I always wonder about the logic of paying for a cull hunt, can someone explain this to me?

I went to Zimbabwe to hunt Cape Buffalo. I paid for that, daily rates and trophy fees. I shot a nice Buff. The mount is nearly done. Lots of pictures and memories.

I went to SA to hunt plains game. I paid for that, daily fees and trophy fees. Those mounts are within 30 days of being done. Lots of memories and pictures.

Everybody else here seems to follow the same pattern.

Soooooooooooo, what is the appeal of paying nearly as much for a cull hunt? If nobody buys into this thing, do those animals get to live? Does the government hunter or a nearby PH just go shoot them for free? Who gets the cull hunt $$$?

It takes me a solid year to save the money for a hunt in Africa. Pictures are cool, memories are unbeatable. Mounted trophies and hide rugs are as good, and last forever.

Am I missing something?

regards,

Rich

For me it would be money..

You can go on a "PAC" hunt and hunt alot of jumbos instead of one trophy ele. You want the experience but you just dont want to pay 30K for each shot.

If nobody buys a PAC hunt then its up to the outfitter to kill them, I know of some appies that have killed some PAC´s etc.

Hi Rich,

We offer cull hunts to make some money foremost and also to get our outfitting business names known a bit better. The animals are gonna get shot anyway, so we try kill 2 birds with one stone. Hopefully the client has a good safari and will return in the future for a trophy hunt and bring a buddy or two with him.

Whether I, a friend or a client (paying a nominal fee) shoot the animal, it does'nt make a difference, the animal will die anyway and the landowner will be paid for the meat.

As to why culling is done, I wont even go into that as I'm pretty sure we all know that it is neccessary!

Why would a client want to come over and do this cull hunt? Its a very attractive offer in my opinoin. You go to Hunt in Africa, notice i said hunt and not shoot (this depends on the type of species being culled), blesbuck are shot and kudu's are hunted. Its alot cheaper than a trophy hunt, with more hunting/shooting, with the exact same accomodation, food, guide, hospitality as a trophy hunt. The client can taxidermy as many of the "trophies" skulls, horns, tusks, skins and send home as he wants ( in East Cape anyway). A european mount of a big old Blue wildebeest cow is pretty nice to have on the wall and a couple of springbuck rugs on the floor would look good to. The cull hunt is also a great way to get a virgin African hunter started, get acclimatized to the species, travelling, hunting etc. The client can also hunt trophies while on a cull safari at no extra cost besides the trophy fee.

The animal does'nt have to be a record book trophy to give you good memories does it? I think the hunt is what you remember the fondest. Dont get me wrong I love trophy hunting aswell and there's nothing like hunting a particular trophy animal for a few seasons before finally getting the better of him and getting to put him up on your wall.

Two guys that post on AR are doing a cull hunt with me starting this Friday, I'm sure that they will post a hunt report after the hunt and lets see what they have to say?

Regards

Murray

This thread has been moved by the Moderator from the Offered Hunts forum where it was originally posted.

First, I will admit that I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today, but this forum is for posting hunts. You just bumped someone's hunt off the first page. We come here to see hunts posted. The Africa and Big Game forums would be great spots for a thread like this.

I will get off the soap box now, but these type of threads here......well, enough said.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob in TX:
First, I will admit that I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today, but this forum is for posting hunts. You just bumped someone's hunt off the first page. We come here to see hunts posted. The Africa and Big Game forums would be great spots for a thread like this.

I will get off the soap box now, but these type of threads here......well, enough said.

+1!!!!!!

Exactly. Rich seems to think rules don't apply to his posts.

Idaho,
You are mostly right but.
Where am I going to put an elephant???

I am one of the guys who is going to be hunting with settlers,I appreciate a chance to hunt at the prices that he offered,I hunt for the adventure and time spent in the great outdoors,trophies are not that important to me,the hunt is,I am very much looking forward to it!!

quote:

I always wonder about the logic of paying for a cull hunt, can someone explain this to me?

Whats the point in shooting ground hogs or shooting doves in Argentina or geese its the same thing only with animals.

A friend of mine from Michigan did a 10 springbuck cull that was a driven hunt and it took the morning and a small portion of the afternoon to complete. He stated that every hunter should do a cull like this before a safari as the lessons he learned in one day cull hunting was worth a lifetime of hunting in his native michigan.

Its a whole bunch of things to different people, to the outfitter its a new angle somthing different to offer. To the land owner its getting rid of animals that are taking up unnesassary space and he gets somthing for it,who shoots the females as only males are trophies, and for the hunter its the chance to hunt 10times the animals at 1/2 the price and gain tons of hunting experience along the way.

Some guys have done it all and done what they want but still want to hunt and thats where the cull hunts fit in.Its a HUNT with no dip and pack and no taxidermy just hunting
Dave

P.S as for BUMPING someones hunt to second place this is my point exactly few people can afford the hunts on offer even at ridiculously low prices. Thats where the cull hunts come in affordable African Safaris where trophies can be added.

quote:

shooting doves in Argentina or geese its the same thing only with animals.

There is a slight difference between one and the other - dove shooting is in volumes with no charges per bird, in between costs are few and far between (air travel, hunting and firearm permits and sometimes hire charges for a firearm)- board/lodging is part of the tariff.
A good number of these dove shooting outfitters also throw in up to a couple of 1000 complimentary rounds included in the bargain.
IMO a "cull" as you describe has already condemned a determined number of animals for elimination, by the hand of a client or otherwise.
No harm in selling the EXPERIENCE but I don't agree that the client should pay for the animals in whatever measure, nor should any part of the animal be salvaged as a trophy or memento to the hunter's favor seeing the proceeds of the meet belong to the "farmer".

I've done 2 cull hunts now, both times I took additional trophies. The kind of cull hunt included driven springbok. Both hunts were fantastic and I learned a lot from those hunts, I had loads of skins as well as my few trophies but most of all the memories were just as good whether it was a cull animal or a trophy. I hunted harder for some of the cull animals than I did on some of the trophies. If you want to hunt on the cheap and take the odd trophy then I'd definately recomend it to anyone, after all you're still in Africa

I culled 4 gemsbok on my last trip to Namibia and loved it. The stalk was exactly the same as for a trophy and I gladly paid the daily rate. I would jump at the chance to do it again.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob in TX:
First, I will admit that I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today, but this forum is for posting hunts. You just bumped someone's hunt off the first page. We come here to see hunts posted. The Africa and Big Game forums would be great spots for a thread like this.

I will get off the soap box now, but these type of threads here......well, enough said.

I guess I am not reaDING SOMETHING RIGHT. Idaho has it posted in African Hunting, not hunts for sale. Right?

It was originally posted in the "Hunts for sale" forum but was moved recently to this forum by the mod's.

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Bob in TX:
First, I will admit that I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today, but this forum is for posting hunts. You just bumped someone's hunt off the first page. We come here to see hunts posted. The Africa and Big Game forums would be great spots for a thread like this.

I will get off the soap box now, but these type of threads here......well, enough said.

I guess I am not reaDING SOMETHING RIGHT. Idaho has it posted in African Hunting, not hunts for sale. Right?

This post has been moved.

Hunting is hunting.

Trophies are sort of secondary to the process, at least in terms of the reason I chase them in any event.

What's all the whining about where a topic is posted? We have the African Forum, the African Travel Forum and the African Hunt Report Forum. Most any African subject COULD most likely be on any of the three as many don't just pertain to any one certain subject, but may include some travel notes, who an outfitter was as well as some success on the hunt or what kind of rifle or ammo should one use.

I for one am just glad people are willing to post here despite some of the unwanted, whining and bitching they receive if not done "according to Hoyle". I think I complained some in the past, but have now seen the big picture. If it's Africa, who cares what forum it's on!!

Geez, give people a break. If you see a subject YOU THINK is not in the right place and don't like it, SIMPLY skip right over it and go to one that meets your restrictive shortcomings. Let the moderators change it if they so desire.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Most any African subject COULD most likely be on any of the three as many don't just pertain to any one certain subject, but may include some travel notes, who an outfitter was as well as some success on the hunt or what kind of rifle or ammo should one use.

Larry,

This thread was moved. He started it in the Hunts Offered forum. Appartently the Moderators agreed with me. I doubt you would want one of the hunts you post there bumped off the page by an irrelevant thread which had nothing to do with posting a hunt available.

Good Hunting,

Bob

Yeah but it's ISS, we expect the occasional bout of random behaviour!

Things like this keep the fora ticking over.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob in TX:
First, I will admit that I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today, but this forum is for posting hunts. You just bumped someone's hunt off the first page. We come here to see hunts posted. The Africa and Big Game forums would be great spots for a thread like this.

I will get off the soap box now, but these type of threads here......well, enough said.

quote:

By Gatogordo

+1!!!!!!

Exactly. Rich seems to think rules don't apply to his posts.

xxxxxxxxxx

Excuse me but unless this has been moved, This "IS" the African Big game hunting thread! You post hunts on HUNTING REPORTS !

If it was posted on HUNT ON OFFER then the question he post was a question pertaining booking a hunt!

Man! when you guys get a guy down you just seem ti kick him harder because he's down! I really don't see the problem!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Bob in TX:
First, I will admit that I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today, but this forum is for posting hunts. You just bumped someone's hunt off the first page. We come here to see hunts posted. The Africa and Big Game forums would be great spots for a thread like this.

I will get off the soap box now, but these type of threads here......well, enough said.

quote:

By Gatogordo

+1!!!!!!

Exactly. Rich seems to think rules don't apply to his posts.

xxxxxxxxxx

Excuse me but unless this has been moved, This "IS" the African Big game hunting thread! You post hunts on HUNTING REPORTS !

Mac,

Obviously you didn't read all of the posts. This thread was orginally posted in the Outfitters - Offered and Discounted Hunts.

Now back to the topic, who really cares if the animals are cull or trophies. The hunter can decide how he wants to spend his money. If he chooses to shoot 5-6 trophy animals or 15 cull animals on a safari, who am I to tell him what he should or shouldn't be doing on his safari.

I guess I do this somewhat on my whitetail hunts in Oklahoma because I usually only shoot does and pass all of the little bucks. Some might consider this to a cull hunt also.

To each his own!

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:
For me it would be money..

You can go on a "PAC" hunt and hunt alot of jumbos instead of one trophy ele. You want the experience but you just dont want to pay 30K for each shot.

If nobody buys a PAC hunt then its up to the outfitter to kill them, I know of some appies that have killed some PAC´s etc.

quote:

Excuse me but unless this has been moved, This "IS" the African Big game hunting thread!

Exactly. That was my point Mac. We agree! That is why the Moderators moved the thread here to the Africa forum from the Outfitters-Hunts Offered forum where it was originally posted.

Go back and read all the posts.

Trophy hunting is essentially culling is it not? The targeting of old mature males that are almost (if not) passed their prime is a key target of a cull plan.

quote:

Originally posted by Cumbrian:
Trophy hunting is essentially culling is it not? The targeting of old mature males that are almost (if not) passed their prime is a key target of a cull plan.

Not necessarily so - culling is mainly aimed at reducing numbers and foresees the elimination of both male, female and young (if the female is accompanied by one).
While this may not be the rule of thumb it is the norm in maintaining a sustainable balance between the sexes.
The rancher will probably issue strict instructions NOT to shoot a trophy bearing specimen.

Well its just putting a dollar value on the animal to keep money in the country culling the animals would be shot anyways trophy hunting you take mature old animals which are about in the prime and on their way out

quote:

Originally posted by Millwall Paul:
I've done 2 cull hunts now, both times I took additional trophies. The kind of cull hunt included driven springbok. Both hunts were fantastic and I learned a lot from those hunts, I had loads of skins as well as my few trophies but most of all the memories were just as good whether it was a cull animal or a trophy. I hunted harder for some of the cull animals than I did on some of the trophies. If you want to hunt on the cheap and take the odd trophy then I'd definately recomend it to anyone, after all you're still in Africa

Well said!


More and more I'm realizing this is the only way I can enjoy hunting Africa again...I'll get in a lot more hunting and shooting for my money with a cull hunt and the occasional trophy animal!

Since I am a po'boy, I looked at PAC hunts for Eles very seriously just so I could kill one of those magnificent beast but timing did not work out for me to go.
Thanks to weshixon@weshixon.com , I now have a "Real" Ele hunt scheduled for 2012....Wes is a friend and knows my limitations at 69 when I will hunt with him for Ele.
Meanwhile, I have had a blast culling animals for free in RSA with my friend, outfitter, PH and excellent taxidermist! Tooo many springbok? We can hancle that---maybe even bet on one shot kills to head at over 300 metres! With .22-250's of course!

At last count there were eleven people who only post here in response to a thread I start. I am happy to provide them with a reason to log on.

To the old fart in Texas, get someone to show you how to scroll down from the first page. It's really easy, and only takes a minute. They did not remove the post. Evidently at least one of the moderators deemed it a worthwhile question.

The question I asked was a valid one. Most of the answers were pretty lame and predictable.

regards,

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
What's all the whining about where a topic is posted? We have the African Forum, the African Travel Forum and the African Hunt Report Forum. Most any African subject COULD most likely be on any of the three as many don't just pertain to any one certain subject, but may include some travel notes, who an outfitter was as well as some success on the hunt or what kind of rifle or ammo should one use.

I for one am just glad people are willing to post here despite some of the unwanted, whining and bitching they receive if not done "according to Hoyle". I think I complained some in the past, but have now seen the big picture. If it's Africa, who cares what forum it's on!!

Geez, give people a break. If you see a subject YOU THINK is not in the right place and don't like it, SIMPLY skip right over it and go to one that meets your restrictive shortcomings. Let the moderators change it if they so desire.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Well stated Larry. Who cares if it was started on outfitters hunts. Honestly with the recent blowup there about a cull hunt posting a question about cull hunts there doesn't seem that out of line.

quote:

To the old fart in Texas, get someone to show you how to scroll down from the first page. It's really easy, and only takes a minute. They did not remove the post. Evidently at least one of the moderators deemed it a worthwhile question.

OK, I know I shouldn't, but I will make one more stab at it.

Rich, no one said they "removed the post". They moved the entire thread here to this forum where it is more appropriate and will get better response.

Howard, most of us, obviously not you, just want to see hunts posted in the Offered Hunts forum. That is why Saeed started it in the first place so we would have one place to look for available hunts and not have to sort through a bunch of other "discussion" threads to find hunts. Most folks have respected the intent of the forum and applauded Saeed for giving us a place to post and find hunts without distractions, leaving plenty of other forums for general topical discussions. Y'all certainly have the right to disagree. I was not making any personal attack or resorting to any name calling. I just made a comment that I felt the thread was out of place in the Offered Hunts forum and the Moderators agreed and moved it here.

I think it is a good topic for this forum, as I stated in my first post, and I hope the conversation goes back to cull hunts.

Good Hunting,

"The whining, bitching, kick 'em when their down, computer illiterate, old fart from Texas"

quote:

Well stated Larry. Who cares if it was started on outfitters hunts. Honestly with the recent blowup there about a cull hunt posting a question about cull hunts there doesn't seem that out of line.

Horse manure. In answer to your question, I guess the people who care are the people who want to respect the RULES CLEARLY posted by the owner of this FREE site, AND....the legitimate posters in that forum who are following the rules and trying to sell hunts to members.

I moved this thread because the "Oufitters - Offered and Discounted Hunts" forum is for outfitters and booking agents to offer hunts.

It is NOT for Members to post question threads, 'want to book' threads, or other threads by those not in the business.

Members may certainly respond to threads opened by outfitters and booking agents, but should not start new threads. There are other forums available for that purpose.

Thank you for your cooperation (even you, Rich )
George

To me, the hunt is the trophy. I love that part. Once you pull the trigger, the fun part turns to work.

Oh good grief

Bob, nobody is saying it is not more appropriately placed where it currently resides. All anyone is saying is it was not a big deal.

Gatogordo: It was one lousy thread, you act like it's an epidemic and you are personally harmed by it. I think it horse manure that you are so bent out of shape over it.

cheers

To answer the original question, once you have gotten over the mount mania, you will find yourself wanting to go back to hunt but not have every animal mounted. You run out of new species after a while. Then the appeal of a cull hunt becomes the opportunity to do a lot of hunting (or shooting) at a modest price. For elephant, at 60% off the price of a trophy (which for many means a modest 35-45lb bull). For plains game, sometimes you pay no trophy fee at all.

A true cull is not really a hunt. You will shoot animals at night with a light from the car. Or over water. This is not for everyone. The most sporting true cull is a driven springbok hunt. A true elephant cull is no place for a wannabe ranger.

There is something in between a cull and a trophy hunt, usually called a "management" hunt. Here you are shooting selected (inferior) animals. This is usually a proper fair chase hunt and well worth it.

PAC elephant are not really a cull, these hunts are invariably conducted at night in crop lands by moonlight or artificial light, and quite dangerous. Most times the elephant try to run off, requiring a quick shot, but sometimes they come, and then you are faced with stopping a charge by flashlight.

The necessity for culls stems from the fact that shooting only trophy quality males on a fenced property soon leads to a population explosion. You have to step up to the reality of shooting females at some point.

A lot of culling is done by the owner or operator. Most don't try to sell these hunts, as most clients just get in the way of the business at hand.

And the answer to the question about what happens if the cull is not sold ... if it's a bona fide cull, the animals are going to get shot anyway.

However sometimes the "cull hunt" is really a "loss leader" marketing ploy to get you over there, and shoot a couple of ratty impala and a female BWB, and then when you see a big Kudu or a nice Nyala bull, you can't help yourself. I would bet that most hunters on cheap "cull" hunts end up spending a good deal more than they planned to spend.

Please tell me what PAC stands for.

Question asked & now answered by Russ. My sincere thanks to you Sir!

Every trophy hunt I have seen posted, here and elsewhere, the $$$ involved reflect very closely either the rarity (and desirability) of the offered animal, or the size of the trophies available.

Members here (and in the rest of the world) take the gamble going on Safari based almost solely on the length of the horn or weight of the ivory, or skull and rug size of cats and bears.

One does not see many reports of the grandeur of cull hunts, or of rows of dead small antelope. SCI and Rowland-Ward do not have a section in the record books for runts.

I refer you all one more time to the esteemed Funk&Wagnalls New Practical Standard Dictionary.
CULL: to select and choose out, to REJECT!!!

These are what we call scrubs, another way to say undesirables. The best part of the whole charade is that if no one here participates some market hunter will come out to the farm/ranch and just shoot the animals for the hides for leather and the meat to make into sausage or biltong. These farmers raise these animals just like my nephew and I raise cows. We sell them for the meat to butchers and to livestock markets. No sport of glory, or real sense of accomplishment involved.

There needs, IMHO, to be a very lowball price, since you buy these animals and the ranch or PH makes the money off of the meat sales.

As Russ also mentioned, it gets you there and then you pony up for some good specimens because you already spent at least $1250 for a long, ugly plane ride that lasted two friggin' days, and you get to repeat that airline's version of the chinese water torture again when you are done hunting.

You are paying for oats, at market value that have been processed thru the horse already. And you don't even get to keep the manure for Mamma's Rose Garden.

Rebuttal requested, but no sane explaination expected.

regards to all,

Rich

PAC-Problem Animal Control

Okay, so the animals are a crop.

From the landowners' viewpoint: We have to harvest the crop. We will do it ourselves if necessary, but past experience shows us that if we price it at such-and-such a level, we will get a certain number of persons who will do part of it for us. Since we still get the crop to sell, this strategy will increase our overall profit on it. Who knows, maybe they will decide to pick, and pay for, a few of our prize roses while they are here.

From the hunters' viewpoint: I don't care about picking roses...that's too expensive. I love harvesting a crop, and this program lets me harvest a cheaper crop, so that my budget allows me to harvest more of it. If I choose to pick a rose or two, and pay extra for the privilege, that's okay too.

Sounds like everyone is happy. That's always the best kind of business transaction...so where is the problem?

John

quote:

Originally posted by Bob in TX:
First, I will admit that I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today, but this forum is for posting hunts. You just bumped someone's hunt off the first page. We come here to see hunts posted. The Africa and Big Game forums would be great spots for a thread like this.

I will get off the soap box now, but these type of threads here......well, enough said.

I agree you need a higher bed to fall out of ...