WOW
After several inquiries and PM's. It seems that this guy has really done some very bad things. I just spoke to a gentleman from Texas that just came back from 21 days in ZIM. There were 4 hunters all on Elephant, LIon, Leopard, Sable,etc. Only three took elephantand very small compared to what they were represented. The lion hunter hunted Lion 1 day.No sable permits, no leopard permit or bait to hunt. They could walk there concesion/hunting area in 30 minutes. Wayne appartenly did not have any of the licenses when they arrived so they waited for 5 days, but Wayne tried to get them to hunt anyway and the PH and hunters wouldn't have any of it.Obviously they came back early with no expectations of getting there trophies back and are apparently going to file lawsuit against him.

That made up my mind not to hunt with him!

Kudubull you have a PM.

Anyone know which concession they hunted? Who was the actual operator, was it Wayne? Who did they book with? Helps to have all this information if we are being warned about NOT hunting with someone!

Lots of untrustworthy individuals in the hunting business. It is unfortunate but doesn't surprise me. I have seen some bad things but nothing like this.


On the other hand, it does seem remarkable that 3 elephants could be killed in a concession that could be walked in 30 minutes. I am trying to make sense out of that.

Good luck in suing them from the USA. I'll bet that just wastes more money. Getting a judgement is one thing. Collecting it is another.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

On the other hand, it does seem remarkable that 3 elephants could be killed in a concession that could be walked in 30 minutes. I am trying to make sense out of that.

.

I'm not saying this isn't a bad actor, but on the above comment on the three elephants being shot, on that concession. All elephant are 30 minutes walk from somewhere! I certainly understand what you mean however!

This guy sounds like he needs a real old fasioned Texas ass kicking!

I don't know if it's fate or not, but I have looked at booking with this guy twice. Every time I do, something like this pops up on the forum. I am assured by his attorney in Texas that he's on the up and up (the guy from Texas has hunted with him), but I don't know. His prices are incredible - but as they say, sometimes you get what you pay for!

It was my understandng he lost his PH Lic. For
all dangerous game. He is a bad actor but connected down there.

I'd be a bit afraid of a company in Zim that needed an attorney in TX. I would wonder why.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Good luck in suing them from the USA. I'll bet that just wastes more money. Getting a judgement is one thing. Collecting it is another.

As most outfitters get a lot of business and money through the USA, and many have bank accounts in the USA, plus the US courts willingness to try other countries cases themselves if Americans are involved, I would have thought for a well heeled client getting some satisfaction is not impossible.

Here is some additional info.

The operator was Wayne and the concession was called Milinde or Milande, spelling may be off.

They had to move after arguing with the guy to get to a new hunting area for elephant.

I dont think the issue was as much about the elephant as it was with not having the license and not getting them until after they we there for 5 days. Also not having the sable or leopard permits. As well as paying for a lion hunt and only hunting 1 day.

The ironic thing is the booking agent called them a week before they left and had them upgrade there hunt for I think $2500 more to a better area.

The 4 hunters are pissed as you can imagine!

Malindi Station Lodge

The above may be the place. The hunting blocks around the Lodge are "owned" by various folks with connections to the Government... maybe not on the "list", but questionable. I remember blocks that weren't a square mile.. a checkerboard of confusion.

Who was the booking agent and what do they have to say about it?

JudgeG - that's the area that Wayne Dietressen promotes. I don't know what he does for getting quota or having access to concessions to hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
Malindi Station Lodge

The above may be the place. The hunting blocks around the Lodge are "owned" by various folks with connections to the Government... maybe not on the "list", but questionable. I remember blocks that weren't a square mile.. a checkerboard of confusion.

What clients get if they don't do reasonable checking into what they are buying and choosing to deal with black Zim land stealers.

Since malindi is onoccupied land any American hunting there could not import the tr4ophies without commiting a lacy act violation (importing stolen goods), probably a good idea that the hunt got moved.

If you are hunting on private land in Zimbabwe check with a) the consular section at your embassy. The americans are on the ball, the brits are their usual hopless selves (but compared to the Irish Embassy in pretoria the Zimbabwe passport office is a joy and the brits look like a first world organisation)
b) check with the association.

Both the EU and US prohibit the importation of stolen property. Not sure what Canada or Austraila views on this are.

Ganyana:

I stayed at Malindi Station for two days and figured out what was going on and left. Amazingly, I got my money back!... but that's another story.

On the second day, I was at a nearby ranch when some gov't "official" showed up in a new Land Rover and with big smile, proclaimed that the farm was now his. Trudging down the road were about 20 folks, four or five with AK's, toting all kinds of clothes and pots and pans, sudza, etc.. The family who owned the farm had already left. It was not a fun thing to see. We were pointedly requested to leave. We did. Being there during the active taking of someones life effort, even though they had left, sucked.

Along with the moral and legal wrongs of hunting on confiscated property, it is amazing to see how quickly the new "owners" have screwed up a great asset. Malindi is just across the railroad tracks from Hwange (so plenty of game should wander over), it is a great concept with the old, posh Cape Town to Bulawayo Railroad cars for lodging... all that and all that's left is an illegal place to hunt with little game... a true "Paradise Lost".

These land grabbers seem to have such an incredibly weird mentality it's not true. I was talking to a well known (semi retired) PH and author a few weeks ago and he was telling me how he sold his business interests in Tanzania a few years ago and bought a farm in Zim. His plan was to run a nice easy (mostly PG) hunting operation, build a house and enjoy a nice easy life. A few months after he finished the house the land grabbers arrived and kicked him and his family off and as they were driving away, these bastards killed all his livestock and burned his house down........ and then built themselves shacks to live in. Even putting aside the land grab issues etc, where on earth is the logic of burning everything and then living in shacks.

I am familiar with Malindi Station. It is one of the old railway annex blocks right on the other side of the train tracks from Hwange. I lived at one of the other blocks just across and down for about 6 months at Jonothan Taylor's Elephant Sands lodge.

These are neat little blocks (if I remember correctly they were about 5000 or 6000 acres)as they border the park, but they were never really intended to be big game areas.

I also thought there was a moratorium on lion hunting in this entire region. Ganyana, can you confirm this?

Regards,
John Barth

There is a morotorium on lion hunting in the entire province. But see the topic from a few months ago on the Zimbabwe trophy awards for 2006. How does a guy without a license, shoot a huge (SCI no 2) Lion with a freshy shampooded and blow dried mane? Buys one from one of the ranchers and fills it full of ketamine. ( FYI Ketamine is the drug of choice. Parylyses the leg muscles for many hours but the animal can sit up and look arrouns so doesn't appear to be drugged. Plentiful supply from government hospitals)

Ketamine

Ketamine hydrochloride, or "Special K," is a powerful hallucinogen widely used as an animal tranquilizer by veterinarians. Users sometimes call the high caused by Special K, "K hole," and describe profound hallucinations that include visual distortions and a lost sense of time, sense, and identity.

The high can last from a half-hour to 2 hours. The Drug Enforcement Administration reports that overt effects can last an hour but the drug can still affect the body for up to 24 hours.

Use of Special K can result in profound physical and mental problems including delirium, amnesia, impaired motor function and potentially fatal respiratory problems.

Special K is a powder. The drug is usually snorted, but is sometimes sprinkled on tobacco or marijuana and smoked. Special K is frequently used in combination with other drugs, such as ecstasy, heroin or cocaine.

Liquid Ketamine was developed in the early 1960s as an anesthetic for surgeries, and was used on the battlefields of Vietnam as an anesthetic. Powdered Ketamine emerged as a recreational drug in the 1970s, and was known as "Vitamin K" in the 1980s. It resurfaced in the 1990s rave scene as "Special K."

Malindi is a railway farm and measures 6 kilometres by 6 kilometres.

There is no doubt that any American hunting there would be in violation of the "smart sanctions" in place.

It is amazing in today's information age that people would book with such an "outfitter" when there are a great many reputable people out there.

quote:

Ketamine

I think I know some good use for it catch a poacher feed him with ketamine and put him down infront of some hyenas.

Who was the booking agent?

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Ketamine



Special K is a powder. The drug is usually snorted, but is sometimes sprinkled on tobacco or marijuana and smoked. Special K is frequently used in combination with other drugs, such as ecstasy, heroin or cocaine.

it comes from the Vets office as a liquid in a 10 ml vial, you have to draw it out with a stringe place it on tin foil, hold it over boiling water when it evorapates then you have the powder,

its sold as a liquid most of the time, its cheap, I bought some at the gym for my mom when she was in the final stages of cancer-at my doctors advice-we mixed it with DMSO and used it topically on her toumers for local pain relief it worked great for her-too bad i had to break the law to help my mom, aftershe died we through it away-i have never used it.