I am stuck here in Harare without my rifle. Headed for sengwa on fri. United refused to check my rifle at pdx to hre via Toronto and Addis. Told.me those airlines wont acceptnguns, only saa. When I insisted they called the cops on me. Had to.leave it near pdx with my mechanic. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Any contacts at ua. Esp star alliance?

What a crummy shame!
Things like this are why I use Gracy Travel.
Hope the rest of your trip goes better.

Russ, The airlines can only check the bags through another airline if they already have a baggage handling agreement in place between the two carriers. Both airlines could be part of the Star Alliance but if they don't have a seperate baggage handling agreement then they can't check the baggage all the way through.

Unless it has something to do with Canada i dont know.
I just checked mine from ALT straight thru to Harare. United and Ethiopan airlines.

Now if the dumb asses at harare handt screwed me over i might have actually gotten to use mine.

Canadian sanctions against Mugabe mean Canada, Zim and guns don't mix. You may have run into a fool behind the United desk, but they managed to do the right thing by not sending the rifle to Toronto.

Dean

We contacted ua regional director and he confirms that saa is the only airline they will transfer anfirearm to. Ironic since saa is no longer a part of the star alliance. Bottom line avoid ua when traveling with guns, avoid cc's that earn United miles. We are stuck going thru jnb it seems.

Good luck. I did not have my rifles for 8 of 10 days last year and know what you are going through. It is not fun.

Last year my hunting partners gun got left in Washington by united but came 2 days later to Bulawayo and was picked up by our outfitter without a hitch.

I just checked both the SAA and Star Alliance web sites. Both indicate that SAA is a member. The baggage and transfer
Relationship stll exists.

There has been quite a bit of noise about United on the travel portion of this site, also I recall Hunting report having something to say about it.

Does not sound good, but better over there hunting with a camp gun than sitting over here in an office...

I am not a united fan, they screw up my rifle baggage evry year, and that is only LAX to northern michigan. they also have rules to which the public is not privy. such as, the number of rifles you are allowed to put in a case.

I hate them, but they have the only flight that makes sense for me to TVC. so, I show up, and then the rifle shows up later that day or the next, and I drive to get it.

united sux.

why would you drive to get them?? they are required by law to deliver them to you. i have seen a chartered helicopter fly into a bush camp in Newfoundland and a chartered fixed wing fly into an African camp to deliver delayed rifles- before i got smart and left my rifle at home and pre-arranged a suitable camp rifle 5-6 safaris ago. they won't like it but that's their problem.

I can drive the hour to get them and get on to hunting, or I can wait for them to show up at some time that or the next day. I'd rather get it over with.

What you just experienced is why I quit taking my guns to Africa. I ask the PH's to provide them and make do.

Gracy Travel! future problem solved!

Like most here If I can't hunt with my rifles, then I'd almost rateher stay home and shoot a black bear.

........................................ .............

Here is the text of a letter I sent to United today.


22700 S Central Point Rd
Canby OR 97013
Tel: 503 263 3787
FAX 1-503-651-9400
Sept 15, 2012
Mr. Hershel Kamen, Sr VP Alliances
Mr. Jeffery Smisek, President and CEO, United Continental Holdings Inc.
Mr. Martin Hand, Sr Vp “Customer Experience”

By facsimile (713) 324 2637. Please make local copies.

Dear Sirs:

In the view of this customer, the “Star Alliance” program is a shambles.

Each year, I travel to Zimbabwe on safari, along with my clients. Normally I fly Delta non-stop ATL to JNB and then connect to HRE. This year I decided to fly UAL from PDX via YYZ and Addis to avoid the pilferage problem at JNB, as well as the need to overnight at JNB. Here is a summary of my “experience” with your airline.

When I made the reservation via your online system, the system took my credit card info and then immediately cancelled the trip as the YYZ-Addis flight was “not available”. I called Ethiopian and they confirmed my reservation and reassured me that the flight had not been cancelled. I then called UAL and after some time the reservation was reinstated.

When I attempted to check in online, per your email invitation, I negotiated all the screens only to be informed, at the very end of the process, that I would have to check in at the airport.

When I got to the airport, the agent stated that I could not check my hunting rifle as “UAL could only transfer a firearm to SAA”. She refused to rebook me via SAA, telling me curtly “contact your travel agent”. When I told her I made the booking with UAL, she told me to call Air Miles and gave me the phone number. I suggested that I leave the rifle with UAL until my return as I had no other option. The agent then called the police who treated me like a terrorist. Meanwhile a supervisor showed up while I was talking to UAL on the phone. The supervisor confirmed that UAL would not check my rifle as “Air Canada would not accept it”. He asked the agent to rebook me but she was unable to do so. The police then made me move away from the check in area. I called Air Miles to see if I could reroute my trip and they took forever and then said they could book my via London. Now I know enough to know that that’s one place you can’t check a firearm through if you are going to Zimbabwe, due to an arms embargo. I waited some more, to the point where I asked them to call me back, as my cell phone battery was running low. They never did.

Meanwhile, time was running out. I called a person whom I know to come to the airport to collect the rifle and I then checked in without it, very reluctantly I may add. My reception by the agent (another one) was exceptionally frosty. Does United prefer to employ aging white women who have forgotten how to smile (and, I suspect, are anti-gun and anti-hunting) to staff the check-in desk at PDX? Eventually, a male employee checked me in but only after trying to send me to Newark. Apparently, somewhere in this process, my reservation had been discarded.

When I got to SFO, I asked AC whether their policy allowed interline transfers of firearms. They affirmed that under the Star Alliance program, it did. I asked the same question of Ethiopian airlines and they also accept firearms as checked baggage. In the meanwhile, I asked my wife to call UAL and she talked to “John” in Houston who reiterated that UAL would not accept a firearm at check-in unless the only other airline involved was SAA. If I wanted it, I would have to air freight it at my expense, he said.

Now when I arrived at YYZ on AC, I had to obtain a hand-written boarding pass to Addis as the agent at PDX was unable to provide me with one. Ethiopian airlines seemed unable to access my reservation as they initially put me in coach, instead of business.

My expensive safari was a disaster as I had to borrow an ancient iron-sighted rifle that jammed. As a result, animals were missed and wounded in which case they died a slow painful death. I never have this problem with my own scoped rifle. I cursed United Airlines every day of the trip.

Returning, my trip was uneventful until I got to YYZ. There, I tried to check in at the kiosk and went through all the screens only to be routed to the counter. The agent tried to charge me $25 for my bag even though the reservation clearly stated that there would be no baggage charges for the first 2 bags. When I showed that to her, she told me to “take it up with United”. After some acrimony, she finally called someone on the phone and waived the charge.

In summary, the whole trip was a disaster. The Star Alliance program is a disaster. I will make sure that every person who frequents the hunting-oriented online forums hears of this experience. They will be flying Delta to South Africa, Namibia, and Zimbabwe. In studying your website, there is no mention of this rule regarding firearms, and while I am not a laywer, it seems to me that you can’t impose new last minute conditions on a contract once you have accepted payment and the customer has forsaken other options.

Regards,

Russ Gould
PS I lodged this complaint online with UAL on Aug 24 and have yet to receive a response.

Great!

It would be interesting to hear their answer.

Don't hold your breath. UAL is a sham. They jacked me out of thousands of airmiles trying to get me to "deal with SAA" instead of honoring their partner. Dulles is a nightmare. Twice their (UAL) agents caused us to miss our flights over arguing about "traveling with 3 guns" (this was on our return), ammo questions that the agent knew nothing about (Not one time have we ever dealt with an American agent: always a foreigner who spoke poor English). I no longer fly with United.

So much for the "fly the friendly skys with United" slogan.

Sorry to hear about your stuff up. Blame Obama and not George Bush for this one. If he is back in it will only get worse. Thanks for the headsup and hope you get some response from United.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

It's not just hunting related travel with UAL and it's Star Alliance. This year I was denied frequent flyer miles for a round trip to Zurich because their partner, Swiss Air, claimed I traveled on non-qualifying "L" class tickets. This was in spite of the fact that I had boarding passes, on Swiss Air stock, showing that the tickets were, in fact, "Y" class.

I've just had my 3rd horrendous "experience" with UAL and have purposed to avoid any future dealings with them. IMO they are unfit and uncaring.

United broke that guy's guitar 3 or so years ago, he wrote songs that went viral on the internet and yet, United still sucks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

heck, he now has a book and new career!

http://www.davecarrollmusic.com/book/



Don't expect any response from your letter. You just bitched, but didn't offer any real suggestions to them nor did you demonstrate a damage and suggest a way for them to make you 'whole' and happy. You just were pissed and told them you are going to tell everybody about it you can. Valid choice, but don't expect much from them since you already led with your ultimatum. The key to a successful complaint is a factual, unemotional description of the event and a suggestion of what they can do to make the situation 'right'.

I would consider filing a suit against then in Small Claims Ct, which if I'm reading the right info on the net can award up to $10,000 in Oregon. It may not make you whole, but it would salve the wounds somewhat and probably get United's attention. I'm not an attourney but it appears to me they broke their contract with you. Even if you lose, the costs to United to have an attorney appear will be substantial and it is entirely possible the SC judge might not like them either.

As a Canadian, I have been informed by Canada Customs that it is illegal for me to import a gun into Zimbabwe. I know that a lot of Canadians sidestep the problem by going to Africa via Europe, but technically it is illegal. Could this have been the reason/excuse for their inability to transfer your rifle? Just wondering.

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:
As a Canadian, I have been informed by Canada Customs that it is illegal for me to import a gun into Zimbabwe. I know that a lot of Canadians sidestep the problem by going to Africa via Europe, but technically it is illegal. Could this have been the reason/excuse for their inability to transfer your rifle? Just wondering.

Australia also has an Arms embargo with Zim BUT does allow sporting rifles in with a Permit and must return.

If I read this correctly, there were 3 airlines involved. United, SAA & Ethiopian. That seems like a recipe for disaster on the best of days.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:
As a Canadian, I have been informed by Canada Customs that it is illegal for me to import a gun into Zimbabwe. I know that a lot of Canadians sidestep the problem by going to Africa via Europe, but technically it is illegal. Could this have been the reason/excuse for their inability to transfer your rifle? Just wondering.

My thoughts exactly, they are a horrible airline, but it appears to me all they were doing in this case was following the law.

I am Platinum Elite on United, but will be the first to say they are horrible. I got all my miles because Guam is a hub for them, I lived there for three years, and traveled extensively for business. I would not recommend anyone flying them, because they are the worst airline I have flown, but at this point I have too many miles not to.

It's still a mystery to me why they refused, other than their repeated reference to their baggage agreement which allows them to transfer firearms to SAA alone. My theory is that their "guideline" was written when all the other options went via the EU, which technically has an embargo on Zim. (And to my knowledge, only the UK enforces it).

I don't think it has anything to do with Canadian Law. International baggage transiting through a country is not subject to that country's prhibitions. I flew AC to Toronto and then Ethiopian to Addis. So Air Canada was not ferrying anything to Zim, and I don't think Ethiopian has to bow to Canada's laws.

Anyway, not one of the 3 UAL executives addressed in my letter has seen the need to respond. You would think that some undersecretary would be given the task to send me at least a form letter. It's been nine days since I faxed that letter, quoted above.
Neither have a received an answer to my online complaint, although I did receive an automated acknowledgement with a reference number. It's been a full month since I lodged that complaint.

Based on this experience, not only would I not fly United, but I would not invest in that company's shares either. They are clearly focused on something other than their customers.

I continue to hope I will be able to make another trip to Africa, and if so, I want my own rifle(s). Early on, I got some very good advice here at AR and used Gracy for my travel. I am simply not qualified and don't wish to become so, to deal with all the potential hassle. I have no idea if using an agent cost me or saved me, does not matter, it worked. I would also consider Steve Turner's http://www.travelwithguns.com/ as he was my agent when he was with Gracy. Of course using an agent is no guarantee against an a$$ at check in, but if you have enough time the agent may be able to sort it out. I am still grateful for AR and the help it provides.

Why on earth didn't you use a travel agent?

There are any number of them that have particular experience booking air travel for hunters taking firearms to African destinations. They do it all the time. They know the rules and plan accordingly.

You could have easily avoided every problem you ran into on this trip.

What Mike said....

I am thankful that I learned from others misfortune...and used and experienced travel agent. The cost is the same. We'll see, but I trust Delta...

On my recent trip to Argentina I DID use a travel agent, one that has been mentioned, and United managed to stuff up my guns. They disappeared in MIAMI and took me hours to locate.

I won't be using United again!
.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:

Anyway, not one of the 3 UAL executives addressed in my letter has seen the need to respond. You would think that some undersecretary would be given the task to send me at least a form letter. It's been nine days since I faxed that letter, quoted above.
Neither have a received an answer to my online complaint, although I did receive an automated acknowledgement with a reference number. It's been a full month since I lodged that complaint.

Why should they?

What do you want them to do?

What do you expect them to do?

As I mentioned before, you bitched and told them you would tell everybody you could they suck.

But, you didn't ask for anything, nor did you ask to be contacted.

You letter was an emotional rant. You made no suggestion on what they could do to make you happy or correct the situation in the future for others.

No wonder they didn't contact you.

while traveling with rifles or shotguns i use a travel agent that specializes in travel for gun owners.

I could fly with united, however i do not when traveling in the US...

Just returned from Zim, yesterday. Outwards bound, we flew out of Corpus Christi, through DFW and, on to Atlanta. To get the guns checked we had to retrieve them in Dallas and recheck them with Delta. However, a checked bag went through fine.

When we went to get them at DFW, a woman at the luggage carousel said we should pick them up at the "oversize luggage" counter. Five minutes later, here she came, rolling the gun cases. They had come bouncing down the regular luggage chute. At that point, we were just damn glad to have them.

Only American and United fly out of Corpus.