OK, I am going on a leopard hound hunt with Karl S and plan to also hunt kudu, gemsbok, mt zebra and springbok...So what would you take as far as a rifle or 2 rifles?

I know a .300 Win Mag would do the job for all...but I was thinking about taking 2 rifles. Maybe one primarily for pg, and one for the leopard. I have acess to virtually all N Am calibers.

I am really leaning toward my .300 Win Encore with 180 gr Win Supreme Accubonds for plainsgame. It shoots great with that load, and I don't mind the single shot at all on PG. I also don't plan on shooting over 200 yards (hopefully much closer) as we are filming and I think farther shots just look bad on video.

Now for the leopard, I do want a bolt action. I have a .300 Win, so in theory, I could take it and nothing else. Do you guys think a 7mm, .270, 30-06 or something like that with a 130-150 gr bullet would be any better for leopard or is it a negligible difference? Also, would you use an Accubond or some other bullet configuration?

Thanks in advance...TH

45-70 guide gun or the mini 14 in .224.

Sorry, couldn't help it. Happy New Year!

I would take the Encore for everything if it is a favorite. I can't imagine having a chance for more than a single shot at a time for leopard. I think the Accubond bullet will be fine for plains game and excellent for leopard. The scope IMHO is more important than the rifle for leopard.

Tim,

I don't know that caliber is all that important. About any good deer caliber would have to be fine for leopard. What I can say is that the 3 leopards I have shot taken with 338 or 375 all died immedaitely. The one I shot with the 375 just settled in the tree and died there. The heavy bullets caused minimal pelt damage and instant death. It seems that often leopards killed with lesser calibers do require a follow up even if it is a short one.

Personally if I tried for a fourth leopard I might give serious consideration to the 375 with the 260 Accubond.

Mark

OK...so what power, etc. scope? I really like magnification for PG - I will want at least a 3x12x42. So with that scope set on 3x, will that be OK for leopard with dogs, or what would be opinions here?

I have a lot of good scopes to choose from in the 2.5x10- 3x9- 3x12- 4x16 ranges and a 1.5x6 with a 30mm tube that is on my .416. I assume that with dogs the shots will be close, but isn't cranking down to 3x OK?

I appreciate the info and look forward to hearing more...

Tim, if I were you, of the choices you mention, I would keep it very simple and take the .300 Win. Mag. bolt rifle. Since you like higher magnification for plains game, you can go with the 2.5-10 or 3-12 scope on top and crank it down for the cat.

If it were me, however, I would go with a .338 Win. Mag. with the 1.5-6 scope on top. I like the power of the .338, and no one really needs more than 6x for shooting up to 300 yards, which is my self-imposed limit.

In any case, if you do use the .300 and the 180 grain Accubond bullet, you will be well-armed for all the game you are after.

One bolt action rifle chambered in a cartridge falling in the power range between the 30-06 and the 375H&H Magnum will do the job nicely. Choice of cartridge within that range is your decision, although I am partial to the 300WM, the 338WM and the 375H&H.

I like the Swift A Frame bullet, and if I had a choice, that is what I would use. The TBBC would be my second choice. There are other good bullets out there, but I am not familiar with them.

I have shot everything on your list, excepting the leopard, with a 375H&H, and if I was going to do it again, adding the leopard, I would probably just use the 375H&H.

Unless, of course, I was looking for an excuse to buy a new gun!

If you are new to hunting,then I would suggest a scoped,bolt action medium bore.If you are not,an open-sighted 458 Lott.

I do want to take 2 rifles no matter what, just to have a backup in case something goes wrong with one or a scope. I always do that and have never needed the backup because of problems, but it feels like good insurance.

On bullets...I shot a bunch of stuff in Zim from buff and hippo to impala with a .375 H&H with Swift A Frames (300gr). They killed everything with no problems, but on the impalas, they literally blew the off-side shoulders off. That would be a mess with a leopard!
I have shot a few elk, a kudu and a good amount of mulies, whitetails, etc. with the .300 WM Accubonds and always had good performance and clean kills without a big mess. That is why I was considering them for the cat and I know they will work on the pg.
Keep it coming...I am enjoying all the info...

Let me throw out one more question for you big bore fans...I have a .416 Rigby set up right now with the 1.5x6 scope and the Winchester Safari ammo with 400 gr Nosler bullets. Would there be an advantage there for the leopard, or just overkill? Would it make a mess, or just go right through with a lot of shock?

The 300WM with 180gr Accubonds along with a 2.5-8 to 3.5-10 scope would be just the ticket.

Tim,

I have to agree with Mark & Mike I like the over powering energy of the 375 & the 338... If you are capable of shooting with both eyes open the 2.5 / 10 is what I like... I also like shooting big bullets 300gr round nose and 250gr out of the 338, and you could shoot a 220 gr out of a 300win mag in a round nose and exit woulds will be no more then 50 cent piece size hole but they sure will thump Mr. Spots...

Mike

Tim: You sound pretty set on two guns, so I'd take the 375 H&H with 260 gr. AccuBonds for all the big stuff like eland-kudu-gemsbok, with a 1.75x6X. Take a 270, 7 Mag, or your 300WM for longer shots on springbok, blesbok, or impala with at least a 2.5x8X. With the fast calibers, a stout bullet won't make too bad an exit, on any smaller animal.

The leopard with dogs is a real quandry as you don't know if it will be bayed in grass at 10 yards, holed in a cave, or laying up in an acacia at 80-100 yards. If you get too close and they see you, they will come which is a little more exciting than you probably want. I thought my 375 H&H was perfect for my hunt with dogs last year.

This is the exit hole from a 260 gr. AccuBond that munched a lot of shoulder bone, and still was acceptable.

you don't need anything but a 30-06. If I were only going after the animals you listed my 30-06 would be the main rifle with a 375 only for backup in case the 30-06 broke. I have never used the 375 on plains game or for leopard only the 30-06.

OK, if you insist I take two, then I would take the 375H&H and the 300WM. With these two cartridges, you have the broadest range of situations covered, and yet both rifles can fill in for the other should one fail.

I still like the Swift A Frame. In contrast to your experience I shot a springbok with the 375 and the exit hole was only slightly larger than the entrance hole. I have seen more damage from a 270win on whitetail. Still, every situation is different!

Personally, i would take both rifles in bolt action. Single shot rifles for big game is an acquired taste, and I haven't acquired it yet. It sounds like you have.

As far as the 416 Rigby is concerned, there is no such thing as "overkill". "Kill" is the end of the continum, and there is nothing beyond it. Anything that gets you there effectively is acceptible. You will pay a premium in weight and recoil with the 416, but if you want to use the gun that's nobody's business but your own.

Something tells me you already have a pretty good idea of what you would like to take. If this is the case, then go with your gut!

I'd be happy with just a .375 H&H with a 2x6x32 for everything. But, if you have to take 2 rifles then bring along the .300 WinMag with a 3x9x40.

Namibiahunter

Blank...I hope to have a photo like that in about 7 1/2 months!

Thanks everyone and keep it coming...

So what is the downside of me taking 2 rifles? Seems like a lot of negative connotation associated with taking 2. I just like having a backup I am accustomed to when on a trip in case something happens to my primary rifle.

I actually hadn't decided what I was going to take, I was leaning toward at least taking 1 .300WM. Now with all this input, I am thinking pretty hard about taking a .300 and a .375H&H. I had some ejection problems with my .375 in Zim and got rid of it, so it is a good excuse to get another. I guess the upside is that the .375 will be perfect for my moose/brown bear hunt in Sept. I was considering taking my .416 for that one, but would really rather take a .375.

thanks again and look forward to hearing more.

I would probably take my 7x64 or a 300mag.
If I was to take a heaver rifle as well, I would take a 9.3x62.
Are you baiting or using Dogs?

I've never been to Africa, but were I going, I would take the .300 and a .375. Your guide will have a stopper, and the your rifles will take care of everything else.

I like the 7mm with 140's for leo and springbok. And a .338, .375, or .416 for kudu, gemsbok, and zebra. I have a VERY deep respect for gemsbok toughness.

I have shot two leopard with the .375 H&H with 300 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claws and no pelt damage to either. I would recommend the .375 without any question. I usually take my .300 WSM along as my second rifle, and would recommend it as a second safari rifle.

I agree with Bryan C. I've shot everything you mentioned (except leopard) with .30-06, 180gr A-Frames or Nosler Partitions and it did just fine. If you want to go "old school" and really want 2 rifles how about a 7X57 and .404 Jeffrey combo.

Tim: Here's another couple of pictures to get you up for your leopard hunt. He was taken in July of 2008 with the .375:

Thanks guys!

EUG- beauty, where did you hunt him?

Tim

Wow, you have been getting some very good advice all the way through the thread. I see lots of 338 WM, lots of 375 H&H, 300 WM, 416 Rigby, 30/06 and more. Certainly all good choices, nothing wrong at all with any of those, they have done the job, and will continue to do so.

You mention taking two rifles, preferably bolt guns, and scopes. Wise, I always go with at least 2 guns, extra scopes, and extra gear to fix something should something break. Also you are on a dog hunt, and things can happen fast and close. While I have hunted leopard with dogs, I was not lucky. In fact I have had a terrible run of bad luck with that spotted devil! I hate Leopard--despise the bastards! I have spent over 70 nights in leopard blinds (I hate blinds) and 16 days chasing the S. o. B. with dogs! Finally in 2005 I nailed my leopard from a blind, and do not intend to hunt them ever again! I have been lucky with elephant, buffalo, lion, bears, and many other critters, but leopard has been a bitch for me.

Now back to the matter at hand. I happen to have about the most perfect rifle for hunting leopard with dogs that one can imagine! Let me explain, while most dog hunts turn out just fine and it is rare to have a problem, they are far more likely to turn into a "fight" than sitting in a blind. While Scott mentioned the 45/70 and mini 14 in jest (I think), he is not far off the track in my opinion. Remember, this could turn into a fight, that's why we do it. A good Marlin in 45/70, fast expanding bullet like the 300 gr Barnes, or 405 Woodleigh will stop the fight pretty fast on a 150 lb cat. The rifle is short, light, fast, and handy! Certainly accurate enough at 75-100 yds if you happen to catch him in the tree or otherwise, and fast enough and handy enough to fight with if you need to. Of course the mini is semi and out as far as going to Africa. I carried a Marlin Guide in 45/70 on my dog hunt in 1998. Back then there was no Barnes or Woodleigh for it, so I carried the 405 Remington at 1850 fps. It expands quickly at that velocity. I don't want this to turn into a debate on 45/70, it could be in 450 Marlin, or even better yet a 50 B&M Alaskan!!!!!

For me, and my opinion only, not for debate or argument, and if JPK is out there lurking in the shadows waiting for me to make a comment on anything I know he will argue something.

Also, I am not trying to sell anything to you, just a concept that has not been talked about here.

I developed a few cartridges in .500 caliber. Not .510---.500, for various duties. One of these cartridges is the 50 B&M Super Short. Nice little cartridge, but the rifle it is based on is the ticket for this work, again, In My Opinion! Winchester M70 WSSM action, 16 inch barrel, weighs 6.25 lbs, Ultimate stock. This little bolt gun is 36.5 inches overall length. So it fits the criteria of short, light (carry all day long) fast on target for close up encounters, and in addition has enough power behind it to stop close range encounters with a 150 lb kitty! The little gun is capable of either a 375 Barnes X or 385 Remington bonded at 2100 fps--which would be my two choices for this job. While I have yet to use the little gun, being tied up with some of the bigger cartridges on my hunts, several of my friends have used it on hogs, deer, even giraffe and other critters, and it is a hammer on these animals. I have one pal that has shot 9 hogs with them from 150 lbs to 250 lbs, from 10 yds to 50 yds and he tells me that none of them took a step after the first shot--not a step! Down for the count. My experiences with .500 have been with the 50 B&M Long--little bigger cartridge in a WSM action with 18 inch barrels. What I have shot with it has been good too. But for this work, I would use the 50 B&M Super Short.

I mentioned the 50 B&M Alaskan above. This would be a bigger hammer for those close range fighting encounters. Housed in either a Marlin Guide or M71 it is a 50 Alaskan squeezed down to .500 caliber. Why? Lot's of great bullets out there in .500 for this work in a lever gun. One of the very best, and for the most part the reason I did the 50 B&M Alaskan, is the 500 gr Hornady at .500 caliber. In the 50 B&M Alaskan you can push this bullet to 2000 fps in a 18 inch barrel--I like 1900-1950 fps myself. I have used this bullet on many animals at this velocity and it hammers them to the ground! The bullets works anywhere from 1400 fps up to 2100 fps perfectly and holds together. This would be another great choice for this sort of possible "fight". Yet still capable of handling any other scenario that would normally come up on a hunt like this. .500 caliber hits things damn hard and with great authority.

Not to offend anyone here, this is my choice for the job at hand, and I know it would absolutely solve any issue that needed to be solved on this hunt. None of the other rifles are cartridges are bad choices-in fact I shot my one and only leopard with a Win M70 in 416 Remington with a 340 gr Woodleigh at 2500 fps--it hammered him to the dirt. I also had to shoot a hippo at 6 yds with the other rifle on that trip a Win M70 458 Lott. Both rifles with 24 inch barrels, very typical rifles that are 44-45 inches long, 10.5 lbs with 1.5X5 Leupold. What I can tell you as a fact is those rifles that are 10.5 lbs and 45 inches long DO NOT handle like a 36 inch rifle with either 16 or 18 inch barrels and weigh in at 6.25-8 lbs!!! This is the reason I developed the entire B&M series of rifles-50 B&M Super Short-50 B&M- 458 B&M-416 B&M and now the 500MDM--all short-fast-handy-light, made for fighting if need be.

For me on this sort of trip, Win M70 50 B&M Super Short--and then any of the other choices for plains game, probably leaning heavy towards a good 338 or anything in that category would be great.

Oh and by the way, Use Enough Gun-wonderful leopard congrats on that--how about that rifle? Looks to me like one of the Win M70 Big Five Series guns???? Just curious-I have two sets of those things, #50 and #97 and missing the 375 from both sets. I might be wrong, I just can't see enough of the rifle.


Thanks
Michael

No doubt what my choice would be, my Model 70 Winchester Custom in .358 STA. My bullet choice would be a 270 grain North Fork loaded to 2850 fps. I used it for plains game and backup to my .416 Rem that I used on Buff. Good shooting.

phurley5

That Winchester M70 in 358 STA you mention, that would not happen to be one of those fine stainless and wood guns from the old Custom shop from around 1999-2000 would it? If so, I have two of those fine pieces, one of which I have used for over 25 head of critters and one of my all time favorite medium bore guns! Another excellent bullet for the 358 is the 250 Hornady at 2850 fps too. I used this on lot's of smaller critters and for those it does great, it expends lots of energy on smaller animals. Larger, well the 270 North Fork or 280 Swift. I also used to carry around some of the 310 gr Woodleighs, both soft and FMJ--just in case I ran into an emergency situation where I needed the penetration of the FMJ. That 358 was fantastic, I had a 250 Hornady at 2850 hitting 1.5 inches high at 100--280 Swift at 2750 hitting 1 inch high at 100--both 310 Woodleighs hitting center at 100---windage perfect on all--pick and choose the bullet for the job at hand!

Michael

Out of what I have I'd take a .338 Win Mag and a 9,3x62 or a .375. The larger plains game will react well to the larger calibers.

If I had to acquire another rifle to go with the smaller one I would first get a .375 so that it would qualify for DG hunting in the future.

Some okes will shoot me for this but here it goes Load 220gr hornady rn interlocks or woodleighs for your 300wm

their is some big outfitters that use hornady rn interlocks on lion and leopard they expand quickly and big

this is only for the leopard if your speed is below 2500f/sec you can use it on the plains game aswell.

i use them in my 308 at 2350 and in my 375 with no problems

Here's one for you.

A few years back I was walking down a dry river bed with my PH, trackers and Game Scout. We had anchored our Buffalo the day before, so were out looking for an Eland / Sable / whatever was on quota! I was carrying my trusty Super Grade Pre-64 70 .300H&H.

We came across a bunch of feeding cow Elephants and we stopped - then we saw a lone cow on the oppsite bank. Her route back to the herd was going to be real close to us - real close if she bolted....We slowly backed-up and whispered a plan in the event she charged.....She didn't, BUT....

Carrying a .300 in Elephant country will never happen again by me! That was too close and as a veteran Elephant hunter I can tell you that I would have been toast if things went wrong -180gr. Partitions wouldn't evenn put a dent in her head if she had come for me! My PH most likely would have anchored her, but what a humbling feeling taking a pea-shooter up against a potentially deadly situation.

My rule adopted from that day on is "nothing smaller than a .375" when traveling in Lion, Elephant and Buffalo country. Take heed.

JW out

I agree with Jeff I carry nothing smaller than a .375H&H with good bullets in DG country you won't catch me with 260gr Accubonds in the pipe if we are in elephant country.

However, where are you going to be hunting leopard? Be aware that you can NOT bring two of the same caliber rifles into South Africa.

375 H&H would be the only rifle I carried

Tim: I hunted him in Zimbabwe, near West Nicholson, with John Hunt of Georgia Safaris.

I believe Tim will be in Namibia and not in ele areas.
I used 260 Accubonds on Zebra/PG last year in Namibia and had great results.
I plan on using same on Mr. Spots this year---I will likely take my 300winmag also for PG

300winmag with 180 trophybonded bearclaws and 375 with 260 Accubonds was my pair last year and will be again this year.

my choice would be a 300WM and a 375H&H. You can't be overgunned, as the game can't be over dead.

Rich
Buffalo Killer

Although ammo could be an issue if you lose yours, I think a .338 RUM is about a perfect plains game gun. Loaded with 225 Gr. TSX or equivalent to about 3100 fps it is a point blank gun out to 400 yards (much flatter than a .375) and has plenty of pop to anchor large p.g. animals. If I was to take another gun for D.G., depending on the menu, I'd go with a .416 Rigby. Just my two cents.

I had that very problem this year, as my luggage was lost for four days. In it was my hunting clothes and ammo. I shot the leopard in my "airplane" clothes with borrowed .375 Federal ammo from my PH. So, yes, having a source for your ammo is very critical, especially in Zimbabwe.

michael458 ------ You hit it right on the nose good buddy. I was lucky enough to find my Winchester .358 STA just in time for my Safari to the Selous. I guess the habit is catching because very shortly after I found the new in box Winchester I found another Custom out of Wyoming that was also stainless with a "Lilja" barrel and georgeous thumbhole stock. My son and I use them for Elk and you couldn't design a better Alaska rifle, even for the Brown Bear. The Winchester has drop dead Red Walnut that I am sure yours also has, plus the Stainless contrasts to make a beautiful piece. As interesting as it sounds the Lilja barrel is 50 too 100 fps faster than the Winchester on all bullets. I did manage to have 13 boxs of North Forks when Mike shut down North Fork, of course now they are back in business in Oregon. The 270 grain North Forks performed to perfection in Africa on plains game. Good luck with your .358's, I know it has to be an eye popper. Good shooting.

phurley

At the time the Custom Shop let these out the little gun shop I used to frequent got their hands on 3 of the 358 STAs. All dark red walnut, and stainless. Good looking guns. I got one, a friend of mine got one, then another fellow got one that did not even load for his, never shot it. Mine has been everywhere, Mozambique, South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe, New Zealand, Alaska, and probably elsewhere I can't remember. Without doubt one of my all time favorites. A couple of years ago the friend of mine sold his to me, along with several other Win M70s. They are fine guns, not sure how many they made of them, but that is one thing that come out the custom shop right. I have retired both of mine, and lately I have been playing with a nice Win M70 in 358 Ultra--about 150 fps or so faster, but not that big of a deal. Love those Winchesters!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Here's one for you.

A few years back I was walking down a dry river bed with my PH, trackers and Game Scout. We had anchored our Buffalo the day before, so were out looking for an Eland / Sable / whatever was on quota! I was carrying my trusty Super Grade Pre-64 70 .300H&H.

We came across a bunch of feeding cow Elephants and we stopped - then we saw a lone cow on the oppsite bank. Her route back to the herd was going to be real close to us - real close if she bolted....We slowly backed-up and whispered a plan in the event she charged.....She didn't, BUT....

Carrying a .300 in Elephant country will never happen again by me! That was too close and as a veteran Elephant hunter I can tell you that I would have been toast if things went wrong -180gr. Partitions wouldn't evenn put a dent in her head if she had come for me! My PH most likely would have anchored her, but what a humbling feeling taking a pea-shooter up against a potentially deadly situation.

My rule adopted from that day on is "nothing smaller than a .375" when traveling in Lion, Elephant and Buffalo country. Take heed.

JW out

Yup