Question on this quote;
"Although blunt, our SuperHardCast Hammerhead bullets provide a very useable 200-yard trajectory in the case of our 420-grainer, and 150-yards with our 540-grainer. Also, to the full extent of their range, they are both capable of shooting lengthwise through the heaviest game, while providing rapid incapacitation. Interestingly, both our 45-70 loads generate as big a Taylor Knockout Value at 130-yards as does the 375 Holland & Holland with 300-grain bullets measured at the muzzle"

Do any of you argue with this statement made my Mr. Garrett on his site? I am just curious as to your views. Of course I expect those that are envious of the power of the 45-70 to say all kinds of crap, but on a professional level do you find this data reasonable?
I have not put it to the test myself but would be a great article for the Rifle Mag, or Handloader.

C

Carmelo,
what would be the velocity of the Garrett 45/70 at 130 yards? I presume that this is out of a Marlin Lever Action Rifle?

Yes this would be out of Marlin 1895 GG
I assume the velocity at 130 yds would be in the range of 1600 fps. (that is my own assumption)
C

I did not see the claim on the Garret web site that it could shoot through the heaviest game Lengthwise I guess I missed that bold claim. I don't see why some one from a main stream magazine that is not selling a product does not simply get some ballistic gel and test this stuff.

As I read Garret's site information the 45/70 has a MV of 1650 FPS and the 45/70+p a MV of 1850. So I would think that at 130 yards the bullet would not have enough velocity to allow for deep penetration.

Now a 375H&H could have a MV of 2500 FPS with a 300 grain bullet.

My 450/400 launches a 400 grain bullet at 1950-2150 FPS.
Pluse the 400 grain .408 bullet is longer and penetrates much better than the stubby .458 bullets.

I would like to see gelatin tests also. Although there seem to be plenty of claims that prove what it will do on game.
As usual Chucky, you did not read thoroughly. On Lupos first Safari with the .45-70 according to his account he "took steady aim as he crossed broadside, left to right, and sent a 540gr Hammerhead into his right shoulder knocking him down, almost immediately he was up, turned and faced me with a look that I shall never forget, and launched himself straight at me. Within seconds he covered about 20 yards when he met a second 540gr Hammerhead hitting him below the chin in the neck area and driving him back on his butt and down for the count! We cautiously approached him, heard his death bellows, whereupon I delivered an "insurance" shot at about 15 yards. He truly was a great "Old Dagga Boy" with hard solid 13-inch bosses and a beautiful set of deep curling horns. My first shot broke both shoulders and exited as did my second shot which exited the rear of the bull."
Obviously nothing would have been enough for that nightmare as he was hit hard enough to be knocked down twice and not only that he got up and ran on broken shoulders. Who of us could stand there and fire a follow up shot after that! I only hope I could.This also proves the knockdown power of the cartridge as anything with enogh slam to knock down that beast is plenty.
As to bullet diameter and length Rusty, the hard cast bullets do not expand much and start out bigger than the .400 with softer bullets which would seem to even things out in that area IMHO.

I rest my case

Hey guys,

If both shoulders (humerus??) were broken, how did he charge the shooter?

I checked Garretts web site and the meplat of the 420 gr and 540 gr are only 0.330 and 0.350 diameter.

Thats putting alot of faith in a meplat that is smaller than the 450 gr GS FN and 450 gr North Fork solids.

It is also interesting to note that Garett offers the Speer tungsten core FMJ in their plus P line (35,000 psi), at 1530 fps.

So if any of you guys want to equal the awsome power of a Garrett hammerhead all you have to do is shoot your .458 Winchester magnum. . . at 250 yards.

As a sportsman I have always been more interested in over kill than exploring the least powerful cartridge that can humanely kill a large animal.

Im not anti-45-70, just pro one-shot kills.

Bullets with large flat meplats are readily available in monometal bullets that can be driven to much higher velocities than the Garrett.

The relatively flat meplat of the Garrett may also have something to do with the 45-70's 1-20 twist. Never thought a win mags 1-14 would look fast, but guess it is!!!

Andy

Carmelo,



Check the current and next issue of Rifle. Brian Pierce has two articles on using his Marlin 1895 in Africa loaded with Garrett or Buffalo Bore ammo. The first article covered plains game, one shot kills, one shot doubles, and discriptions of questionable looks from his PH until they had seen its performance on game. The second article is about the buffalo portion of his safari, which I have not seen.



Anyway, thought you all might be interested.



Regards,

Yes read both of them.
C

Post deleted by ChuckWagon

Arent you tired yet ChuckyWagon?

Chucky you still starting trouble????
C'mon you know NO ONE takes you serious.
C

NitroX, I have never seen it but would love to. The most impressive impact I have seen is with Nickudu's 505. I have a 500 A2 that is on par with the 505 and I don't think if I shot it under the chin it would drop it on it's butt.

Mike

First this Buffalo was knocked down and then got up and charged with both shoulders broken, then he gave a death bellow after being dropped like a rock with a shot under the chin that would have broke the spine in order to have dropped him as described...I have shot way too many Buffalo to accept this as fact....

It is a shame that people must resort to such trivial pursuits to prove a point, but those kinds of claims have been the stuff that that has turned many of us off on the 45-70 etc. claims, especially those of us who have used the caliber a good bit.

Does anybody beside me get the feeling that somewhere, a group of brats got kicked out of kindergarten for fighting, and they all came here to continue?

What did we do to deserve them?


Rick.

It looks like I am not the only one who finds Mr. Lupo's account lacks credability. Mr. Garrett would do better promoting his bullets for deer and elk than by stretching the truth all out of proportion to make them something that they are not: dangerous game ammo.

Ray in all seriousness here I am hoping you could elaborate on the experiences you briefly mentioned. I have seen what it will do to the neighbors bison but all I've heard so far about it in Africa is what it has allegedly done. Have you or anyone else had a bad experience or failure? If so that is the kind of story we need to hear about to get this straightened out.
3foxes that is not what happened but I'm hopeing its over with. You can read more at a post I made apologizing for carying a brawl over here.

I think you miss the point. NO ONE wants to read about it any more. No one wants to hear about it. The fact remains that it is virtually impossable for a animal to run with two broken shoulders and you certainly wont sit one on hus rump from a dead charge. No one is intersted in either apolagies or bickering. Which has become even more redundent than talking abut the validity of the 45 what ever as a viable DG gun.