) but I don't see anyone making a solid claim with premises or facts backing them up. Many web sites are the same so how are you different?

Likewise have you done a survey of your clients or potential clients on who is your client and what do they want? What percent of your clients are repeat? What is the industry average? What percent of your clients would recommend your outfit?

Numbers Sell

If you are after the American market having your prices listed in Rand makes it inconvenient. I know why you do it and if that is what you want why not list the price in Rand but have an automatic conversion listed right next to it in US dollars?


The Gods willing I will be in Africa in the next year or two and I knew who I will hunt with - already checked references. Cost is a major issue but so is convenience. Will they meet me at the airport, how many flight do I have to take (that is why I choose Limpopo over the Cape), references and feel for the company.

In terms of cost there is no reason for me or know one has articulated why I would have to pay 400 per day plus trophy fees. There are a number of specials. Saying that many of the "Specials" I see from my opinion are crap. Attention getting specials cover the majority if not all the animals I want. Research or experience should say what every first time hunter wants in terms of animals.

Unfortunately for the Safari operator who makes this all happen you may only be a small portion of the total cost for the customer to include dip & Pack, shipping, airfare, taxidermy...

Yes, the intangibles are important that others have alluded to including the "African hunting experience" but I am one person that will be bringing back representative animals or I will be disappointed unless some thing amazing happens.

Andrew, that is my opinion take it for what it is worth.

quote:

Originally posted by army aviator:
I forgot to ask in MY Ramble ON piece; What is an Impala Queen?

May I firstly thank every poster for the positive manner in which you all responded. I will soon attempt making a summary of all the good points made.

Impala "QUEEN"?

A female impala with no horns and normal looking female genetalia but with the following differences from most other mature females:
1. A bit bigger in body than the typical female.
2. Fat, sometimes to the point of being obese, at times when most lactating females are in rather poor condition.
3. Post mortem examination of the uterus show absolutely not a single lesion where a foetus was implanted in the past. In other words it is proven that she never fell pregnant.

The difficulty in hunting one is a result of:
1. The scarcity of such females: There are simply very few in nature. You have to look at maybe 1000 to 5000 [I honestly do not know] impala females before hoping to see a true queen.
2. She is a female and stays with the herd. Now it is difficult to get a shot at the herd ram: All those female eyes in addition to his own watching! But once you are close enough for a shot, it is comparitively easy to spot the herd ram - he is the big guy with horns! The Queen has to be very carefully looked for, just a bit bigger, a bit fatter and then you can only be sure that it was indeed a queen by post mortem disection and inspection of the uterus.

Why I like hunting them? It is so much more darned difficult than simply getting up to a territorial ram, or a ram from the bachelor kerd or even the herd ram! Besides, if you pay "per female" as is very typical for meat hunters, at the typical female price a carcass is usually very good meat for money spent on 'trophy' fees. Lastly the fatter meat is just lovely to eat!

I suspect that there are such "queens" amongst other species also, but I personally have hunting experience only with impala queens.

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
There is a reason Zambia is my favorite place to hunt, and that is because it looks like anything but a 5 star hotel, with the look of a national park to hunt in! Zambia is OLD AFRICA, with all it's dust bugs, and night sounds the sing me to sleep. I understand the fencing of hunting properties in RSA, but I don't want to hunt in a 40 acre pin. If I wanted that I would simply hunt in Texas' YO ranch. I’m not a tape measure hunter, all I want is mature representative animals taken fair chase!

I want to be as far away from traffic and tourist traps as I can get. I like thatch, or tent camps preferably on a pan or river that attracts animals to the water around camp. I don't need black tie dinner tables, or alcohol. Some strong coffee will do it for me. Plain old good food, and clean drinking water, and a hunting vehicle that is at least reliable. I'm in my 74th year, and the last thing I need is a PH who wants to show me how fast he can walk. The one luxury I like is not having to use a long drop! in-suite showers, and camodes are a real plus, but I'm an old cowboy, and can make do with what ever is there.

As long as the area carries the animals I want the rest is up to the PH, tracker and myself to find them. At that point it is clearly up to me to make the shot, and I want no guarantees that everything I book for will be taken, if that exists, then IMO it is not HUNTING! Finally, I want all my surprises furnished by nature, not finding at that last minute that there are a bunch of hidden charges, that nobody declared before the safari was booked! As ISS said, any safari is a lot of money to me and must be planed for in advance!

Well said Mac. Not only do we offer the traditional experience but a simple plains game safari takes you into the very heart of big game country and offers you the experiences and adventure of a classic safari.

Andrew,
After reading a few more post, I also thought of something that is always something that scares me!

Now I looked at your website, and I don't wish to be critical of you or your operation, so take this as an observation, there are others African Ph's that do the same thing, and my thoughts apply to them as well.

I really do not like hunting where there is a pro-rated cost for trophies. That is one reason I haven't jumped off in New Zealand, I don't want to be hunting, and have some critter walk out in front of me and question the limit on my credit card. To me thats not fun at all...

Now that being said, it has become more common to see pro-rated trophy prices on kudu's, which seems to be the industry norm if it's abnormally large, 55-60", but your entire price sheet is pro-rated from culls, representatives, and trophies...

I fully understand the cull price.....but splitting representative and trophies is huge red flag for me, because, I've always enjoyed hunting and looking for the best we can find. Some of the trophies I've gotten have been nice, and a few spectacular...and should that extra luck be taxed higher? Do you advise before every shot, whether the animal is a representative or trophy??? and let the hunter decide?

I can tell you one thing, I've never shot an animal that I thought wasn't a trophy on an african safari and had an outfitter say, oh well he's just a representative, so he's not going to cost you as much. Thats never happened, which is one reason why I would encourage everyone to look at the record books to get an idea of what a trophy should be.

I second what singleshot says, I'm damn good with mental math, but looking at your page in RAND gave me a serious headache.

Given all the threads lately about being screwed over by outfitters, I would say one factor to "value for money" would be an honest safari company. If the daily rates were $X when you flew in, they should be $X when you fly out. Not abusing their ability to claim "this is Africa" when dip and pack comes out to $2,300 for one warthog. I, and I bet all on AR, want a fair, honest, and trustworthy PH and safari company. Nothing ruins a hunt (or anything for that matter) faster than disputes over money.