Gents,

I have been perusing guns on-line and came across a mauser model 66 in 458 win mag that had dual triggers. Please help me understand their functionality as they would seem to me to have about as much use as tits on a boar. Thanks.

Bwanahile,

The rear trigger is pulled back to set the main triggers "hair trigger" function. There are probably more technically correct ways to say it though. In Norwegian we call it a "Snellert" trigger. Not sure what it's called in English. Sorry...

It is mostly found on smaller calibured European rifles.

That make sense, but on a 458

As you said, it was on a Mauser model 66, and lots of them came that way. I'm sure that a Mauser expert such as ALF can fill us in with more info.

Btw, is it maybe called a "Set trigger" in English?

Its called a "set" trigger. My dad has an old style percussion cap rifle with this two trigger setup. When the set trigger is used the weight of the trigger is... well the gun goes off before you feel the trigger touch your finger.

Sounds like a major accident waiting to happen to me. (but it does look cool)

The rifle in my picture is a 7x57 Mauser and had this dual trigger setup. I have always known it as a "hair" trigger.

It has a normal trigger weight if you do not set the rear trigger. When the rear trigger is set then it only needs the slightest pressure to fire.

I assume the idea of this is to help reduce any movement of the firer as some people move/flinch as they start squeezing the trigger.

From my experience its just as safe as any rifle, at the end of the day you shouldnt have your finger anywhere near a trigger if your not planning on firing anyway

I've got double set triggers on my .308.It goes on every hunting trip I make. I am so use to them that I hate to shoot a double.

Double set triggers are kind of ridiculous on a DGR--just something else that might go wrong in the heat of the moment when you need everything to go right. Also, when unset, the trigger pull weight on the front trigger can be very heavy.

I do have double set triggers on a Mauser 98 German guild rifle and it's fun to shoot with the trigger set. It takes a different kind of concentration and coordination because once you start the trigger pull it happens very fast and you can't change your mind.

It takes some getting used to, but I wouldn't hesitate to use a rifle with a double set trigger on non-dangerous game.

I've never shot one with this setup. However, I love my two-stage trigger on my Walther LGR Match air rifle. The one on my Airforce Talon SS isn't as good though.

Does this set trigger have the two-stage feel?

Thanks,

Minkman

Set triggers are an acquired taste. If you have shot them a lot, you can become used to them, and deal with them almost automatically. If you are not used to them, stay clear (all the more so on a DGR!). Without proper training (as in hundres of hours), they have serious safety implications, apart from being noisy and fiddly.

Set triggers are essentially a way to overcome heavy trigger pulls - i.e. an attempted fix for poor triggers. They can be made very well (e.g. the Anschutz target trigger - one of the best), but most of them will move quite a distance when set - as opposed to a first class direct trigger.

If you are used to them, fine. If not, stay clear.
- mike

quote:

Originally posted by Minkman:
I've never shot one with this setup. However, I love my two-stage trigger on my Walther LGR Match air rifle. The one on my Airforce Talon SS isn't as good though.

Does this set trigger have the two-stage feel?

Thanks,

Minkman

Mine is nothing like a two stage. If I just pull the front trigger, it's like a heavy single stage. If I pull the rear trigger first, there's an audible click and it sets the front.

Then if I so much as tickle the front--BANG!

Mike is right. It takes a lot of getting used to. When it's set, you have be willing to fire as soon as you so much as touch the front trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Mike is right. It takes a lot of getting used to. When it's set, you have be willing to fire as soon as you so much as touch the front trigger.

And herein lies one of the (many) problems with set triggers. This way of adjusting them is common in Europe. IMHO, it causes you to slap the trigger, because you can't realisticly be on them, and perform a controlled trigger pull. On a regular basis, I had to get that habbit sorted out with my late hunting partner, who started missing shots once or twice a year for this exact reason.

That said, a set trigger can normally be adjusted for pull weight - even in set mode. The better way to have it adjusted, is to have it sufficiently heavy to allow you to have your finger on the trigger, even when the darn thing is set. Mabe 10-20 oz pull weight, or something?

A lot of set triggers work as 2-stage when un-set.

- mike

Isn't the Mauser 66 one of those new actions where part of the action moves back as you cycle the bolt?

If that is the case, it would be another reason to stay away from it!

.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Isn't the Mauser 66 one of those new actions where part of the action moves back as you cycle the bolt?

If that is the case, it would be another reason to stay away from it!

Saeed,

Yes, it the action moves back when you cycle the bolt. Although calling it new wouldn't be quite correct. It came out in 1965.

(EDIT: Looks like ALF beat me by a few seconds with his great pictures. As usual, pictures can say 1000 words.)

.

ALF,

I sure they have their reasons for making new developments in rifle design.

The trouble is me personally. I just like what I call a normal bolt action rifle.

I have not see this new trap gun, but I remember seeing some strange looking ones in the US in the early 80s when I was there. In fact, you might remember the Ljuitic shotguns.

I was at the Grand American Trap Shgoot at Vandalia, and the trigger on my own shotgun - a $200 Browning single barrel BT-99 - was playing up, and mr Ljutic saw me trying to fix it. He kindly offered to it for me, and took my shotgun to his tent. He asked me if I wanted to try one of his shotguns while he fixed mine.

I did, and enjoyed shooting it on the practice field, but it just did not feel right for me.

I have set triggers on my Mannlicher Shoenauers and a custom Mauser. The nice thing about a set trigger is the fact that you can set the trigger to any pull weight that you are comfortable with from 8 oz. to 1.5 lbs. The MS front trigger can be used as a two stage when not set and is around 2 lbs. You don't have to slap the trigger just squeeze. Once you get used to them you love them.I believe a set trigger makes a mediocur shot into a very good shot. JMHO

quote:

Originally posted by GRP:
Once you get used to them you love them. JMHO

The trouble being that you hate rifles without. As some have to be without (eg driven game etc) I would rather be used to a 2lb trigger that I can use in all situations.

1894, I happen to agree with you 100%. It is hard to switch back and forth - plus with lack of training and familiarity, the safety issue with the set triggers always lurks. On the other hand, I see a lot of people who are used to these rifles, shoot them a lot, shoot them well, and seem to cope with the safety and noise issues. I feel in that case, all is well, and I'd hate to sound like I was preaching my choice to these shooters.
- mike

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ALF,

Yes, it was the space gun.

Still, I preferred my cheapo BT-99, which I used to shoot over 7000 registered singles with, ending the year with a 99 average.

In fact, towards teh end of the year, I was shooting it with no front bead, as it had fallen off!

I was the laughing stock of the trap boys!

Pure speculation on my behalf for this partucular Mauser 66.....but some of them were manufactured as switch-barrel guns. A hunting buddy of mine has one with .22-250 & 8x68 barrels. It could be that the Mauser 66 you describe in .458 Win. Mag. originally had another barrel in a caliber more condusive to shooting with a set-trigger? Without going into the technical details of operating a set trigger (which if correctly constructed & adjusted the front trigger should be a good two-stage trigger when used in the "non-set" mode). They have their advantages & disadvantges for specific purposes. Like most have already stated a DG gun is opinioned as NOT the right place to have or attempt to use a set trigger. Having said that I do have a set trigger on a 9.3x62 Mauser I use almost exclusively for Driven Hunts and I do set the trigger when time avails itself. While this may sound unusual or perhaps unsafe to the unititated, the vast majority of World-Class Running Boar target shooters use set or 100 gram two-stage triggers. The reason is simple when you set the trigger and swing through the target you want Bang to happen right NOW! It works.

Other than Autumn & Winter Driven Hunts for Wild Boar & Red Deer (which is only a minute percentage of the countless hundreds of thousands/millions of man-hours spent waiting to ambush game animals) virtually all German hunting is conducted as selective culling from High Seats/Stands (elevated stands). Thus the reason so many Tuetonic rifles have a set trigger. The concept (and Legal basis for German Hunting - conservation & balanced environment) is to dispatch an unsuspecting & calm animal evaluated from a vantage point for sex, age & trophy quality then accurately place a shot with the classic "Blatt Schuss" (right behind the point of the elbow shot) so as not to destroy valuable meat which is then sold on the open market to Game Vendors. This type of hunting lends itself well to calm, unhurried shooting where a set trigger is perfectly adequate and a real accuracy aid, net, suitable for German shooting style.

Like Bwanahile I also consider the .458 Win Mag. set-up (a 100 gram pun?) he mentioned pretty irregular.

I love double set triggers for running shots, and that is what they were designed for as opposed to target shooting as many folks have conceived..and they work...

I would not have a problem using them on a 458 on dangerous game, but I would not recommend them to someone that was not familier with them..

I have studied the Mauser model 66 and owned a couple of them and they are an absolute stroke of genius, they feed and function like glass on ice, a lovely rifle, the only problem is they look like a damn Mossberg shotgun, just too ugly for my taste...

I even had a custom stocked mod. 66 375 H&H, by a well known gunmaker, and it was a beatiful piece of French walnut, the gun was still ugly to my eyes..I see that gun for sale from time to time in Gunlist.