Thoughts on the observer rate charged by outfitters?

I understand the need to charge a fee to cover costs of foods, toiletries, clothes washing, etc.

I guess what I don’t understand is why this fee is $200 or $300 a day or more? I assume to make a profit?

I guess I sit here and think if i bring my son or wife or non-pulling the trigger friend. My daily rate already pays for the PH, truck, and all the costs. There is not added costs for an extra person other than food at least during the day in the field.

wouldn’t it be better to offer a break even type daily rate to entice more people to come in what i think most cases would result in more animals hitting the salt which in turn would mean more $$$$ collected. I know if i bring my son or wife and the PH allows it i will absolutely shoot more animals as i would let them shoot animals I normally would not have shot.

Thoughts?

It will be interesting to see the outfitter responses.
The honest answer I'd really like to hear is the actual cost of each in real dollars?
Simple answer is generally profit but the real question might be the balance between what price drives many people to bring a spouse or family vs not...
One room, one tent, one vehicle, one PH,...more food (not much for children and it costs very little period)
Add children? Two rooms/tent...a meager amount of food...no alcoholic beverages
Airfare is already a nasty cost for 2+ especially 4...
Same with fishing BTW

The only time I've paid an observer daily rate was this past year when my wife went with me to Tanzania. I think about the cost of a nice luxury hotel is about right.

She went out about every other day and sat in camp on the off days being waited on hand and foot. So on those days, the camp staff's routine was totally thrown off. She slept late. They couldn't get laundry first thing. She wanted hot water in the middle of the day, so they had to fire up the donkey boiler. They had to serve her a late breakfast and then lunch in camp. Had to keep a pot of coffee fresh all day. Someone had to take her out on her little game drive in the spare gari for a couple of hours if she got bored in camp.

When she went out with us, if she went on the track or stalk, someone had to keep an eye on her. If she stayed at the gari, someone had to stay with her.

I think they earned every penny of the observer fee.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
The only time I've paid an observer daily rate was this past year when my wife went with me to Tanzania. I think about the cost of a nice luxury hotel is about right.

She went out about every other day and sat in camp on the off days being waited on hand and foot. So on those days, the camp staff's routine was totally thrown off. She slept late. They couldn't get laundry first thing. She wanted hot water in the middle of the day, so they had to fire up the donkey boiler. They had to serve her a late breakfast and then lunch in camp. Had to keep a pot of coffee fresh all day. Someone had to take her out on her little game drive in the spare gari for a couple of hours if she got bored in camp.

When she went out with us, if she went on the track or stalk, someone had to keep an eye on her. If she stayed at the gari, someone had to stay with her.

I think they earned every penny of the observer fee.

Good points. I had not thought much about an observer not coming with me every minute of every single day. If my son or friend were to come along they would be with me every second.

I would agree, they earned the daily rate in your example.

quote:

Originally posted by LittleJoe:
Thoughts on the observer rate charged by outfitters?

I understand the need to charge a fee to cover costs of foods, toiletries, clothes washing, etc.

I guess what I don’t understand is why this fee is $200 or $300 a day or more? I assume to make a profit?

I guess I sit here and think if i bring my son or wife or non-pulling the trigger friend. My daily rate already pays for the PH, truck, and all the costs. There is not added costs for an extra person other than food at least during the day in the field.

wouldn’t it be better to offer a break even type daily rate to entice more people to come in what i think most cases would result in more animals hitting the salt which in turn would mean more $$$$ collected. I know if i bring my son or wife and the PH allows it i will absolutely shoot more animals as i would let them shoot animals I normally would not have shot.

Thoughts?

At the risk of sounding sarcastic (which is NOT my intention) you assume correctly.

Running a hunting business is the same as running any other business in that it needs to make a profit & the 'management' have extremely high running costs in things such as rents/mortgages/leases, vehicles, maintenance, wages, insurance & umpteen other things.............. To say nothing of the absolutely obscene costs of marketing & travel to the conventions etc. (for those who attend the conventions)

I find it so amazing that some people have no concept of running a business!

Do some of you really want everything given to them for free?

I do not like being ripped off, but would certainly pay what I consider is a reasonable price.

The operative word here is “what I consider”.

The bottom line is I see a price, and if I think it reasonable, I accept it.

If it is not, I will look somewhere else.

I more than agree with charging an adult a 200 dollar a day fee and don't understand why anyone would question this.I look at it like the cost for an entire vacation.Why should they get a free vacation? That said I enjoy hunting Africa alone.The company of the PH,camera man, camp staff and whichever hunter there is in camp is more than enough for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I find it so amazing that some people have no concept of running a business!

Do some of you really want everything given to them for free?

I do not like being ripped off, but would certainly pay what I consider is a reasonable price.

The operative word here is “what I consider”.

The bottom line is I see a price, and if I think it reasonable, I accept it.

If it is not, I will look somewhere else.

I think most people agree with this..I've brought friends and told them paying an observer fee is a great deal..they get a trip at an incredible price...I've never blinked either at taking my wife and paying (consider it a great deal too)
What I would be curious about might be how many people would maybe bring children and others that are effected by price? I believe most outfitters would work with a person if they simply had a conversation about it.

Years ago we wanted to hunt plains game in South Africa.

I contacted a number of people, and got an incredible difference between them in price.

Some went as far as they could to complicate things.

For instance, we had some people who might wish to shoot an animal or two, but were going to be observers most of the time.

Some said that the day anyone shoots anything, they pay a hunters daily rate.

The days they shoot nothing, they pay an observers rate.

One professional hunter asked how many animals we would shoot.

I told him 4 of us were hoping to shoot at least an animal a day.

That did it.

He said we could all pay the observer daily rate, hunters and non hunters!

Needless to say, we went with him, had an absolutely great hunt.

Next time we wanted to hunt South Africa, I did not bother ask anyone else.

Went straight to him.

Again, we all had a great hunt.

He was happy, and we certainly were very happy.

His name was PETER HARRIS!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I find it so amazing that some people have no concept of running a business!

Do some of you really want everything given to them for free?

I do not like being ripped off, but would certainly pay what I consider is a reasonable price.

The operative word here is “what I consider”.

The bottom line is I see a price, and if I think it reasonable, I accept it.

If it is not, I will look somewhere else.

I should have written my original post different.

I understand everything every business does is to make a profit or they would not be in business.

What I should have said is why charge a high observer rate when if a minimal rate was charged I think this would result in more people in camp. More people in camp means more animals on the salt, more animals on the salt meaning more profit to the outfitter.

I won’t take my son or daughter if the daily rate is higher than I like. Had they come I know without a shadow of a doubt my truck would shoot significantly more animals. I am happy as my son/daughter is happy and the outfitter is happy as he makes a higher profit.

When I see 200 or 300 a day I do not even consider taking my kids.

quote:

Originally posted by LittleJoe:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I find it so amazing that some people have no concept of running a business!

Do some of you really want everything given to them for free?

I do not like being ripped off, but would certainly pay what I consider is a reasonable price.

The operative word here is “what I consider”.

The bottom line is I see a price, and if I think it reasonable, I accept it.

If it is not, I will look somewhere else.

I should have written my original post different.

I understand everything every business does is to make a profit or they would not be in business.

What I should have said is why charge a high observer rate when if a minimal rate was charged I think this would result in more people in camp. More people in camp means more animals on the salt, more animals on the salt meaning more profit to the outfitter.

I won’t take my son or daughter if the daily rate is higher than I like. Had they come I know without a shadow of a doubt my truck would shoot significantly more animals. I am happy as my son/daughter is happy and the outfitter is happy as he makes a higher profit.

When I see 200 or 300 a day I do not even consider taking my kids.

How can more observers mean more animals hunted??

I thought we are talking about non hunters here??

quote:

Originally posted by LittleJoe:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I find it so amazing that some people have no concept of running a business!

Do some of you really want everything given to them for free?

I do not like being ripped off, but would certainly pay what I consider is a reasonable price.

The operative word here is “what I consider”.

The bottom line is I see a price, and if I think it reasonable, I accept it.

If it is not, I will look somewhere else.

I should have written my original post different.

I understand everything every business does is to make a profit or they would not be in business.

What I should have said is why charge a high observer rate when if a minimal rate was charged I think this would result in more people in camp. More people in camp means more animals on the salt, more animals on the salt meaning more profit to the outfitter.

I won’t take my son or daughter if the daily rate is higher than I like. Had they come I know without a shadow of a doubt my truck would shoot significantly more animals. I am happy as my son/daughter is happy and the outfitter is happy as he makes a higher profit.

When I see 200 or 300 a day I do not even consider taking my kids.

When I took my wife and youngest son to South Africa my son hunted, but my wife didn’t. The outfitter built a water hole beside a tower right in camp for the wife. She sat up there most days reading and drinking wine. She was happy I was happy worth the $180 a day we paid. It cost the outfitter money to do this extra stuff for her,

Folks,

To me and I've written this before that the observer rate is a bargain. The observer particularly if they are keen on the outdoors gets to do everything the hunter does except pull the trigger. Long before Sadie and I got into the commercial end of safari we both agreed that what Sadie paid was a very good deal. And yes sometimes a deal can be struck on the observer(s) dependent on the size of the safari and/or number of shooters. Pre MEA we had a 2nd observer along on a 3 area 35 day hunting/fishing safari in Zambia. The 2nd observer paid $50 a day and that was many years ago. One of my RSA operators will always offer a deal on observers if a family group comes.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Poyntman:
It will be interesting to see the outfitter responses.
The honest answer I'd really like to hear is the actual cost of each in real dollars?
Simple answer is generally profit but the real question might be the balance between what price drives many people to bring a spouse or family vs not...
One room, one tent, one vehicle, one PH,...more food (not much for children and it costs very little period)
Add children? Two rooms/tent...a meager amount of food...no alcoholic beverages
Airfare is already a nasty cost for 2+ especially 4...
Same with fishing BTW

If you want an answer on the actual cost, it only costs the outfitter food and beverage costs. All employees are paid by the month and the camp staff is not increased for another guest in camp. The cost of cleaning is negligible as laundry and cleaning are typically done each day regardless.

You can generally figure food and nonalcoholic beverage costs to be $30 to $35 USD per day in South Africa and Namibia. Maybe a little more in Tanzania and Zim as food is generally a little more expensive. Wine and spirits are generally an add on for most operators so no additional overhead for the outfitter. So the net/net is an observer adds very little to the operational costs and generally adds to the potential tipping revenue so it is a bonus to have more guests in camp.

At the end of the day, the cost for an observer is just another revenue stream for the operator. Merry Christmas.

When we go to the movies they charge both of us.
Why not just charge me & let her in free? It doesn't cost anymore to show the movie does it?
Since she is with me I have to buy more things at he concession stand. Therefore more profit to their bottom line.
Not trying to be a jerk here, it's just my take on things.
If they let my wife in for free or charge for her I still have to spend more $$ at the concession stand.
While we're at it, I'm bald! Why do I have to pay the same price for a haircut as someone with a full head of hair?
Because they're there to make $$$ & as a business man I fully understand it.
I have paid the $300 a day rate for my wife on 3 occasions & never ever thought that it was too high for what we got.
IT'S AFRICA & worth every penny I have spent thus far.

The regulations vary between countries, and sometimes vary due to the type of area hunted, but an observer can often be allowed to shoot a common animal while paying only the observer rate. A child or spouse may initially not want to hunt, but may change their mind before the hunt ends. It is also allowable in some cases for a couple to split the bag, with one paying the hunter rate, and the other paying the observer rate. On a DG hunt, the operator is responsible for the safety of all parties, and may need an extra person along just for the safety of the observer. The amount spent for the observer rate is a mere pittance of the cost of an African safari. Where else can you get lodging, meals, field transportation, education, guide service, daily laundry, and all the incredible experience that is an African safari for that kind of money? Why spoil it all by complaining? It is still the greatest bargain there is in the hunting world.

I think one of the reasons the original question was posed comes from the perspective of hunting mainly or only in South Africa and Namibia, where game populations and densities are high and quotas are flexible. There, it might be reasonable to want lower observer rates where extra animals can be shot and trophy fees paid. However, in most other African countries with fixed quotas, where shooting extra animals may not be possible or at least, limited; it is more difficult to have an expectation of a 'deal' on observer fees.

I'm leaving in a few months for a 12-day, 2 area hunt in Zambia. My significant other will arrive part-way through and spend the last week with me. Observer cost is $300/day. While I think it'd be nice if that cost was lower, I'm fine as I think it's a fair price for what she is going to get to experience. My focus was not on his cost vs price charged; but rather on what I'm getting for the price I'm paying. I decided it's a good value for me, so I added her on. It's still less expensive than a quality photo safari lodge would charge if we were going that route.

Safari operators, like any other business, need to make a profit in order to stay in business. We all should expect that, one way or another, the arrangement needs to be profitable to them and that they in turn will provide a memorable experience to us.

I know this; my girlfriend is going to enjoy a better time than she can imagine and we are going to create memories that'll be cherished far into the future. That's worth a few thousand in extra cost to me.

If you are a repeat customer, the PH won't care which of you (two) is on the rifle and which is in the truck or following along. We go one hunter/one observer and simply trade off who is going after what. My gun stays on the truck when she is "up" and the PH can always tell me to back up, which is never an issue with my wife's shooting!

quote:

What I should have said is why charge a high observer rate when if a minimal rate was charged I think this would result in more people in camp. More people in camp means more animals on the salt, more animals on the salt meaning more profit to the outfitter.

Observers and hunters have distinctly different meanings.

The observers tags along absorbing the scenery, usually taking photos and possibly joining in a stalk.

The fee paid is mainly for the privilege of being in a hunting environment rather than being on a photographic safari where they would likely be paying more per day.


An observer is not entitled to pull the trigger and should the privilege of doing so be extended, it is only by choice of the outfitter and in some cases, by the government official monitoring the hunt to ensure everyone abides by the hunting regs.

A hunt in RSA on private land is a totally different proposition and all kinds of deals can be tailored to meet demands.

BTW, part of the observer fee in TZ is paid to the Game Department.