Shakari's response to Kathi's posting on Canned Lion Shooting prompted me to attempt to define these misdemeanors:

Canned Shooting – I absolutely refuse to give a definition of “Canned Huntingâ€, as such an animal does not exist!: Seeking and shooting an animal in an enclosure wherein he cannot sustain himself for any length of time. Example: Shooting a lion in a 50, 100, 200 or even a 2000 ha or 2 000 000 ha camp that either does not contain enough natural food, or where the lion has not learned to hunt natural game as prey and fend so for himself, must be regarded as “canned shootingâ€. Another example: Shooting a kudu in a Free State grassveld area with so little trees or shrub to browse on that the kudu has to be artificially fed virtually throughout the year.

Put-and-Take (P&T): Where an animal that is old enough to already be regarded as a hunting trophy [even if only in the eyes of inexperienced or biased hunters and Hunting Outfitters] was captured in one area and transported and “very recently†introduced into an area which it does not know the hunter is part of a P&T operation. Note that the “hunter†may have a true ethical hunt by walking on foot in search of stalking and shooting the animal in a proper manner without knowing that the animal was “planted†by the Hunting Outfitter.

Introduced Species Hunting: Where an animal was introduced into and area so long ago that it is very likely to know the area very well and can naturally breed and live there. Example: Hunting an eland that is about 15 years old that was introduced into the hunting area 12 years ago as a young bull with a few cows to re-establish the herd.

Please don't just throw stones, but make suggestions to better define these practices.

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

I meet an RSA Outfitter after Fehova Hunting Fair in Budapest he was also on Hunting Shows in Dortmund and Salzburg. He Ordered by E-Mail before he was flying back to South Africa 19 Trophy Kudus, 11 Waterbucks, 17 Nyalas etc. etc. by an Game Dealer in KZN. He give him exact advice which Game ( Number and Quality ) should he drop on 3 different Farms close to his Living Place to avoid long ways for travelling with clients to different hunting areas.... Somebody call this Hunting in True African Wilderness !

Seloushunter

quote:

Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:
I meet an RSA Outfitter after Fehova Hunting Fair in Budapest he was also on Hunting Shows in Dortmund and Salzburg. He Ordered by E-Mail before he was flying back to South Africa 19 Trophy Kudus, 11 Waterbucks, 17 Nyalas etc. etc. by an Game Dealer in KZN. He give him exact advice which Game ( Number and Quality ) should he drop on 3 different Farms close to his Living Place to avoid long ways for travelling with clients to different hunting areas.... Somebody call this Hunting in True African Wilderness !

Seloushunter

I do not stand for this sort of thing but i think the problem goes wider than this

The hunting market of today is filled with inch hunters and that is what they expect any given property can only produce X amount of trophy animals and top 10 animals is even harder to find. But that is what 70% of hunters want to often i've heard the frace "if its not top ten i dont pay" and this puts presure on any outfitter unfortunately some fall for it and some don't.

Can you see the difference between a 53" and 54" kudubull the only difference is your name gets in a book with one. Ive seen a set of kudu horns measuring 48" and it was a awesome representitive of the species.

what im saying is that we can't complain about something if we create a market for it. there is always someone that will use that opportunity

quote:

Canned Shooting – I absolutely refuse to give a definition of “Canned Huntingâ€, as such an animal does not exist!: Seeking and shooting an animal in an enclosure wherein he cannot sustain himself for any length of time. Example: Shooting a lion in a 50, 100, 200 or even a 2000 ha or 2 000 000 ha camp that either does not contain enough natural food, or where the lion has not learned to hunt natural game as prey and fend so for himself, must be regarded as “canned shootingâ€. Another example: Shooting a kudu in a Free State grassveld area with so little trees or shrub to browse on that the kudu has to be artificially fed virtually throughout the year.

I'll give one absolute definition that I think all will agree on. Shooting an animal still inside a cage, or right after it is released from a cage. Beyond that it can get murky, and one man's put and take or introduced species becomes another's canned hunt

Even very legitimate ranches with sufficient room to sustain the number and species offered must add males to their herds for the same reasons they must periodically cull females. This may occur even on farms where the animals are "reintroduced" and roam pretty freely from ranch to ranch.

On the "worst" of these operations I've hunted (we were not hunting the species involved, but species that went over and under the wire), our ph stated that he would not let anyone hunt the gemsbok that we filmed being unloaded until they had acclimated themselves to the place.

The first couple of days we could approach these gemsbok pretty easily as the drugs they had been given for their trip wore off. Before we left, they were very "avoident" of contact with us. (I bet you would be too after the experience they'd had!) I don't think anyone hunting these animals was going to have an easy time of it. In fact, we had much more success in Namibia stalking really "wild" gemsbok than folks would have had with these based upon their reactions at the end of the week. Kudude

Let's look at 'put and take' in this context: Animals should be purchased to establish a breeding herd, or to introduce new genes, NOT to be shot as they step off the truck. At today's auction prices, buying animals to be hunted (without producing progeny) is unsustainable and it can't be very profitable at all.

So - could we say that any animal shot within a year of it's relocation, represents a P&T practice?

Having said that, what does the poor landowner do when the PH proudly announces that his client just shot a huge Kudu bull, only to find that it's the very same animal he has just paid thousands for?

Like so many things in life, P&T is not cast in concrete - it's in the heart.

Good topic,
I think that part of the definition might include, if supplemental feeding occurs to sustain them throught the dry season. That by definition is not a sustainable population. Can you imagine feeding in GMA's like Selous or Luangwa?

Put and Take.

Ranch owner calls wildlife farm.

"I need a 54" bull delivered tomorrow. My 54" was shot yesterday. I have a client flying in next month and that is what he wants to shoot too.

Canned hunt:

Ranch owner calls wildlife farm.

"I need a 54" bull delivered Friday. Put in the back pen. I have a client flying in the Saturday and he needs to shoot it and be out of here by Monday. It seems his business partner shot a 52" one last season..............