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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Do we really "hunt" in Africa?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Well said and well described..  | |||
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I might add one other thing not exactly touched on here. When I go on a hunt I have not signed up for Selous Scout school, although I have had one as a PH. I like to stalk and don't like to hunt over bait or sit in blinds. That's a lot of walking. Having a guy with a bakkie who drops off coolboxes here and there with food, water, and celebratory beers for a successful hunt in predesignated spots where I might end up in my tracking of game so I don't have to carry everything nor be part of a large hunting party is a godsend. For $300+ USD a day not counting incidentals, why not enjoy the luxury of not having to hump all your gear and food and getting a ride back to camp when you've managed your animal instead of having to pack out a Kudu by yourself? I never have let anyone carry my primary rifle or field gear but having strategically placed food and water caches is a very nice thing as is a radio to a fellow or two with a bakkie if you shoot something large. I could drink out of mud puddles and eat insects and pretend I am Rambo but that isn't really the point of hunting to me. I might add that there is likely more canned hunting in Texas than in Africa. Had a fellow here once drive me right up to 10 feet from an asian water buff that was basically tame because it ate at feeders and nobody ever shot at it being it was too expensive for the axis and fallow hunters that were the main clientele. And, no, I did not shoot it. | |||
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I think you'll find far more CANNED hunts in the Eastern USA, than you will in Texas! A 200 acre farm is a large one back east! That wouldn't even make a good branding trap in Texas!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Andrew Correct! I also agree that it is the best thread in a while. Very often if a thread goes to a next page, I don't read the rest as it often becomes weak, off-topic and not worth looking at. Nice one guys! Johan | |||
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MAC, I live in the Eastern USA and have hunted Texas and the difference is that the deer here can walk off our 200 acre branding trap to the next guys 200 acre branding trap.  "I envy not him that eats better meat than I do; nor him that is richer, or that wears better clothes than I do; I envy him, and him only, that kills bigger deer than I do." Izaak Walton (modified) | |||
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  ............ THE END!....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Like most things in life what you put in is what you will get out. Show an interest, discuss what is happening, ask questions and become a part of the team and i promise you it will not be "point and shoot". An enthusiastic and physically fit hunter is every PH's dream. Often you have to do all the same walking, spot the right animal even if it is pointed out to you and make the shot count. The PH is just there to guide you and help you but the hunt is definitely still all yours. | |||
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If you don't want to "hunt" or know how. You can find someone to accommodate you on any continent on this planet and still kill animals. Yes, it's true, you can buy trophies. If you have any accumulation of trophy heads whatsoever. You will be, by someone, sometime, accused of this. It's ironic the better you get at something the worse some folks feel about you. It's sentiment rooted in jealousy nothing more. Fine. You've got folks who earn trophies and folks who merely buy them. Bottomline, these "buy guys" still help pay the bills. If that's how they want to "hunt", they can. How I want to do it is personal. It's a common theme in the preceding posts, how much you participate is a personal choice. I don't assume my way is better that's just what I want. And I want to be a part of the experience. No one will read my name in the record book but me. If it's right by me, I'm the only person who'll be impressed. When someone makes a broad statement like your client, I automatically know what I can do with any other advise on the subject he offers. Nothing. In my mind he has instantly qualified himself as someone who has nothing real on the subject to contribute. Honestly, if he states "you don't really hunt in Africa", how much is his advice worth on hunting Africa? Zero, zip, notta. Add to that, a lack of any actual experience and his comments are truly just speculation based on nothing. If I hunted solely for what other people thought about me. I'd have stopped years ago. You're not going to impress anybody and no trophy is going to make you an authority. | |||
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Great responses and perspectives from hunters and outfitters both. I will just add one thing to my earlier post by way of clarification. I didn't mean to suggest in my earlier post that I am or anyone else is an expert and doesn't need to learn anything, or that anyone should feel inferior or hesitate to hunt in Africa because he's not a great hunter, tracker, stalker, skinner, etc., or a Camp Perry Nat'l Champ rifleman. None of us would go if those were the criteria. But IMHO, I do think that a hunter needs to try to learn as much as he can about hunting, and the particular kind of hunting he plans to do, before doing it. And we all need to be honest with ourselves and our PHs about our skill levels and desire to participate and learn. Then we'll be in for a better experience. The best PHs are not just good hunters, but they're good teachers, too. Finally, of course, we can read all that has ever been written about hunting, but the best and sometimes only way to learn is by actually doing it. As an example, it's a fair question to ask these days whether anyone qualifies as a true expert at elephant hunting. Outside of just a few of the best men alive right now, all of us, including most PHs, are absolute pikers when compared to the old timers such as Sutherland, Bell, Salmon, Manners et al. So, should all aspiring elephant hunters just hang up their rifles and stay home? Of course not. We all need to learn what we can from reading about it and talking to those who've done it - and ideally the best of them. But then we need to do it in order to learn about it, and not forget that there's a first time for everyone for everything. And we need to be humble and accept that the learning curve is going to be a steep one. I remember how much I had read and been told about how hard it can be to gauge and predict and dope the wind at midday under the equatorial sun, and how careful one has to be under such conditions when hunting elephant, and how huge and intimidating elephant are when you move in and are close to them in their element. But I never really LEARNED about those things until I was actually doing it - until the first time I found myself just inside the edge of a goodly sized elephant herd, just after noon, and felt the wind start swirling and changing direction on us, and saw the elephant raise their trunks, sniff, blow, growl like thunder, look around - some right at us - and then tear off in two directions, while we beat a hasty retreat in another, with rifles at the ready! What did I learn? That I - me, myself - needed to pay VERY close attention to the wind. That I - again, me, myself - needed to know where EVERY elephant was around me. That the ones on our flanks had better not be too close beside us and that NONE AT ALL had better be behind us. And also that, at noon, we should damned well be eating lunch instead of hunting elephant! Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Interesting thread and again one in which there is no one correct answer. Most african hunters are above 50 yrs and thus cannot participate like you would at 20-- blind building, animal recovery, etc. or taking a difficult stalk on an animal, either in hours invested in tracking or getting involved in very difficult terrain. But like some suggested, learn all you can about the animals, get in shape, practice with your rifle and you Ph will get you more involved in the hunt if that is your wish. He might even let you participate in the follow-up of a DG animal, that is also fun, some might even suggest that that is real hunting!!!!Always amazed me how the PH's can orchestrate a hunt for everyones ability and still make them a part of it. Also think the idea of a solo safari in africa in wilderness areas for DG is a pipe dream. Hell, that is the reason lots of PH,s struggle through being an appy, written tests, shooting tests--finals tests, etc to get their license etc. And most of them grew up in africa. Somehow I just don't equate it to white tail deer hunting in the US. Dak | |||
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I have certainly hunted in Africa because I did my research and found the kind of hunt I wanted with the kind of PH that I would be comfortable hunting with. I felt like it was a team effort that brought success (not to be confused with the climatic rifle shot). MR, your comments on being among elephants as they became alert to your presence certainly brings back memories....growls like thunder indeed! I can't wait to go back. _______________________________  | |||
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Even though hunting with an outfitter is often more productive it is a pity the opportunities for self-guided hunting have largely disappeared. The auctioned 'citizen' areas in Zim seem now to have very high prices due to local well connected persons alledgedly funding them through black market deals. South Africa once upon a time had self-hunting. Cameroon still does. | |||
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Hunting in Africa is the same as life. You get out of it what you put into it. Your level of involvement is entirely up to you. Your Ph and crew will accomadate your willingness or lack of to the best of their abilities. The time I have spent on the ground have been invaluable in increasing my ability to hunt and pursue game in any situation. During this same time I have shared camp with those that dwaldled along at pointed the gun where directed and hopefully only there. By helping as much as you can you can engender an camaradarie with your crew that will make your experience more positive both from a human stand point and likely a greater effort towards your hunting goals. I like to eat with the crew, share with them and have a fair grasp of Swahili. It goes a long way. Far beyond the animals, inches and pounds, if you hunt for the experience ie: immerse yourself you will come out on the otherside with things that are much more important than what hangs on the wall. The choice is yours. Jeff | |||
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ALL of RSA is "canned hunting" if a fenced ranch is canned hunting..Texas can't even compare to RSA on that score..I don't know where folks come up with this stuff. Mush of Africa is fenced hunting for one reason or another, to keep game in or to keep poachers out. Same in New Zeeland, and a lot of other places. The whole damn world has fences in one form or another, be it a fence or river or mountain range. The size of the concession is the determining factor to a logical person, or one who has hunted enough to know whats going on... I have hunted my butt off in Africa, I hunt WITH my PH and my tracker, I don't lag along behind and let them do it all. It is what YOU make it.I spot game on many ocassions before they do, I can track as well as many of them and as a matter of fact I have found their tracking skills much over rated for the most part with a few, and I mean a few, really fantastic trackers still around, but most are just boys from town that play the part and get aways with it..They can do that because many hunters don't have tracking skills (their own fault)and the trackers just walk in the direction the animal ran and point at the ground and grin, then stumble on it.. Many of todays PHs are just farm boys and are not particularly good at being a PH, but they too can play the part.. It's kinda like everything else in this world, some excell and some don't.... Welcome to the real world outside the internet. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I have shot 3 of the big 5, a 58" kudu, 41 1/2" oryx bull + a whole lot of other wonderful animals, most of them without a guide. But my toughest hunt was a self guided cow moose hunt in VT, shot on the last morning of a 6 day hunt! It hangs on my wall! | |||
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This is the sort of question which can be likened to that old one "how long is this piece of string". There is no one answer that will meet the opinions of all, and practically any answer would have at least some relevance. Why do we hunt? At the beginning it was to feed ourselves and our families. That is definitely no longer necessary today, except for very few people living in the bush. Ever since then, man has used whatever tools have been available to him to hunt. He might have had to chase his animals on foot, and kill them with his bare hands. That might have developed into clobbering them with stones or clubs. Then spears appeared and they were used. Then arrows came about and they were used. Then firearms of different development have been used ever since. I can apply the same terms to modes of transport too. And having a professional hunter guiding you is no difference either. I don't think many countries actually allow individuals to conduct their own hunting. Even those that do, and the individuals that choose to hunt alone, are not really alone. They have to orgenize porters, cooks, trackers and all the other personnel required for an extended hunt in the wild. Ultimately, one picks the hunt that meets his own requirements. And as long as one is clear of what sort of a "hunt" this might be, he should have no problems enjoying it. Personally, I like to hunt because my family has been hunting for generations. And I was taken on hunts probably as soon as I could walk. Hunting to us was always a social occasion, as we normally hunted in groups. Hunting in Africa today is no difference to me. I hunt with friends to enjoy every aspect of being out in the wild. If we have to rough it up, we do. If we get a chance at an easy hunt, we enjoy that too. That is why I enjoy hunting on farms in South Africa just as I enjoy hunting in the wilds of Zimbabwe or Tanzania. Get as much out of your hunt as you can. Enjoy every aspect of it. You might not be able to do it for much longer. | |||
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My one try there was a failure, but that was as much my fault as anyone's, to my regret. As others have pointed out, the PH must try to accommodate your skills, but I believe the PH must also try to accommodate your desires. In my case, this wasn't so, but that was because I hadn't made my desires known to the PH ahead of time. I prefer to lead my hunt: to select the direction in which the search should go, to spot the game, and to make the stalk alone. One will need the PH's advice, but I want to make the decisions. I am quite inexperienced, and I'm certain the PH sensed this. He tried to lead us far too closely, truly leaving me with the feeling I was just there to pull the trigger. After a heated discussion, he tried to accommodate us the next day, but was frustrated we didn't make kills, even if we did make some stalks. One must bear in mind his income comes in part from kills. If you can admit to yourself and your PH you are a poor hunter, offer him a minimum total trophy fee before the hunt begins, with the understanding you pay even if you go away empty handed. An African hunt will be what you make of it. Be sure your PH knows what you want to make of it. I will next time. | |||
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I make a distinction between "canned hunting" and hunting behind a high fence. I have seen canned hunts done in wide open areas. To me canned hunting is the despicable practice of raising a lion/pheasant/deer/whatever in a cage, turning it out for the sole purpose of it being shot quickly by someone paying for the opportunity. I am not a high fence fan but did hunt Lemco in Zim. It is technically high fenced but is about 600,000 acres. I saw no evidence of the fences impeding the animals we hunted. I have hunted high fence game ranch in Texas for deer - 2500 acres carved up into a couple of 1100 acre pastures. This also had the feeders and the box blinds. I do not call this canned, but it was definitely high fenced and was only a matter of time before we killed a deer. I did this once, it is not for me and I do not encourage people to do it. I do not condemn it out of hand, but it is borderline to me being ethical. I agree with Saeed's comments and Ray's on types of hunting and how it is conducted. I hope to hunt in Europe sooner or later to experience the type of hunting there. | |||
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It's what you make it. | |||
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My PH said there are "shooters" and "hunters" and he knows and can provide the experience each one desires...but much prefers the "hunters" as clients. NRA Life Member | |||
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A hunting experience is what you make of it, whether in Texas, Florida, Alabama, Maine, New York, Colorado, Oregon, or Africa. Get out of that truck and stalk with the PH and the trackers, get your feet wet, your boots dirty, and catch a thorn or three, that's what you are paying for as part of the experience. Whether climbing a mountain in Colorado or bouncing across the Kalahari in Namibia, it's all hunting. Sure, I will question the "real hunting" issues of shooting from a stand over a deer feeder in Texas, then that's more on the order of going to the grocery store than serious hunting, that's how a lot of people fill their larder every year for entire families. However, Africa is what you make of it. I seriously feel sorry for all the hunters who deny themselves the wonderful experience of Africa, especially when I see these self same people spending more money for a Whitetail deer or an Elk than it costs to go to Africa and have a "real hunt." Sadly, they don't understand. The result is that we will continue to have threads like this one. It's only jealousy.  | |||
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Bingo dogcat, you hit the jackpot, lot of good posts on here, beats the heck out of the holier than thou posts we sometimes get on such subjects. Good conversation is an artform and appreciated, you don't have to agree but keep the dignity in the posts and that has been done on this thread...good on ya all... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Do we really "hunt" in Africa?
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