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Recently noticed from the SCI ( In the Crosshairs) newsletter the following information which might be of interest to our AR guests Cheers, Peter -------------------- IUCN / SCIF Decision The IUCN Council has decided not to act on SCIF’s application for membership at this time, but has delayed its decision to next May. IUCN is the largest and oldest conservation organization in the world. It has a strong influence on policies and laws affecting wildlife conservation and hunting. It is made up of about 75 countries and nearly 500 non-government conservation organizations. IUCN has adopted a policy of sustainable use of wildlife, which means that hunting is accepted when it is done on a sound conservation basis. | ||
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That was due to a technical issue. I will have to go back and research the problem, but is was not a idealogical or tactical problem. SCI is respected world wide for their contributions to conservation and protecting hunting rights. I'll check into it and report back. Prayer, planning, preperation, perseverence, proper procedure, and positive attitude, positively prevents poor performance. | |||
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That will not be true for long if SCI keeps selling those donated hunts for Zimbabwe from Out of Africa that are conduced on seized private land in violation of the Lacey Act. | |||
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That is NOT the impression I have been getting lately. All they seem to want to do is protect whoever is donating something to them. Regardless of how unethical their way of hunting is. | |||
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I think this Out of Africa is getting blown out of proporation in relation to all the good SCI and the chapters do. It is like saying I got a thorn in my foot in Africa and I don't think I will go back. | |||
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D.O.J., SCI supposedly promotes hunting ethics, yet it is in business with Out of Africa which is widely known to engage in poaching (and has been banned from Zim but sneaks back anyway). And in past years SCI refused to do anything about it, despite objections from both rank and file members as well as board members. Seems like a problem to me. | |||
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No one doubts that SCI has done some good. But, a little poaching here, protecting an unscupulous donor there, and pretty soon you have an organization in deep trouble. Even the vilest criminals have done an occassional good deed. It does not excuse the nefarious conduct. It is time for SCI to clean up its act before it undoes all of the good it was once known for. SCI cannot, must not, be allowed to claim that it did good deeds in the past, therefore stop complaining about its questionable current practices. I have seen enough to insist that they return to there roots before I will support them again. They have a spreading cancer within that must be excised or it will take many good people down with SCI. Bill | |||
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Bill I can assure you that the 'roots' are much dirtier than the 'branches'.  The only way to clean up SCI is to eleiminate the Trophy Records Committee and the Awards Program. You could eliminate the Ethics Committee and then you wouldn't have any pressure to investigate abuses.  What other Hunting Organization even has an Ethics Committee? | |||
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Perhaps you have been away, 500 grains. SCI is not selling any hunts donated by OOAAS at the Reno convention this year. I guess you SCI haters will have to find something else on which to base your hatred. Do you have a "perfect" organization that I can join instead of SCI? THE LUCKIEST HUNTER ALIVE! | |||
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See my previous post. THE LUCKIEST HUNTER ALIVE! | |||
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If SCI is not selling OOA illegal/poaching hunts anymore, then that is an improvement. But why does SCI still run prominent OOA ads and let OOA have booth space at the convention when there are legitimate companies that cannot get booths? And it has taken YEARS of complaints for SCI to begin weaning itself from OOA cash. And as you have probably read, I am not the only one who is dismayed by SCI's cozy relationship with OOA. Certainly you have heard that there is a federal criminal investigation of OOA hunts being conducted. Doesn't that concern you? At all? And you call me an SCI hater. On what do you base that assumption? What really gripes me is the attitude that SCI is the best we have, therefore we should ignore that SCI is in business with known poachers. | |||
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JMO, but based upon your posts. Perhaps this quote will suffice? "What really gripes me is the attitude that SCI is the best we have, therefore we should ignore that SCI is in business with known poachers." You still haven't answered my question as to which "perfect" organization I should belong to to support hunting rights. Perhaps since none that I know of are without flaws, I should not belong to any and should let the anti hunting organizations have their way? THE LUCKIEST HUNTER ALIVE! | |||
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patrkyhntr, If you conclude from the fact that I don't like SCI doing business with poachers that I am an SCI hater, then I suggest you think this through more carefully. Doesn't it bother you that SCI does business with poachers? (If you dispute that OOA poaches, then please refer to the fact that OOA has been deemed a threat to Zimbabwe's national security, the poaching has been so bad. And documentation has been presented to SCI's board.) | |||
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I'm still waiting for your answer to my question, 500 grainer. Which "perfect" organization do you think I should join? A tactic recognized is not an effective tactic. You must have learned debate in lawyer school. First of all, you state that SCI does business with poachers. Perhaps you would have them ban any organization that has such accusations made against it without due process? Perhaps lawyers should be disbarred because they have a complaint lodged against them? The ethics committed of SCI is functioning. Again, perhaps since you have been away, you didn't notice that they have taken action and banned a number of other outfitters? I refer you to page 26 of the October issue of Safari Times. If you don't belong to SCI and don't get the newspaper, I would be happy to scan and email it to you. Perhaps you could point out one post in which you said only positive things about SCI so I won't think ill of you? Well then, maybe one in which most of the post was positive? Until then, my opinion of you stands, and I am still waiting for the name of that "perfect" organization. THE LUCKIEST HUNTER ALIVE! | |||
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500 Grains: I let my SCI membership lapse years ago, but didn't realize the organization was looking the other way and taking poachers' cash. Kind of reminds me of Wayne LaPierre french-kissing Tom DeLay at the NRA convention: both make my stomach turn. But Pat makes a point: Do we abandon the organizations, hold our noses or try to fix them if there are no better alternatives? Tough question. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Maybe the OOA both will be taken over by Ray!  | |||
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My point exactly, Bill. There are things SCI and the NRA do that bother me. Still, they are the best we have going for the defense of the second amendment and hunters' rights. If someone will show me an organization that does these things as well as SCI or the NRA and that orgainzation is perfect in every way, I will join it. The alternative is to let PETA and Handgun Control, Inc. have their way, and they will have their way without organized opposition. There are those of us who are willing to work to change things, and who are putting pressure on in the right places (at least we hope so). THE LUCKIEST HUNTER ALIVE! | |||
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Looks like you just want an argument, not constructive discussion. But I will not go that route. If you want to do something constructive, point out the failings of SCI and suggest how correction can be made. In other words, ask SCI not to do business with poachers.
Due process only applies to the government so you are barking up the wrong tree there. SCI is a private club and can kick members out, deny them advertising space, and deny them booth space. SCI denies booth space and advertising space to other companies that who have done nothing wrong. So why not deny it to OOA? Instead, SCI still gladly accepts advertising dollars from OOA (see page 81 of the October, 2005 issue of Safari Times), and as of now SCI still provides OOA with booth space. And over the past few years while it was publicly known about OOA's illegal hunting in Zimbabwe, SCI auctioned OOA hunts. Last year an SCI board member brought to the board's attention that OOA had been banned from Zim, but the board took no action, auctioned the OOA hunt anyway, and continued to allow OOA to have booth space and advertising. When I inquired in writing to SCI about its relationship with OOA, my inquiry was ignored.
Not very well in OOA's case, leading to public speculation that SCI trades ethics for money.
Sorry, but you can either do your own research or continue to rely on false assumptions. All I ask is for you to quit trying to camouflage SCI's warts. The warts must see the light of day, or they will only get worse. | |||
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"Due process only applies to the government so you are barking up the wrong tree there. SCI is a private club and can kick members out, deny them advertising space, and deny them booth space. SCI denies booth space and advertising space to other companies that who have done nothing wrong. So why not deny it to OOA?" So what you seem to be saying is that proof, actual real proof of wrongdoing, should not be required. Your opinion is sufficient. After all, everyone knows------ For someone who doesn't want an argument you sure are argumentative. I am leaving on a hunting trip tomorrow. I hope you take your meds and are less disgruntled when I get back. I know I will be. THE LUCKIEST HUNTER ALIVE! | |||
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500 gr less disgruntled...never happen in this lifetime. Paturky where you going hunting? I just got back this afternoon from my camp in northern Pa. The bucks are heavy into the rut and plenty of turkeys ( I got one of each  ) | |||
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patrkyhntr, Sometimes the truth hurts. And the truth is that SCI still does business with OOA, and OOA violates the game laws. And it is not my opinion. It is the official position of the government of the nation of Zimbabwe. And they pretty much have final say over whether the Zimbabwe game laws have been violated or not. And I wonder why you are burying your head in the sand saying that nothing has been proven. Have you hunted with OOA? If you become aware that SCI has taken action against OOA, I would be very please to receive that information. | |||
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500 funny but if a handfull of US Dollars greases the correct palm of a Zim. offical it suddenly becomes legal over there and highly supported. Along with permits issued. I ask you is there anyone anywhere that doesn't truly believe the Zim gov't is not corrupt? OOA may or may not be the most trustworthy company in all of Africa. I know not enough about them to judge other than the scrawl on some sites. But I am a member of SCI myself have been on and off for many years. They do have my support just as the president of the USA has my support, surely he's made some less than great choices in his terms but overall I agree with the pres. and his party. Hell I don't agree with my own wife on everything but I remain married. | |||
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I origionally posted that I would research the IUCN / SCIF Decision and it will be forth coming. I contacted Ken Swartz in Washington DC about the OOA issue and he told me that he couldn't comment because the ethics committee has a current investigation underway. I attended the BOD meeting in Tucson in August, and everyone who had a executive title that I met and spoke with wants everthing to be above board and they provided several seminars for us chapter guys, which revolved around doing the right thing so no reproach comes upon SCI. They went out of their way to emphasize the need to be legal and ethical. It may tell out that someone made a bad decision in the past, but, from all that I saw, heard and participated in, SCI wants to be viewed as a credible and honorable organization. And that is the only reason I changed my post signature to be what it is. Those folks work damn hard for our mission, protect hunting, conservation, education and humanitarian services, in that order. I'll be back on the IUCN / SCIF Decision. Prayer, planning, preperation, perseverence, proper procedure, and positive attitude, positively prevents poor performance. | |||
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Mighty Joe, I agree with you 100%! I'm a strong supporter of SCI, they are the biggest supporter for our right to hunt!!  I sure hope they can sort this BS out with OOA and make a statement. "America's Meat - - - SPAM" As always, Good Hunting!!! Widowmaker416 | |||
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Ok, I now have a formal response on the point of the original post regarding the IUCN / SCIF decision for your information and consideration. Things may not always be as they seem on the surface.
Prayer, planning, preperation, perseverence, proper procedure, and positive attitude, positively prevents poor performance. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting SCI - some developments of interest
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