Is there one?

It seems like there is a hall of fame for everything but I have never heard of an International hunting hall of fame.

I think the Weatherby Award comes closest.

Bill,
You are probably right but I was wondering if there was a physical building or room that contained busts of Selous etc. along with articles of their equipment. Not just for Africa but Alaska, South America, Australia,Europe etc.

It seems like such a thing should exist - where would be the most appropriate city for it?

Sounds like a bragging hall of honour if it was for current hunters. Too much like the current "awards".

For historical guys it would be quite cool though.

There once was an entity called the "Hunting Hall of Fame" but its founder died and its assets eventually went to SCI, which had (and has) its own Hunting Hall of Fame awards.

I know this because I was named in a lawsuit the Hunting Hall of Fame filed against SCI for using its name.

To my knowledge, there is no resting place for memorabilia of famous hunters.

SCI Hall of Fame inductees have included Fred Bear, Bill Ruger, Prince Abdorezza, C.J. McElroy and a few other names most hunters will recognize, but Roosevelt, Selous, O'Connor and others you might expect to be included were not.

The Weatherby Award has been presented only to living hunters, and dates back to 1956, so Roosevelt and Selous would not have received it.

Bill Quimby

heros in their own minds

You know McElroy would be in it if SCI touched it. I'd be very surprised if he wasn't the first one named, but I don't know and really don't care.

Palmer - a very interesting thought but I am daunted by the possible scope of such a venture. Just where might one draw the line in regard to housing taxidermy, for example, where so much already exists in private collections, commercial exhibits and museums and how much more would be donated as lifelong hunters depart. I've often pondered how much wonderful hunting memorabilia has been trashed for all eternity by the non-hunting survivors, worldwide.

Getting exhibits would be no problem, but you'll need a patron willing to foot the cost of the structure, payroll, upkeep, utilities, promotion and insurance for the next 50 years. Museums rely on grants. The price of admission is never enough.

Bill Quimby

This is certainly a place I wish to spend time at soon:

Jack O'Connor Heritage Center

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
Getting exhibits would be no problem, but you'll need a patron willing to foot the cost of the structure, payroll, upkeep, utilities, promotion and insurance for the next 50 years. Museums rely on grants. The price of admission is never enough.

Perhaps someone could do what a lot of wealthy Scots used to do. When they die, instead of leaving an inheritance to their family, leave it all to build a huge edifice in memorial to themselves.

quote:

I've often pondered how much wonderful hunting memorabilia has been trashed for all eternity by the non-hunting survivors, worldwide.

As a recent example, what has happened to Ian's rifles, pictures etc.? Perhaps they will find an appropriate home but its a shame such things often do not get into a place where they can be appreciated by more than just a few.

I will like to see a hall of fame but we must include too native hunters that kill lion with spearslike masais,or special good trackers and guides from the world.Juan

It's amazing that the Jack O'Connor Heritage Center exists. He was the dean of America's outdoor writers to be sure, but his hunting feats were limited when compared to several hundred of today's international hunters.

His Asian hunts, for example, were limited to India and Iran. I think he hunted a bit in Europe, but he never made it to the South Pacific or South America and he hunted only a couple of countries in Africa. Craig Boddington has taken more species in more places than O'Connor ever dreamed possible.

Bill Quimby

"Perhaps someone could do what a lot of wealthy Scots used to do. When they die, instead of leaving an inheritance to their family, leave it all to build a huge edifice in memorial to themselves. "

It's been done many times all over North America, and it's still going on.

Hubert Thummler in Mexico told me he has informed his heirs that he will donate his huge hacienda with its three large trophy rooms and hundreds of lifesize mounts to the government for use as a natural history museum after his death.

I also know several international hunters who aren't waiting until they die to donate their trophies. They've already donated them to natural history museums. I can't blame them. If they die owning 200-300 mounted trophies, the IRS will have the trophies appraised and consider their value subject to estate taxes.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
It's amazing that the Jack O'Connor Heritage Center exists. He was the dean of America's outdoor writers to be sure, but his hunting feats were limited when compared to several hundred of today's international hunters.

His Asian hunts, for example, were limited to India and Iran. I think he hunted a bit in Europe, but he never made it to the South Pacific or South America and he hunted only a couple of countries in Africa. Craig Boddington has taken more species in more places than O'Connor ever dreamed possible.

Bill Quimby

Apples to Oranges. O'Connor was over 50 before he ever had the resources to hunt Africa, India, Iran or Scotland. He had to struggle through the depression and the war years while raising a family and the "economics" of the gunwriter / advertiser relationships, as we know them, were only just evolving. Not to mention the relative ease of travel we enjoy today. Yet, he still managed a few trips to India and Iran and ten extended African Safaris. The scope of O'Connor's overall accomplishments and contributions is astounding, his "Sphere of Influence" ... unchallenged.

quote:

Originally posted by Nickudu:
This is certainly a place I wish to spend time at soon:

Jack O'Connor Heritage Center

Should be neat, but the guys in the Lewis and Clark valley photos riding the horses should lose those goofy looking helmets.

Posted 23 December 2006 17:16 Hide Post

quote:
Originally posted by billrquimby:
It's amazing that the Jack O'Connor Heritage Center exists. He was the dean of America's outdoor writers to be sure, but his hunting feats were limited when compared to several hundred of today's international hunters.
His Asian hunts, for example, were limited to India and Iran. I think he hunted a bit in Europe, but he never made it to the South Pacific or South America and he hunted only a couple of countries "O'Connor was over 50 before he ever had the resources to hunt Africa, India, Iran or Scotland. He had to struggle through the depression and the war years while raising a family and the "economics" of the gunwriter / advertiser relationships, as we know them, were only just evolving. Not to mention the relative ease of travel we enjoy today. Yet, he still managed a few trips to India and Iran and ten extended African Safaris."

I agree that O'Connor's "sphere of influence" was considerable.

Unchallenged? I'm not sure about that. In the world of hunting today a "few trips to India and Iran and ten extended African safaris" is nothing. Weatherby Award candidates aren't even considered before they collect 200 different types of animals from six continents and dozens of countries.

As for economics, most of O'Connor's hunting costs that weren't comped by outfitters went on his Outdoor Life expense account or were picked up by his "pals" he so frequently mentioned.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Unchallenged? I'm not sure about that. In the world of hunting today a "few trips to India and Iran and ten extended African safaris" is nothing.

My point exactly. Apples and Oranges.

quote:

Weatherby Award candidates aren't even considered before they collect 200 different types of animals from six continents and dozens of countries.

O'Connor didn't need the Weatherby Award ... it needed him.

Jack O'Connor Bio

Better than a building and all of the costs, expenses, upkeep, etc. etc., might be a book. How about it Bill Quimby?

O'Connor didn't need the Weatherby Award ... it needed him.
Jack O'Connor Bio
The Nickudu Files
<<<<<O'Connor didn't need the Weatherby Awad ... it needed him. >>>>

Nickudu, you are right. Roy Weatherby was a great promoter. His answer to O'Connor's bad-mouthing his rifles and stock designs was to give O'Connor the second-ever Weatherby Award. When he followed up by gaving the award to Warren Page the next year, his promotion was off and running. Even in those times, though, the hunting feats of O'Connor and Page were nothing compared to Herb Klein, Elgin Gates, Barry Brooks, Prince Abdorreza and the other early recipients.


<<<<<Better than a building and all of the costs, expenses, upkeep, etc. etc., might be a book. How about it Bill Quimby?>>>>>

It's been done, but not quite as you envision. There are at least a dozen books on famous early hunters. The recent Safari Press book with tales from Weatherby Award winners covers contemporary hunters well.

Bill Quimby

There is a certain irony in this thread.....The Weatherby Award coming closest

Its a toss up whether Wby or Rem 700 is the most disliked on this forum but I think Wby takes the "award" because of also having the hated calibres.

Mike

When I think of a hunting hall of fame, not even close does some of these "hunter-clients" come to mind.

I think of the great do-it-yourself guys, like Bell, Selous, Manners and Corbet, among many others. Some of the great PHs too.

Not the guys having their hands held and with the fatest wallets.

The trailblazers, the adventurers, not the tourists.

I cannot imagine a Hunters' Hall of Fame withoutTheodore Roosevelt, Fred Bear, Howard Hill, Jack O'Connor, Elmer Keith, Roy Weatherby and a whole bunch of other notables who would fall into your "tourist" category.

Bill Quimby

I suppose it would not be "politically correct" today to laud the accomplishments of great hunters.

Nevertheless, if such a facility did exist, it would be interesting to observe the deliberations of the selection committee as to whom were considered worthy inductees.

Would the great poachers of the past such as Pondoro be enshrined? If so, could a present day lawbreaker be considered as worthy or would the present day lawbreaker be considered despicable?

Would modern hunters such as MS be nominated on the basis of innovative marketing?

Bill: But that's what I envision. A book with a chapter about each of the famous. Not dozens of books like we have now and that most of us already have in our libraries. One book, under one cover, with perhaps 15-20 of the most famous. Would definitely be a best seller. Then, if there continued to be disagreements over whether this man or that man should have been included, do a Volume II. So, let's all make a list and then you or someone else could get started on the book. . .

I have a CD here that has Roy Weatherby on Safari and also his TV appearance on You Asked For It and also another TV show about people who had become a success.

Undoubtedly the most noticeable thing on the CD is the hge difference in attitude to guns and hunting back in those days.

Also interesting with Wby's African stuff is amount of animals shot as compared to today.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
I have a CD here that has Roy Weatherby on Safari and also his TV appearance on You Asked For It and also another TV show about people who had become a success.

Undoubtedly the most noticeable thing on the CD is the hge difference in attitude to guns and hunting back in those days.

Also interesting with Wby's African stuff is amount of animals shot as compared to today.

Mike

More or less

Lots more.

I am not sure, but I think the Safari on the video was over 50 days.

Also since interesting seeing Weatherby with Pith helmet.

One thing that stands out as bullshit was the killing power. On some shots you see the shooter and animal and the animal flops down. But on others you just see the shooter firing and then they go up to the dead animal Must have been a couple of other shots fired in between

Mike

"Bill: But that's what I envision. A book with a chapter about each of the famous. Not dozens of books like we have now and that most of us already have in our libraries. One book, under one cover, with perhaps 15-20 of the most famous. Would definitely be a best seller. Then, if there continued to be disagreements over whether this man or that man should have been included, do a Volume II. So, let's all make a list and then you or someone else could get started on the book. . ."


I think it would be damned tough to narrow the number to 15-20. I made a quick list and came up with more than fifty "must haves" in just a few minutes.

Bill Quimby

Who do you have listed?

If it is a true list of great hunters you need to remember the great British hunters who did all the tough hunts before anyone else . Men cuch as Maydon , Littledale , Powell-Cotton ,Swayne ,Kennion . They were the trailblazers who developed the concept of the trophy hunter .
Mark

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
I cannot imagine a Hunters' Hall of Fame withoutTheodore Roosevelt, Fred Bear, Howard Hill, Jack O'Connor, Elmer Keith, Roy Weatherby and a whole bunch of other notables who would fall into your "tourist" category.

True enough for a lot of them, but I would actually like to see included the PHs that held their hands for them on safari in a Hunter Hall of Fame, such as Bror Blixen, Denys Finch-Hatton, Phillip Perceival, John Hunter, Selby and many others.

Isn't largely what is talked about here, otherwise just the same as the SCI type "awards" for eg grand slams etc. Collections of heads.

Interesting thread. The Major League Baseball HOF has a wing for writers. What about a hunting HOF with wings for hunters (Sealous, Bell, et. al.), writers (insert your favorite here), and guides/trackers (natives, PH's, etc...)?

I'll start caring about the Weatherby award when someone who is not a millionaire (or a writer Weatherby needs for promotional purposes) wins it.

So,you start with two volumes. Besides that, I agree that the Weatherby award is mostly for those who are filthy rich or have other connections, not all of the true great hunters that we are talking about. Think about it. A bestseller in the hunting world, and probably one of the best selling books that Safari Press or any other hunting publication organization would ever have in its library. After all, two volumes with a chapter about each hunter is certainly a start. As a writer, the criteria set forth for each hunter to be included in the book would basically be the same; it's just that the actual person and their accomplishments to be shown would be different in each case. I am surprised that we have not had a book like this before now anyway. Hey, I want a cut of the royalties for suggesting it. . .

Two volumes won't sell, in my opinion. As for royalties, I know of no single hunting book that has made a lot of money for its author. Capstick and Boddington did/do well only because they have multiple books that are still selling year after year.

A typical book published by Safari Press or Trophy Room Books will be a limited edition of 1,000 copies selling for $85 to $125 each. The author gets 10% of retail sales. At sellout three to five years after introduction, he will have made only $8,500 to $12,500 ... total. That's not a lot of money for a minimum of six to twelve months of work.

Very few books go into second printings, and if they do it will be in trade editions of 2,500 or so selling for $30 to $50 each. At 10% of retail spread out over several years, that's not much, either.

I get my money from hunter-subjects and not publishers. My final check comes before the book goes to print.

As for the Weatherby Award, there is no way someone who is not a multi-millionaire (a million doesn't buy much anymore) can meet its requirements in the number of major hunts and species taken.

On the other hand I have written books for five WA winners and all five of them endured amazing hardships en route to collecting many of their trophies. They didn't just climb out of a plane, shoot something, and fly off again as some would believe happens on all of their hunts.

Bill Quimby

All right Bill, ok. Just tryin' to help. Isn't part of what you do in your profession as a writer, "A Labor of Love", especially for all of us AR members and other dedicated African hunters? I would love to read a two volume set on the greatest African Hunters. A chapter apiece is enough on each for me. But I guess I won't need to worry about it. My safari press library is very large already and I have read almost all of them at least once. That is my personal relaxation and therapy, along with the actual hunting that I have already done and will do in the future in Africa.

I misunderstood what we were discussing, I guess. There are several very good books about the greatest African hunters. I was thinking about the international hunters who deserve recognition. My list of hunters of multiple continents, compiled off just the top of my head over two days, came to 114. With research I probably could double that number. I doubt that anyone could write a chapter about each of them, much less come up with all the required photos.

Bill Quimby

You're right, Bill. Based upon the question that opened this discussion, that was the basis for this thread. And a book or volume of books on the greatest international hunters of different continents in place of an international hunters hall of fame would most likely be too great a task, unless it was a multi-volume set or treatise, much like an encylopedia. But which book or books are you referring to that discusses the multiple famous African Big Game hunters under the auspices of one or more books? I would really like to get that book or books if such exists. I do have a number of books on individuals themselves, but I don't recall one book or books that discusses multiple African hunters. Come to think of it, there might be one published by Safari Press with a few individuals, but it doesn't come readily to mind. Seems like one that was published by Peter Capstick? Could you give me any details? Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
I misunderstood what we were discussing, I guess. There are several very good books about the greatest African hunters. I was thinking about the international hunters who deserve recognition. My list of hunters of multiple continents, compiled off just the top of my head over two days, came to 114. With research I probably could double that number. I doubt that anyone could write a chapter about each of them, much less come up with all the required photos.

Bill Quimby

Bill

You can take my name off the list. I prefer to not have the publicity.