PLEASE, IN THE NAME OF INTERNET PEACE, STOP READING
THIS AND JUST GO TO ANOTHER THREAD. THIS ONE WENT
SO FAR AWAY FROM WHERE I HAD HOPED!!!

NOT that I am asking anyone for their personal

financial information by any means, I would like

to know the TYPICAL household income

of those who manage to go on a NON-trophy

bull elephant hunt in ZIMBABWE and also,

those who opt for a TUSKLESS hunt. I don't mean

AVERAGE, as averages can be thown off by

extreme numbers at one end or the other of a

group sample. So the TYPICAL guy, say in

his late 40's through late 50's, who still has

one or two children to put through college, has

how much money, U.S dollars, coming into the

house when he goes off on his hunt: 50K, 70K,

90K, over 100K, over 125K, over 150K, over175K,
over200K, over 250K...

IS THERE ANY SURVEY THAT'S BEEN DONE FLOATING

AROUND THE NET THAT I CAN REFERENCE?

Thanks for all the help on this friends.

I own the required rifles, now I'd like to know

about big the picture of financing a trip.

Very personal questions Jack, I bet you don't get a lot of response for good reason. I love you New York guys just cut through the crap and tell me what I need to know mentality.

I believe that one's personal income to debt ratio is the biggest factor for one deciding such a hunt. I'll share this much with you, I'm 51, still have two children to get through school but I barely have double digit debt and it's short term at that. My business is basically debt free, I pay cash for everything.

I believe someone who works at McDonalds can go on a tuskless cow ele hunt if they really desire to do so, sacrifice something, SAVE YOUR MONEY and get it done. Most American's have so much crap,STUFF, STUFF, AND MORE STUFF that they could have a garage sell and finance an ele hunt.

An all inclusive Tuskless hunt with travel expenses is approximately 12,000 dollars.

Dirklawyer is absolutely correct. It is all a matter of priority. Best example was a specialiast in my Battery many years ago. He dressed in nothing but the finest clothes and drove a Sedan deVille. Meanwhile, his wife looked like an street urchin and his kids rarely had enough to eat. Anybody that wants to, can find a way to hunt elephant. Personally, I've taken a job as night cashier at 7-11 to finance a snow sheep hunt.

Pancho,

I have several e3, e4, e5s like that working for me. Their car is "pimp my ride", they have $250 jeans, and no money to buy food.

I have lived in an apartment every place I have lived in the military for the last 15 years, I own everything in this house, and a ton of nice guns. I drive a 2005 dodge neon, because it get's 28 miles to the gallon. If I could find one for under $10k I would buy a Volkswagon diesel jetta wagon because it would get closer to 40. I make about $50-65k a year, I have moved 9 times in the past 15 years so buying a house doesn't really work for me. I move again in July to florida but only for 18 months.

I have never hunted tuskless, but I have hunted Namibia and I spent $12,000 on that hunt. I have also hunted in Spain, Germany, Turkey, and I hunt every year in my home state of Wyoming if I am not deployed. I am a Alaska resident according to the state of Alaska and the military so I pay non-resident rate to hunt in Wyoming.

If it is important to you, you will do what you have to do to make it work.

I agree with dirklawyer - there's no way I would post my income and other personal information on a public forum. You might consider a poll here on the AR to get an overview. Selecting a choice in an anonymous poll is a lot more secure than an open posting.

quote:

Originally posted by Pancho: Anybody that wants to, can find a way to hunt elephant. Personally, I've taken a job as night cashier at 7-11 to finance a snow sheep hunt.

It's a matter of priorities. I've cut some of my other fun spending and have taken a second job to finance my next hunt - a plains game hunt in Africa.

anything is possible if one is willing to work hard enough and sacrafice.

I'd think if the hunt cost is no more than 20% of a year's salary he should be able to make it happen. If not, then save up and cut your expenses to the bone until it does. That's how most folks I know, me included, have done it.

how ever much it takes

I have several friends that are lifetime fanatical hunters with household incomes in the 7 digit range, no debt, and live modestly, but think a RSA or Namibian plainsgame hunt is too expensive. Go figure. I have other friends that have to pinch and save every penny to hunt and fish, but go on nice hunting and fishing trips worldwide.

I have a very good friend and client who is a highway patrolman. He makes about 50K a year but makes almost that much again working extra jobs. He doesn't spend a lot, so is able to go to Africa every other year or so. The first time, he went for plains game. This year, he did a leopard with hounds and a buff on one long hunt. Next year, he is going with me to hunt a lioness and a bit of plains game. He pays cash for all his hunts.

I have other clients who make a whole lot more but couldn't afford to pull off that leopard and buffalo hunt without going into the hole to their credit card companies.

I guess my point is that if you live within your means, set a savings goal and stick to it, just about anyone can afford to go to Africa at least once.

I shot an elephant bull back in the early '90's and the trophy fee was the equivalent of four months take home pay for this Canadian school teacher. If you want something bad enough ...

Ex-wives (and their attorneys) everywhere are looking forward to the divulging of THIS information.

George

Jack, next time you do a drug bust, just take the baggies of cash home and you will be hunting elephants by the dozen in no time!

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
I would like to know the TYPICAL household

income of those who manage to go on a NON-

trophy bull elephant hunt in ZIM and also,

those who opt for a TUSKLESS hunt. I don't mean

AVERAGE, as averages can be thown off by

extreme numbers at one end or the other of a

group sample. So the TYPICAL guy, say in

his late 40's through late 50's, who still has

one or two children to put through college, has

how much money, U.S dollars, coming into the

house when he goes off on his hunt: 50K, 70K,

90K, over 100K, over 125K, over 150K, over175K,
over200K, over 250K...

Is there any survey that's been done that I can

reference? Thanks for all the help on this friends.

I own the required rifles, now I'd like to know

about big the picture of financing a trip.

I made 400 trillion Zim dollars last month.

quote:

I made 400 trillion Zim dollars last month.

We are definately middle-class, but my wife knows how much hunting means to me and accepts that. We therefore make efforts to budget things accordingly, and I get a big trip every couple years....

I have a 20 year old truck, and a 10 year old work car; she drives an economy car. We live in a modest, but comfortable home and have all our kids out of the house; the kids and grandkids move in and out as their situations require.

I went on a deluxe PG hunt in 2004, helped my kids on theirs in 2005, went again for leopard and PG in 2007. The biggest now will be buffalo and tuskless elephant next year in Zim.

I probably could have skipped all of these and retired early, but then what memories would I have to look back on ?????????????????????

My life time high anual income has never been anything that would indicate the ability to do the hunting I've done! Haveing said that, it isn't the income that matters, as much as it is your priorities. If you want a $25,000 bass boat, almost anyone can have one! If you want to drive a new car every two years,most can, and cars AIN'T cheap to buy and opperate! The same applies to hunting in Africa, if you want to, you will find a way, I did, and my best paying job in all my life was as an aircraft machanic, but the employee flights on my, and other airlines made it more posible!

If there is a will, there is a way! And I agree with most here, this is a very personal question, and one few will answer in detail!

To further Blank's comments regarding his very understanding and sweet wife:
I try to always remember the words my PH told me on my first trip to Africa - "Spend as much on her as you do on hunting and you'll never have a problem getting to go."

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Ex-wives (and their attorneys) everywhere are looking forward to the divulging of THIS information.

George

0

And current wifes also as we have over lots of different wys of hiding money for hunting and guns purposes but since their better halfes and their laywers is reading i wont indulge into that ...

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Ex-wives (and their attorneys) everywhere are looking forward to the divulging of THIS information.

George

Perhaps to say nothing of the internal revenue service!

Jack - you might try posting a poll. That would give respondents the ability to reply anonymously.

I don't think household income is a very good indicator of a typical african hunter.

As most have mentioned above, it mostly comes down to priorities.

Also, within any wage bracket there is MASSIVE discrepencies in disposable income, savings etc. Some people live below their means, others way above. Some may have done well selling a home or two, others lose. Some have access to family money, or inheritances, others don't. Some made some good investments, others may have lost money on investments. Some live in areas where the cost of living is cheap, etc, etc...

Not only that, but how many hunts are we talking about? If one ele hunt per year, its much different than one ele hunt in a lifetime.

IMHO, there are way too many variables involved for household income to be much of an indicator of the affordability of an ele hunt.

Obviously if your gross income is $85,000, you won't be able to afford a $50,000 safari every year. Maybe every 4 or 5 years if its the only only "luxury item" in your life.

That said, if you only make $40,000 a year, you can probably find a way to do a once in a lifetime ele hunt if you save long enough!

Just my $0.02 (which should probably have gone to my bankrupt safari savings acct instead!),

Canuck

I don't think the answer is anybody's business. If you want to go on a hunt, find out what it costs and either save the money or don't go. It's as simple as that.

Not that I want to answer either ... but how could any web forum be considered valuable evidence for divorce attorneys or the IRS when on most topics the vast majority of participants post anonymously, while I get the feeling an inverse percentage posts honestly???

After 20 years of guiding I agree that it'a all about priorities. One of my clients worked as a mechanic for Postal Service jeeps and his main goal was to see how many good hiding places he could find to take naps during work. But when it came to big deer he would scrimp and save and manage to go on a B&C quality hunt every couple years. On the flip side I had some clients who owned several blocks of commercial real estate in Southern CA who flew in to a hunt on their own plane but played the "hard ship" card when it came to buying $8 tags.

Priorities!

Hi Guys,

I really did NOT want any member to state his personal

financial info. I am really sorry that I failed to communicate

what I had hoped, so all please accept my apology. I am

simply wondering for example, if a NON-trophy bull elephant

will cost me 20K including every single cent involved

right down to getting my two ears sent back and some other

sections of hide and my "light" weight tusks etc., what kind

of household income makes that happen? I really was asking

if there is any survey that is out on the internet somewhere

that has collected this info from safari hunters. True, I AM

a New Yorker as far as my upbringing and personality goes,

and I do like to get to the point, but I am not asking you guys

here about your personal numbers, and I say again, I am sorry

for making any/all of you think that, please forgive me my
lack of communication skill.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Jack, next time you do a drug bust, just take the baggies of cash
home and you will be hunting elephants by the dozen in no time!

You're a GENIUS Dan, thanks!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:
I don't think the answer is anybody's business. If you want to go on a hunt, find out what it costs and either save the money or don't go. It's as simple as that.

This pretty much says it all..... Good post.

Yep, what others make and what hunting that allows them to do really has no bearing on what YOU can do. Your own situation is all that is important for you. I never worried about what my fellow hunting companions made/make so they could do the hunts we made together, all I was concerned with was what I had to do so I could do it myself! Comparing my income to theirs as a means of justifying my spending X amount of cash to do a hunt never occurred to me, nor should it to you. Call one of the forum members that have done these hunts and ask them what it really costs for this hunt. Airfare, tips, misc. expenses with everything sent home and taxidermy/tanning of the skin you want. Get a firm grasp on that and then just save the money and go, or don't.

I don't see the relevance of what others earn and what they do.

Either you yourself can do it, or you can't.

Different priorities.

Looking at what others earn and do with it, is just an exercise in envy.

Personally I earn next to nothing but still went cow elephant hunting and will do so again. Maybe PAC bulls too next time. I will find a way one way or another to do it if healthy.

Sort of along the same lines most of the above posters have stated. My Dad taught me, about 60 years ago, to decide what I want to do; then, decide what I am willing to give up in order to accomplish that goal. Done it ever since and it works.

I am in the military anyone can do a search on the internet and see what military folks make.

I didn't feel obliged to post my financial information, as it is public record anyway.

I've seen a guy(s) who earn 75K per year buy a brand new car that
costs OVER 100K, and I, and those around me who saw the same thing
said, "What's with this guy? Doesn't he realize how foolish that
is given the fact that he's got kids to put through college and a
hefty mortgage, etc?"
But the way you all seem to see the point is, 'Hey squeeze the other
stuff, accumulate the money that you need to indulge yourself, (NOT
yourself AND your family, just yourself) in this totally "off the chart-
unnecessary" experience and do it! Work a second job, (which means reduce
further my time with my wife and children) or cut down spending on other
things, (95% of my spending affects the whole family).'
Well, that ain't me. My cars cost less than 25% of a years pay. I was
simply asking, now for the third or forth time, if anyone knows of a
SURVEY THAT'S BEEN DONE ON THE SUBJECT that I can check. Why are so
many of you ignoring the fact that I am NOT asking anyone here for their
own financial information? Let's drop this and try to forget that I ever
brought it up, PLEASE. I like you guys and this place too much to let this
query cause a tiff the size of the Great Wall of China!

To answer your question directly....NO. Let me ask you this...why do you want to know? Somehow I get the impression from your last post that you think folks making these hunts are somehow shorting the wife and kids in order to do them unless they make a quarter mil per year. I can't answer for anyone besides me, but I never did. I put the kids through college, I took them on vacations, helped the kids buy their cars, remodeled the house for my wife, etc. And during all of that I was still putting some money aside for a safari. I did without things for myself to accomplish it.

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
I've seen a guy(s) who earn 75K per year buy a brand new car that
costs OVER 100K, and I, and those around me who saw the same thing
said, "What's with this guy? Doesn't he realize how foolish that
is given the fact that he's got kids to put through college and a
hefty mortgage, etc?"
But the way you all seem to see the point is, 'Hey squeeze the other
stuff, accumulate the money that you need to indulge yourself, (NOT
yourself AND your family, just yourself) in this totally "off the chart-
unnecessary" experience and do it! Work a second job, (which means reduce
further my time with my wife and children) or cut down spending on other
things, (95% of my spending affects the whole family).'
Well, that ain't me. My cars cost less than 25% of a years pay. I was
simply asking, now for the third or forth time, if anyone knows of a
SURVEY THAT'S BEEN DONE ON THE SUBJECT that I can check. Why are so
many of you ignoring the fact that I am NOT asking anyone here for their
own financial information? Let's drop this and try to forget that I ever
brought it up, PLEASE. I like you guys and this place too much to let this
query cause a tiff the size of the Great Wall of China!

B5Jack, you see, you just did what everyone has been saying all along! YOU just cited YOUR priorities! They cited theirs!

Because they are different form someone else doesn't make your's bad, but it doesn't make the other guys priorities less valuable to him! My family doesn't feel I'm disrespecting them by going to Africa to hunt, because they usderstand hunting is not what I do, but what I am! They take vacations to Paris, or Disney world, because that is what they like!

Like new guy suggested, a poll would have been a a more productive method of getting what you want,but I don't think you will find a survey of the type you want, but stanger things have been printed, so maybe!

In any event don't get tiffed by this exchange, nobody else has!

Big Five Jack,

There is no tiff, relax. You might check with SCI. I'll bet they know exactly how much their members that hunt Africa make.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
I made 400 trillion Zim dollars last month.

The currency has been redone.

Live rates at 2008.08.24 22:30:03 UTC

Notice: The Zimbabwe government redenominated the ZWD on August 1, 2008 at a rate of 10,000,000,000 old ZWD to 1 new ZWD. No new currency code has been issued, but the old ZWD currency remains legal tender until December 31, 2008.

1.00 USD = 22.0220 ZWD

United States Dollars Zimbabwe Dollars
1 USD = 22.0220 ZWD 1 ZWD = 0.0454091 USD

I thought it was a fair question...no grilling necessary

Never let money get in the way of your happiness

G'day All,

I've been tossing this question about big $ hunts myself lately and even though I don't think we need to devulge wage earnings, I have trouble deciding on what I should or shouldn't spend on a hunt? Whatever our families needs and want's are I make sure that comes first, but just where that lies in relation to selfish hunting want's (needs) I find hard to ration. I'm sure I could find the funds for a trip to Africa but then I feel guilty and think I'm robbing the family of those funds !!!
Something for each of us to decide I suppose??

Cheers,
Mark.