I have been thinking and reading about this matter some more. Now I am ready for more input, ready If you are..
Summing up: I will be hunting Plainsgame and Buffalo, I allready own a 9,3 cal, so I do not want another in that range if I can avoid it (= no .375), also the gun make I would like to buy only makes their gun on standard actions. This is why I am cheking and making inquiries about 416 Taylor.
Mr Atkinson stated somewhere at AR that he could feel no difference in recoil between a 375H&H a 3006 or a 416. I do not feel a difference between .375, 9,3X74R and 3006 myself, especially not when firing it while hunting. But I have never fired a 416 or anything larger for that matter, so ...I would like to know what/how a 416 should be stocked. I know the old and time proven way is a straight stock, but...?
Also who makes the brass other than A-Square, if any.
I know that I can make brass from 458WM, but I am wondering if customs in Zim. or any other african country will make a fuzz about the difference in stamps on the rifle and the brass.
Thanks in advance

Hello Niels,

I have to say that I don't know of anyone by A-Square who makes headstamped 416 Taylor. Maybe someone else can help out in that department.

As far as recoil goes, I can tell the difference between the 30-06, 375 and 416, but I shoot them all well, and when there is game in front of my sights, I don't really notice the recoil from a 450 Rigby. The 416 Taylor kicks a little more than the 375, but not enough to worry about. In my experience with big bores as a gunsmith, I have found that stock fit is the most important thing. With a good fitting stock, a good pad, and in some cases, a murcury recoil reducer, I think about any of the big guns can be made to be "OK" for most shooters. I have made a lot of 338s 375s and a few 404s for women, and all but 2 have never has a problem with them. Of those two, one had me retrofit a "dead Mule" to her 375, and then she was fine too.

The 416 is a really good shell. I like it for the same reasons you do. It can be used on about any action, and I really like to put it on the Standard length Mausers.

Good hunting

SZ

I have not found it a problem to make a .375 H&H, 416 Rem, 404 Jefferys, or as I was corrected just recentlyu a 500 Jefferys on a std. length action and it works fine if properly opened up in back....

I have a problem with hunting Africa and foriegn countries with an improperly marked wildcat that the brass does not match the caliber on the gun....and as far as sticking heavy recoil reducing agents in the buttstock, that about ruins any rifle for balance, not to mention the added pound or two that goes with it IMO...

I have gone the Taylor route and it sure didn't show me a heck of a lot and after the 416 Rem showed up I dumped it, but I always liked the 404 Jefferys better than either the 416 Rem., Rigby or Taylor, but I admit I have shot more Buffalo with the 416 Rem than any other DGR I own, with the 404 a close second....

The 375 and 416 Taylor are all excellent cartridges and I sure do like them, but its foolish to own any wildcat, that can be duplicated or bettered by a factory round..whats the point, and especially for the world travelor...

Niels,

If you hunt Africa with this great wildcat, you better have the proper headstamp. Quality Cartridge makes it, good stuff, which I have found identical in load interchangeability with Remington .458 WinMag brass necked down.



QualCart 416 Taylor brass is $33.97/20 pieces, USD, 2004 price:



http://www.owlnet.com/quality/416%20Taylor.htm



They also make other properly headstamped brass of interest, some proprietary stuff as well as the wildcats, such as:



358 Shooting Times Alaskan

375 Weatherby

375 RUM

470 Capstick

470 Mbogo



The above are current production, and some others are "coming soon" such as:



495 A-Square

500 A-Square

550 Magnum

577 Tyrannosaur



You can find other interesting offerings by clicking on "Wildcat Brass!!!" at the Quality Cartridge home page:



http://www.owlnet.com/quality/index.html

.375H&H, .416REM and 404 on a standard size action.... How exactly, is that possible?
The more I learn about the 416 Taylor the more interesting it gets, BUT there ARE obvious disadvantages, to it, compared to standardized cartridges like the above mentioned.
So this is very intersting: How to fit a long cartridge to a standard size action. Please let me know.

Hello Niels,

The way You do it with the 375 H&H is to open the magazine in both front and rear. (Some smiths do all the opening in the front, but I like to leave more of the bottom lug abutment in place) Then you open up the feed rails and the bolt face. It takes Me about 2 hours to do.
Now on the bigger shells (416 Rigby, 404 Jeffery ) you have to change "bottom Metal" to an aftermarket magazine like the "New England Arms" of something similar. You must open up the mag well in the action to the rear as mush as possible. This will still result in cutting away a lot ot the bottom lug abuttment. You must use the wider mag to make room for the shoulders or the cartridges. Next You lap the bolt lugs/locking abutments back until the 3rd (safty) lug sets in, and this makes the lockup much stronger.
If You look at an M-98 bolt when it is closed, you'll see that the top (left) lug is split for the extractor. It is the one that goes into the strongest abutment. So the strongest abutment of the receiver has the weakest lug. If you look at the bottom lug (right lug) on the Mauser you'll see it's solid, but it locks into the weakest locking abutment. If you look at the rear 3rd lug You'll see that it is soild and locks into an abutment as strong or stronger that either of the front two.
Rigby used to modify it's 416s this way in the old days, especally during the WW1 years, and after, until about 1921. The Famous hunter John Sleby, who "kept the 416 Rigby alive" used one of this modifaction. His is NOT a magnum Mauser, but a standard length Mauser. I can send you a picture of it if You'd like.
The Old English gunsmiths said that a Mauser in which the 3rd lug was engaged, was twice as strong as it was with only 2 lugs engauged. I believe this. It takes a LOT of work, but I have done several of them and they work just fine.
We must also keep in mind that the big old British shells worked on a large case/low pressure. The pressure of the 404 and the 416 Rigby were much lower than the modern American shells, which fire the same bullets. The Original 404 ran the same pressure as the 303 British. (And a Mauser is MUCH stronger than a MK-1 Enfield.)
When You do the modification on the Mausers with the 404 or the 416, You need to have a "drop Mag." and of course that means a larger rifle in the mag area. (handmade stock)
Just some notes of interest:
The 416 Taylors I have made are usually made on standard length Mausers, with 3 shot mags. It dose not necessitate using expensive arter market "bottom metal" and in some cases I have used semi-inlet (standard) stocks, although I usualy make all my stocks by hand. These options are up to the customer, and the customer's buget.
As far as ballance goes, I am sitting 3 feet away from one I am making right now. It has a 23 inch barrel, standard mag. Island rear sight base and a 13 5/8" L.O.P. I can ballance it on one finger in the middle of the floor plate, and it Has a murcury recoil reducer in the stock.
Lastly, one of our friends expressed that the 416 Remington was more impressive in the field. That maybe, but I can assure you that this has nothing to do with the cartridges in question. Here are the facts.
416 Remington. Handloaded by Me
400 gr. Hornady soft point
2420 F.P.S. chronographed

416 Taylor Handloaded by Me
400 gr. Hornady soft point
2365 F.P.S. chronographed

416 Rigby Federal Factory Ammo
400 grain solid
2361 F.P.S. chronographed

OLD 416 Kynoch
400 gr bullet
2290 F.P.S. or zero F.P.S. chronographed (some did notfire)

If Our friend was more impressed with the Remington I believe that it was probably because of some other factor. Bullet placement or preformance probably.

In fairness to him, (and everyone else,) I must state that I have never seen any African animal killed with any 416. In fact, the only 416 kill I have ever seen in my life was a medimum sized bull Elk in Oregon. It was with a 416 Taylor, and it went down as You'd expect) I have had a lot of experience with the 404 though. ( RWS .423" 400 gr. at 2300) and it kills very well.) As with most things in life...
95% is the man
5% is what he uses.

Hello Buchsenschmeid
Is it possible to alter/lengthen ANY standard action, or is it only the mauser type action you are mentioning in your reply?
And.... Thank you, and all others, very much for your answers.

Hello again Niels,

I can't give You an answer to that question, because the word "any" may mean....well....ANY. I can open up a Winchester and a Ruger to some extent, but they are both "long enough" for most shells anyway. I have never been asked to "open up" a Remington. Springfield 03 actions can be "opened up", but the 3dt lug on a Springfield dose not lock into as much "meat" as the 3rd lug on a Mauser.

I could go on and on. Why don't You e-mail me and we'll get a little more specific.

I hope the description on lengthening the Mauser was clear enough in the earlier post. (I can send You some pictures of Harry Selby's 416 Rigby, made by Rigby on a standard Mauser. )

Hi again everyone on this thread..
Unfortunately I am forced to give up on the .416 Taylor.
Brass is impossible to get here in Denmark. The only place I have found it is in the states and since 9-11 it has been close to impossible to get any reloading components and gunparts sent to an adress outside the US.

Besides.... The reason I wanted 416 Taylor in the f�rst place was because it fits a standard action and a particular standard action I like, BUT i have now learned that a push feed action is no good when hunting dangerous game. DG calls for a controlled feed action like Mauser's Magnum, Ruger 77's or pre 64 winch. Right...

Niels, the .416 Taylor can easily be made from .458 Win Mag, .358 Norma mag, .338 Win Mag brass. Do you reload?

As for the CRF and push feed question.....well...weatherby don't have CRF, Sako don't have CRF....and many new Winchesters do in fact have CRF...not just pre-64's.

CRF VS push feed can be a hot topic here but both sides have their opinions.....I wouldn't trade off my Sako because it's a push feed!!!!

Yes I Reload and yes I could make 416Taylor Brass from any of the calibers you mention. BUT I do have to bring correctly stamped brass to africa and that is close to impossible to get here. Or at least very expensive plus it takes forever to get it. so... for the taylor.
I think I'll just buy a CZ in .416Rigby and customize it. That can be done for around 2000$ incl. buying the original CZ rifle. I am also keen on the RUGER 77 though. But a little insecure wheter the shorter barrel will produce more recoil than the longer CZ barrel. I am not chicken concerning recoil, BUT I do not need it for anything either.

Buchsenchmeid:






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Hansel