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Quote: I thought JJ was saying that he observed good results from the 7 Mag. -Bob F. | ||
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The poor mans buffalo is grand sport to hunt. Nice story thanks for sharing. Cheers, Andr� | |||
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Faucett - I was referring to the historical hype regarding the 7mm RemMag, not JJ's report. Certain calibers achieve urban myth status by ignoring the laws of physics. | |||
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I agree with JJ 100%, that has been my experience also... As to the 7x57 being as good as a 7 Mag, or .270 I think it is and I have seen better results with it, probably because it is slower and bullet integrity is maintained at a higher level..I have not noticed the 7 mag to be a better caliber than the 270 nor the 270 to outdo the 7x57 on game, at least that has been my experience...I like the 270 and the 7x57 and they work fine on game. I also have found the 30 calibers to leave better and more consistant blood trails than any of the lessor calibers.. The .308, 30-06 and 300 H&H have proven this to me and I have used, extensively, most of the popular calibers..The 338 is awesome as is the 375 and up... | |||
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JJHack, You continuously have more fun than any one person should be allowed to have.  Your posts are always enjoyable. | |||
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I agree. In Alaska I grew up with a 280, a 7 mag and a 270... after awhile I shot only the 270. I could not see a difference in time of death and penetration of the 3 so I picked the rifle that shot the best for me, which was my 270. Morso than any other cartridge I have found 7mm mag owners insist they are holding the hand of god in terms of power, maybe It was because I lived in a isolated area and *they* grew up with the 7mag. Maybe others with even more experiance can comment. | |||
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Don, I know many of these things seem "fun" but very much like the kudu "rodeo" of a few years ago (as I'm sure you remember). Most are only fun long after the dust settles and everyone is ok! | |||
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I've deliberately never owned a 7mm mag, mostly because it was designed by Remington, but I have heard some of the stories hunters in gunstores tell. I've heard about how "tough" the mule deer because it wouldn't fall over at the shot (through the lower leg at "400 yards", or so he claimed). There was the fellow who chose the 7mm mag as his elk cartridge because it was so seriously more powerful than the '06 and elk need a powerful round. Y'gotta wonder where these types get this kind of idea. Get a ballistic chart, like the ones in the back of reloading manuals, and read the trajectory and energy tables. What makes the 7 Remmy so 'awesome'? I dunno. Frankly, I like cartridges that were designed before Roy infected the country with his silly super rounds . . . a long time before! | |||
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Quote: Zero, Okay. Sorry. I misunderstood your original post. My mistake. I agree completely that certain cartridges achieve urban myth status. -Bob F. | |||
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Quote: I posted last year about a Speer GS (250 gr .358 Norma Mag)that I shot my Kudu with and had the same jacket seperation problems with. Link Even though I killed the Kudu I was surpised by the jacket/core seperation. Never again will I use a Speer GS for anything. | |||
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Jim, What kind of bullets did your hunter use in his .338? John | |||
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I am interested JJ what your history with the 338 RUM and 250gr Noslers or Bear Claws. Atkinson, how about you? | |||
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I could not see any difference betwen the RUM and the plain old 338. Remember though the Bush in the Limpopo province is thick and we don't use the RUM to the design paramaters it was made for. A long shot for us will be 200 yards most of the time. The only real advantage I see with the RUM is distance and then thats an advantage over 300 yards only compared to the 338 win mag. The RUM would need premium bullets IMO to be as good in the bush because the excessive velocities would be far more stressful on the bullets at the closer ranges. Although I am an advocate of Premium bullets for all Africa hunting. The bullets Kieth used in his 338 were factory Federal Premium bullets TBBC's and we did not recover a single one they all exited every animal. As I recall he told me they were 225 grain. | |||
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In the real world, most calibers kill about evenly when the shot is stuck in the right spot..By this I mean the .338 kills as well as the 340 or RUM....The 7x57,284, 270,30-06,7 Mag,280, .308,and all the 300s, when stuck in the heart have about the same effect in every respect... The differences come with trajectory, but even that is miniscule under field conditions where "wiggle", guestamation, wind and hypertension all have a part in the results, I have wiggled or flinched on about as many times as I have flinched off... Same in the timber, if one uses the heavy for caliber bullets for the caliber in use, then most will do a great job of penitration..I have seen a 160 gr. 270 caliber Nosler go through an elk stem to stern, same with a 175 gr. 7mm or 200 gr. 308.... I also believe the same in big bores, a 375 placed properly is as effective as a 500 N.E....As to stopping calibers, a well place 9.3 in the brain is pretty effective and quicker than a 577 in the shoulder.. Like most things the extremes on either end are not the best choice, but the moderate in between choices always work well...An 06 or 338 for plainsgame, deer and elk, a 416, 404, for all dangerous game..These middle of the road calibers seem to work for everyone..and a PH might feel the need for bigger calibers, but again only if he can shoot it and I have seen more than one PH that was overgunned for his ability, they are human you know, and many don't shoot as much as the average client... | |||
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I would like to propose this and get some feedback. I agree whole heartedly with the experience and information that JJ and Atkinson mention about the 338 Win and proper bullets. I am interested in using the 338 RUM and I'm familar with the problems inherit with higher velocities and poor bullet performance. I am interested in using the RUM's larger powder capacity by loading it with 300 Woogleighs and acheiving the capabilties of the larger 375 H&H or surpassing them without purchasing one. Is this practical or just fantasy on my part, wishful thinking so to speak. Wisdom and experience here is greatly appreciated. | |||
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It's unlikely you will achieve what your after as nothing out of the 338 will give the the additional diameter of the 375HH and that is as much of it's benifit as the bullet weight. There is good reason why the 375HH has been around and successful for as long as it has. It just works within the velocity it gets and with the diameter and bullet weights it uses. This is not to say that the 300 grain bullet out of the 338UM will not work, it's just being used outside the design in my opinion. It would be like somebody using 250 grain bullets in a 300 mag to get to the 338 level. These extreme things just never seem to do what the shooter hopes for in my experience. Which is why they sell so many different cartridges and rifles. One big problem comes to mind with barrel twist. I can't even begin to tell you how many guys I know used 7mm mags and went to 175 grain bullets to make them like a "bigger gun" but the twist of the barrel would not stabalize the longer bullets well enough to make the accurate. It's worth a try to use the 300's. It still does not make the 338 legal to use for DG. For a plains game rifle I would just shoot 250 premium bullets and be happy with that. It's hard to beat the 225 and 250 grain bullets in the 338. | |||
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I have used the 300 gr. Woodleigh in my 338 at 2400 FPS and it kills elk, Kudu, Eland very well indeed..I have even shot a couple of Cape Buffalo with it and it did them in pretty well, I would consider it the full equal of the wonderful 9.3x62 and capable of killing every dangerous game with perhaps the exception of elephant and Hippo, under ideal conditions with the first shot placed properly. However that's not always the case so as much as I like the 338 with 300 gr. bullets I would very much rather have my 375 H&H with 300 gr. bullets and prefer the woodleigh 350grs bullets, and better yet my 416 Rem, 404 or 470... Smart money always goes to the fellow that shoots the biggest gun he can handle easily without concern to recoil under any field position, to me thats the 416 or 404...I shoot the 470 and I shoot it well, but as a matter of fact I am deadlier with a 40 caliber rifle.. So my advise to you is buy a 416 or a 375 H&H, to go with your std 338 Win...Nothing is gained by going to the Rem or Wby, nothing at all... | |||
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Gentlemen thank you for the honest opinion. Someone once said, "Things don't get interesting until calibers start with a 4." I think it is good advice. | |||
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Quote: Jim, I couldn't find the post about "marksmanship issues" any chance you could send me the a link? TIA Roi | |||
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Yeah that was a bit of a mistake as it was on another site. Send me an Email and I will post it to you via Email in a word doc. | |||
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I would like to add that if someone doesn't like the standard 2660-2700 fps of most .338 win/250 gr bullet loads they could try the Federal High Energy 250 GR. Partitions at 2800 fps. I just bought a box, haven't tried them yet though. The Federal 225s were accurate in my Ruger .338, so I'm HOPING the 250 HE load is as well. I know the extra 100 fps isn't a big deal on its killing power, but a little extra range is nice, and 2800 fps shouldn't be too fast for close shots either. If this load works it's the only ammo I'll ever buy for my .338 again, unless they discontinue it  | |||
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