OK, I've been following the posts on this forum for about a year. It amazes me how many posts have to do with the performance of a specific cartridge on specific game. Yet it seems to me that most people miss the point. A lot of the arguements seem to be to the effect of "the 243 winchester (with a 100gr bullet@2900 fps) won't kill a deer but the 6mm Rem (with the same bullet at 3000 fps) knocks 'em flat" type of mentality.

The same caliber/construction bullet at the same velocity kills the same no matter what gun it comes out of. I would be interested in hearing from some of the members with in the field experience (Saeed, Ganyana et al.), what they feel the minimums for each caliber/bullet weight/construction/velocity are the minimum SUGGESTED for NORMAL hunting conditions for the different African animals. Not what is possible, but what is prudent. I know this will never bury the 45-70, arrow, handgun, 9000-Vaporizer debate, but it would be helpful to sort through some of the BS.

Pete

"Sort through the BS"? Good luck!

Here's my quick take:

Small Plains Game (Impala, Blesbok etc.): .257 cal (25-06, 257 Roberts, weatherby etc...)and up

Medium Plains Game (Not including Eland): .270 cal. (270 win., 270 Wea. etc...) and up

Large Plains Game (Eland): 30 cal. (30-06, 300 win. mag. etc...) and up

Leopard: if legal, .30 cal.(30-06, 300 win. mag. etc...) and up

Lion: if legal, .338 cal. (338 win. mag., 340 wea etc...)and up

Buffalo: .375 H&H and up

Hippo: water: .30 cal and up; land: .375 H&H and up

Giraffe: if legal, .338 cal. (338 win. mag., 340 wea etc...)and up

Elephant:Rhino: .375 H&H and up

Rhino: .375 H&H and up

Once and for all...Irregardless of what people may tell you, these are all safe minimums. Use only premium softs or solids in heavy for caliber weights. Solids only necessary for follow-up shots or when shooting the largest dangerous game or Hippo on land. Shot placement is key. Stay away from Ballistic tips

Ok, end of thread.

Final answer.

Nobody will disagree with me

Take your 30.06 or .300 and your .375, .416, or .458, take some quality ammo, then get in shape, study shot placement and become deadly accurate with your chosen rifles from all manner of field shooting positions. Then go knock them down like bowling pins.

That's all you have to do.

Or you can spend countless hours discussing fps, sectional density, etc.

I don't hand load, don't chrono anything, don't read all the posts on the newest whiz-bang whatever.

Probably better to spend more time practicing and less time theorizing. The rifle does not make the rifleman.

Regards,

Terry

For what its worth, and that ain't much:

Small plains game: 243 with min. 85gr pref 100gr

Medium plains game: 264 (Swede) with 140gr

Medium large game: 7mm mag 160gr

Large non-dangerous: 338Win Mag 250gr

Leopard: 264 Swede 140grain

Lion: 9.3x62 250gr or 286gr

Buffalo: 9.3x62 286gr

Rhino/hippo: 9.3x62 286gr

Elephant: 375HH 300gr

All bullets premium bullets at "medium" velocities (2500-2800fps). Kudude

uh-ho...here we go...

I will agree that the .264 cal. is worthy of Medium Plains Game.

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
Take your 30.06 or .300 and your .375, .416, or .458, take some quality ammo, then get in shape, study shot placement and become deadly accurate with your chosen rifles from all manner of field shooting positions. Then go knock them down like bowling pins.

That's all you have to do.

Very well put.

I like TC's list too.

quote:

Take your 30.06 or .300 and your .375, .416, or .458, take some quality ammo, then get in shape, study shot placement and become deadly accurate with your chosen rifles from all manner of field shooting positions. Then go knock them down like bowling pins.

That's all you have to do.

Or you can spend countless hours discussing fps, sectional density, etc.

I don't hand load, don't chrono anything, don't read all the posts on the newest whiz-bang whatever.

Probably better to spend more time practicing and less time theorizing. The rifle does not make the rifleman.

Good advice but too boring by half.

I lack imagination, so I like Terry's advice as well .....

But according to some people the boring old standards just aren't properly up to the job, and never were. Instead, you need some obscure, obsolecent factory cartridge (preferrably British) or some Ackley Improved version. For some reason, those kill better, and they're far more accurate as well. No one can quite lay their finger on the reason why, but according to certain testinomy, it's true. And the weirder or more British the cartridge is, the better in kills..........

AD

People like John Taylor and Craig Boddington have written books on the subject so I don't suppose you are hoping for a one paragraph answer. My answer is read all of the books (be sure to add onto your list "The Perfect Shot") and then go hunt yourself. You too will be able to answer these questions in very little time.

...................

I say shoot what ever you want, as long as it is legal! It's your money, and your butt, and as long as the PHs are willing to risk their butts to hunt any animal with your choice, "DO YO THANG!"

..............BYE!

I totally disagree with all of the above!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
...................

I say shoot what ever you want, as long as it is legal! It's your money, and your butt, and as long as the PHs are willing to risk their butts to hunt any animal with your choice, "DO YO THANG!"

..............BYE!

MAC you seem to contradict yourself with past posts.....


I agree with this post you've made. Take whatever you can shoot well and you enjoy using to hunt with. On legality? I believe that most hunters tend to be law abiding citizens so to me that aspect is a given.

All of the above opinions are on the mark. I would add the caveat that you must also pick a bullet that is suitably constructed and the proper weight for the game you intend to hunt and that may be a more important decision then the caliber you chose.

465H&H

I have shot a ton of game with the .243, 257, even the 222 and 22-250 on deer...I know that used properly a 22 L.R. kills deer well and have done that many times on our ranch in Mexico some hundred years ago it seems...

What have I learned from all this? If I am going hunting and intend to take the shots that come, then I want a 308 Win. or larger rifle, for one reason only, the goodest blood trails start at .308 Win..

So your right and your wrong, a .243 will kill a deer, a 308 or 30-06 is better..A 30-06 will kill a Cape Buffalo, a 416 Rem is better.

Use enough gun is always good advise.

I echo Ray.

It is common to say it doesn't take much to kill a black bear (a little more than a deer), but it sure helps if you have a blood trail -- which means making a big enough exit hole so it will stay open with all the winter fat and hair.

There have been some spectacular failures of some loads on DG over the years, which are the source of much heat on this topic. Besides that, much of what remains is, well... possibly useful, and likely not too inaccurate -- until one gets to the hyper-fine yes-no cuts.

Dan

talentrec

I think Terry hit the nail on the head. I don't know of anything you can't take cleanly with a 30-06 or 300 Mag combined with a 375 H&H or larger with best quality bullets.

Personally I have used several different calibers but I'm kind of a rifle crank and enjoy all types of rifles and fooling with differentt loads etc. but none of that is necessary to kill African game.

Mark

Way too much time can be wasted on "frett'n" over specific calibers / loads for specific game animals.

The safest no BS bet for any game anywhere on this planet is any good factory loadings with good bullets (Swift, Barnes, Nosler, etc) for the .375 H&H.

Master the trajectories for a given load with a given bullet and you will be a lot happier and much more successful!

The .375 satisfies all criteria necessary to harvest game animals in africa or anywhere else for that matter.

IMHO,

Jeff

There would not be much to discuss around here if all the BS was cut through & everybody all shot the same shooters.

mike

I met a young man in September of ’95 that was as serious a hunter as I’ve ever known. At an early age he inhereted enough money that it wouldn’t be a problem to do almost anything he wanted for the rest of his life. When I met him he was coming back from 42 days in Tanzania on a full bag safari... that was his 4th safari THAT year! His goal was to hunt 250 days per year and take representatives of most of the big game animals in the world by age 30!!!! He was able to accomplish that goal.

To my point: He owned 3 guns... period. All three were plain-Jane, stone-stalk Browning A-bolts with high quality scopes. One was in .30-06 and two were in .375 H&H Mag. (one as a spare). He simply grabbed Federal Premium Ammo off the shelf, sighted in and went hunting.

I’ve met VERY few people that were in the same league as him from a marksmanship standpoint. One shot, any sane distance, anytime, any conditions... he was unbelievably good.

I hung around him once during an SCI convention. Everyone hassled him to buy their custom rifle in a newer, faster caliber with custom ammo, etc. He would always say, “No thanks, my stuff works just fineâ€. He was a hunter, not a rifle guy or techno nerd.

There’s nothing wrong with being into the equipment (I am) but don’t let anyone fool you into thinking all the extra gyrations the nerds do are necessary to take game.

Kyler

Kyler,
I happen to agree with your friend and with Ray as he posted above. The various rifles, types and bullets are much like fishing lures - items designed to catch fishermen, not fish.

I am a .300 win mag with a .375 H&H fan.

To add to that, I have a good friend, Jeff Neal (who many of you know), that has taken every big game animal on the planet except Mountain Nyala - took at 27 of the North American animals and hosts of others. His comments to me are - shoot whatever you shoot best, leave "pretty gun" at home, practice a lot, have fun. He shoots whatever he has handy - usually a .375 H&H.