Ladies and Gentlemen,

We were watching one of Mark Sullivan's videos this afternoon, and he said something like "Men who would be men", refering to those who I would presume go hunting with him.

We asked each other what this actually means, but were unable to come up with a reasonable answer, as English a second language to all of us.

Would someone please explain this sentence to us?

Depending on the company you keep and the place you grew up it could be similar to; "Hunt with MS Safari's, where the men are men, the women are men, and the sheep run scared....."

Alan

[ 09-08-2002, 02:21: Message edited by: Ngrumba ]

It just means MS has a better opinion of himself, and his safari antics than most real hunters do! Kind of like Tarzan pounding his chest to say "HERE I AM, LOOK AT ME, IF YOU ARE NOT LIKE ME, YOU ARE INFERIOR!" That's his opinion, not mine!

Hey Mac, that would be cool.

After downing the clients buff, he could bear his chest, start thumping it and give a Tarzan yodell.

Men who would be Men......

Men who allow MS to shoot their buff for them?

I believe he is advocating the misconstrued concept that "real" men hunt and kill for the thrill of killing. Men who would be men are far removed from the "killing" but have found the far greated truth in the "living" as men. Accepting life and the beauty of actions based upon honor and respect and dignity for both the hunter and hunted. There is little honor in allowing an animal to suffer a longer death while approaching to see it struggle to charge just so the "killer" can get a few feet closer before the kill. "MEN" know their skills and their own depth and are every bit as satisfied with a one-shot kill at 100 yards as they are with a kill up close.
Some men spend their entire lives in the field killing and never realize they aren't doing it to kill but are there for the experience and thrill of preparing themselves, and training and practicing and the anticipation of that fraction of time before the kill when the entire world is alive.

Saeed he means men who behave in (his perception, tough, rugged self confident, etc.) of a manly manner. He's definition is quite different from yours & mine. He doesn't have a clue.

[ 09-07-2002, 21:59: Message edited by: Bear Claw ]

Saeed,
It's an ego laden, testosterone inspired "challenge" to the viewer that you must possess a great degree of manliness to be with him. Is it perhaps representative of the homoerotic nature of all of Mr. Sullivans on screen adventures.
He, being the more manly of the pair, will guide you, the more submissive one to adventure. During which he must save you from some great peril, a charging buffalo in this case. The guided has thus been symbolically mounted by Mr. Sullivan with this act, allowing him to display his dominance.
Is there perhaps a questionaire he sends to prospective clients ? " Do you like gladiator movies ? ", " Do you like both clams and oysters ? " and other similar questions.

Saeed, I think everyone reads too much into Mr. Sullivan's remark. All it means is he's an idiot.

Chik,

Fantastic and amusing post! Sounds like the makings of gender based deconstruction of Sullivan and perhaps other PHs. Call some publishers (safari press? ), I think you might have a best seller here!

I can just hear Sullivan: "Hi Billy, sit up here and look through the window of this Landcruiser. So Billy . . . have you ever seen a grown man shoot buffalo naked?"

JohnTheGreek

ROFLMAO: I would have liked to see him pull his John Wayne bull shit in Vietnam!

Frank Martinez,
Another well written and insightful post.

I construe Sullivans meaning as "you may well be quite the man but I can take you to a higher level."

He's using the term 'men' in two senses: the first is genetic and the second is ethical. So he's saying, "Human beings who are men (genetically speaking) who want to fulfill their potential as men (ethically speaking), should do ________." That is the meaning of his statement.

Whether what Sullivan fills in that blank -- i.e., what he recommends as what a man should do to fulfill his ethical potential -- is correct or not is another question.

Most of the responses here have been saying, in effect, that what Sullivan fills in that blank is false, nonsense, or ethically repugnant.

[ 09-08-2002, 03:10: Message edited by: LE270 ]

A legend in his own mind.

Olde English call-to-arms:

"Men, who would be men (of honour), take up your swords....."

from Medieval-Shakespearean-Camelot-Crusades-Robin Hood stuff.

[ 09-08-2002, 04:32: Message edited by: KurtC ]

I suspect Mr. Sullivan's TRUE intent is purely mercenary and intended the remark as a taunt to goad the unsuspecting into laying some money on him. Not far different from the old carnival hucksters who used to impune the manhood of everyone who walked by in an attempt to get them to "impress the little lady" by ringing the gong.

Personally, I've always believed a Real Man has no need to "prove" anything to anyone.

CC and JTG,
You two make quite a comedy team. Maybe a collaborative effort on that book? You might want to approach the PETA Press with the idea rather than Safari Press however. Now how could one expand this idea into a book format? ...

Well, there is Ten Speed Press, which firm published _How to Shit in the Woods (An Environmentally Sound Approach to a Lost Art)_ as well as _Up Shit Creek (A collection of Horrifyingly True Wilderness Toilet Misadventures)_.

Your book might simply be entitled _Men Who Would Be Men with Mark Sullivan_. I envision a soft cover book of about 100 pages, 5" by 8.5" size, handy as a field guide for MS hunters to bone up with in the bush, or on the airliner on the way over. Don't forget the glossary at the end, to include the definition of such terms as "Men", "Gut Shot", and the concepts of game management and animal husbandry such as "Letting them choose the way to die."

Hey, animal husbandry brings us back to the old topic, "Where men are men, where women are men, and where the sheep are scared." Could be volume two in the MS series.

Dagga

That is a great idea! The book

Even better if the pages are not glossy but absorbent and soft with a perforated line near the spine for easy removal in the bush.
A dual purpose book. Great concept.

(this goes well with some of the titles of the books you mentioned)

[ 09-08-2002, 08:11: Message edited by: NitroExpress.com ]

Gentlemen,

I posted this question to get an answer to an English sentence, and what did I get?

I got my answer and a few bonus posts, and while reading them, I forget to watch out for Dogmatix, who was intent in sharing my apple crumble and vanilla ice cream with me, as she has already finished her share in one ginormous gulp!

The results of which was the plate got knocked out of my hands, and it landed upside down on the keyboard.

Needless to say, the keyboard developed a mind of its own, and I had to shut the computer off, because all sorts of things started to happen.

Of course, Walter's presence, shouting "you got a virus! You got a virus!" Did not help either.

What Frank and Pecos said!

Good Hunting,

NitroExpress.com,
That would be an excellent feature to add to the book, to make it useful for something in the hands of MS customers. Butt, I would nix the soft and absorbent paper, as we want men to be men when out in the bush with MS. For those reading the book for entertainment purposes, tougher paper would be better, for legibility and durability purposes.

I agree with Dagga Ron. Use John Wayne toilet paper.(It's rough, it's tough, and it don't take no shit off anybody!)

Martinez, CritrChik and not at least Pecos (amongst others) have given some good insights into this semantic problem. Let me just emphasize that MS talks about a potentiality, not an actuality. So he means that you might look like a man, walk like a man, shoot like a man and pee like a man, but you are not a man until he has taken your virginity after his own fashion.

LE270 seems to think that this is a matter of ethics, and in a sense it guess it is. But I presume that it is even more a matter of getting screwed, in various senses of the word.

I think Walter (and Saeed) have answered their own question.

If you could hunt with "Walter's safari team" (see the other thread) I believe that is a safari for "Men who would be Men".

[ 09-09-2002, 17:05: Message edited by: NitroExpress.com ]

I just thought he had hired Mel Brooks or the Monty Python crew to write his ad copy. To paraphrase; "that buff's dead. No it isn't Yes it is. No it isn't", etc. You mean this isn't a comedy routine? How disappointing. - Dan

I'm thinking a Monty Python style musical number would be perfect for Mr. Sullivans next video. Remember the Lumberjack Song ? Hmmmmmm......

Opening for "Charging Black Death Pt. IX"

I'm a questionable PH, and I'm okay.
I sleep all night and I hunt all day.

I shoot big buff. I eat my lunch.
I go behind the kopje.

On Wednesdays I go shoppin'
And have buttered scones for tee

I shoot big buff. I skip and jump.
I like to press wild flowers.

I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars

I shoot big buff. I wear high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra.

I wish I'd been a girlie,
Just like my dear Papa.

CritrChic,
I should have learned by now to expect this om AR, but I did laugh so much I sprayed my coffe all over the key-board.

[ 09-12-2002, 06:59: Message edited by: Marterius ]

Sorry, dubble post.

[ 09-12-2002, 06:57: Message edited by: Marterius ]

Marterius,

I just noticed your quote from Kipling -- I am a big fan of his writing, but have never come across that. Where is it from?

Todd

You could try asking the Kipling Society. They have great web site. I am a BIG fan too.