We are looking at buying a new digital camcorder for our safari to Namibia this June/July and to use for filming future hunts both in Africa and here in the states. We are looking for a professional or semi-professional camera, preferably with High Definition. Canon makes some nice ones, but I wanted to see if anybody here on AR has any suggestions. We want to try and stay under $3,000. I'd really appreciate any help y'all might be able to provide.

Let's see, mine is a JVC and it records directly to the hard drive. No tapes to mess with. I think it's a 30 Gigabyte. It's small and very comfortable to use, to carry and to store. I have had the camcorders that take the tapes before (three of them) and I prefer this one to all of them. I think you can get this one at Costco for less than 1K.

Dear Eland,

I recommend that you look at a post recently by Saeed in which he commented on the time required to render some High Def material he'd taken. (I hope he will respond to your inquiry.) But he said that 10 or so minutes of it had taken several hours to render.

I am looking forward to responses generally to your topical and timely question. Kudude

ES:

I have a bit of experience in the area.

Sony makes a small palmcorder that is a 1/3 chip HDV. Originally, they came out with the HC1, then replaced it with the lower priced HC3. The 1 has more features than the 3, but that may not be significant to you. The picture is very nice, and it also has a night shot feature that is really nice with and infrared attachment.

Stepping up to a larger unit, there a couple of more professional Sony and Canon models that have the 1/3 inch chip in the low $2000 range, but I have not worked with them so not much input. The Sony HDR FX1 was the first 1 inch chip HDV camera they came out with in 2004, and prices have dropped to right at $3000 for it. It is a great unit, but the lens is only 12x, which is a drawback, but not a major one.

If you go just a bit over budget, the best value in the HDV market is the Canon XH-A1. It is around $3400, but has lots of pro features and a 20x lens (it's similar to the old Canon GL2) For the money, it is the best model available.

Attached is a link to B&H, a very reputable, big volume dealer in NY. Some have better pricing, but like I said, these guys are reputable. So it's a start. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=searc...bmit.x=18&Submit.y=4

Hope it helps.

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the info. I think we would like one with an attachment piece for resting on your shoulder (for running around in the bush and staying relatively steady during rifle shots without a tripod). Do you know if the Canon XH-A1 has this available as an accessory? What are your thoughts on this? We are pretty new to the hunt filming business.

ES:

While there is no accessory per se, there are a number of third party products that would serve your purpose. They go by the name of shoulder pod or steady stix...a google search will probably reveal a wealth of options.

With that said, and depending on the type of hunting you are doing, we try our best to shoot everything off of a tripod. While this is optimal and almost always yields the best results, it is often not practical. The next best option for us is a monopod. It provides a good deal of vertical stability, and is very fast in the bush. Often, the shooter will stick the base of the monopod in his belt to provide a third point of contact, but your shoulder attachment will be doing virtually the same thing. It really boils down to what you are comfortable with, but at the end of the day, the more stability you can provide, the happier you will be with the result.

Canon xm2,

Is also a super smallish professinal camera 20X optical zoom and a very long battery runtime if you buy the big 920 batteries. Recording time of 5 hours + sometimes that is with the small digital screen open the whole time.

The sound is also great and most people are surprized at the good sound quality captured for a camera that size. From my experience with the bigger XL cameras it seems that the XM2 doesn't complain as much when it comes to cleaning. It is small enough to carry all day but the only drawback being that it is so small that you cannot put it on your shoulder meaning that for real steady shots when zoomed you need steady hands or you could use a monopod.

Othersie if you want to use for personal good quality movies it would work super.

Anybody know of an extendable monopod that pivots or bends at the top (where the camera is attached)? We've used our Stoney Point monopod before and it works fine for use on the ground but you can't shorten it and put it on your belt, which I believe would be much better for hunting situations.

The Gitzo Mountaineer Carbon Fiber line is an excellent pro series of monopods. Choose a model that suits the weight of the video camera you choose.

Gitzo @ BH Photo

www.gitzo.com

I have a manfrotto monopod model 479B
and on top of it a pivot model no. 234RC also manfrotto
It only pivots in one direction up and down. But when placing the monopod on the ground skew you can at least pivot it so the camera can view perfect horisontal.

I'll second Steve's recommendation for the new Canon model. I think you will stay closer to your budget and be happier in the long run if you take a look at the Canon XH-A1. It's a sweet camera for the money and will soon be in my stable as a backup to my daily rig and to add HD capabilities.

For shoulder mounted shooting of these smaller cameras, consider the Anton Bauer STASIS system:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Searc...dedTroughType=search
I used one when I was shooting a Sony PD170 a couple of years ago and loved it. They are a bit pricey, but good video gear always is. I've tried just about every other product on the market and NOTHING comes close to steadying a shot like the STASIS. It doesn't weigh much and folds when not in use but quickly deploys when needed. I've wished many times that I hadn't sold mine when I sold the camera.

One other thing. Unless you have an avenue to sell your footage in the bag, consider lowering your costs and shooting SD. HD video is gaining in popularity, but the bottom line is most folks don't have the special editing equipment needed to play with it. HD equipment is expensive and the costs of shooting it don't end with your camera purchase. For MOST folks, SD will still be the media of choice for many, many years to come.

Tyge and Steve,

What do y'all think about the Canon GL2? Most of the ones I've found on the internet are between $1,999-$2,799. But, I found it here for $899. That is for the camera by itself but for a few hundred more, you can get a package with it. Does this sound too good to be true? Have any of you bought things from this website?

quote:

Unless you have an avenue to sell your footage in the bag, consider lowering your costs and shooting SD.

Does this mean that to have marketable footage one needs HD or is SD still sufficient?

ES,

I believe that is a gray-market camera. Maybe someone in the business can explain just exactly what that means. I used to know, but can't recall the practical difference now.

Gray market don't have a USA warranty. The owner's manual is probably written in chinese.

quote:

Does this sound too good to be true?

Yep. No reputable Canon dealer is going to sell a GL2 for $899. Believe me when I say you are asking for trouble when buying from these bargain houses (90% of which have a New York address) B & H Photo is the ONLY outfit I deal with. Case in point:
http://www.epinions.com/content_66292977284

Express Camera
http://www.epinions.com/webs-Web_Services-All-Merchants-Express_Camera

You wouldn't even think about booking a 14 day cape buffalo safari in Zim with someone advertising it at $2500 would you? Nor should you fall for the bait/switch and gray market items these online bargain houses advertise.

Stick with the well known and proven online retailers and you can't go wrong.

As far as HD vs. SD question, there is no right or wrong answer. Commercial/TV production is moving there no doubt. Most shows are still shot on SD rigs. For the time being, SD is still the best selling format. Most folks who want to shoot their own safaris/hunts will be best served with SD footage. However, to have the widest range and most options for selling footage, HD has advantages since HD footage can be down converted to SD. (Selling footage is not as easy as some may think. Amateur shooters seldom have the skill level, variety of interesting shots, quality audio and complete story line that commercial producers seek when in the market for footage.)

Here's another reputable internet camera seller.
Norman Camera

They are an authorized Canon Dealer plus they also have two actual stores.

Start thinking about editing software and any additional hardware you need for your computer right now. That needs to be part of your budget

On our last year's hunt, we used the Canon XL H1 Hi Def camcorder. The quality is absolutely stunning when viewd on a hi def monitor, and the camer was a joy to use. I think we paid about $9,000 for it.

I have tried the Sony HC3, which was the smallest HD camera at the time we got it. Its quality is very good, but it does not have the manual controls the Canon has for field work.

I have also been trying the latest Sony HDR-SR1 AVCHD

This one captures hi def footage onto a hard disk in a new format they call AVCHD. Apparently this is a Sony and Panasonic invention.

The quality is superb when played back on a hi def screen - we use a Panasonic 65 inch plasma.

The only problem so far there is no software available to edit this format. Sony supplies a rudementary software to view the footage on a computer, and one can use it to delete certain parts of a clip, but that is about it.

I think soon we mioght have the required software from one of the big software house, as Adobe, Canopus, Ulead etc. have signed on to produce software for it.

THis camera has a 30GB hard disk, and at the highest quality, one can have just over 4 hours of video.

I have been using this camera exclusively for the past month or so, and love it.

Saeed,

I was looking at the Sony hard drive camera and was wondering.

When hooked up via usb does your computer view the camera harddrive like any other usb harddrive?

If so it should be a snap to copy it's contents directly to hard disk. Or are you transferring the files another way?

To weigh in on the HD/SD question, it really depends on what you want to do with the footage. For personal use/memories of the hunt usage, SD format is fine, and the Canon GL2 has been the most commonly used camcorder in outdoor television, and is an excellent choice. (regarding the link; it likely is gray market as Wendell suggested, as a North America unit will sell somewhat under $2000)

HD camcorders, even the less expensive ones, will give an expceptional quality picture, and if there is a question about compatibility, you can record to either HD or SD, or downconvert the HD to SD; either way, playback is assured.

Saeed, regarding the SR1. Can you not digitize the footage from the disc to your hard drive, then manipulate it in your normal editing system? If it has 4 hours of HD capacity, it looks like it could have some very nice applications as a remote cam.

Steve

Yeah, I think we will go ahead and rule out HD for this one. The GL-2 looks like a great camera for what we want to do. We're not going to be selling any footage. We are just going to film our hunt for personal use. We already have a Casablanca Kron editing system, which we have had for several years. Now I have another question. If we bought the Canon GL-2, what extra equipment do you think would be neccessary to buy in order to successfully film our safari? I was thinking probably the STASIS system that Tyge suggested, but what else? I really appreciate all the great info.

If you insist on using the gl2 you need to upgrade the audio. I suggest the sennheiser me66 shotgun microphone and the sennheiser wireless microphone. It comes with a microphone that the hunter wears and also a reciever that mounts to the camera. However to use both you must get an adapter either from Canon called MA-300 or another made by beachtec. They provide phantom power and XLR hookups for the microphone. You will find the on camera microphone will not be satisfactory.

Or you could just buy a Sony PD-170. It has above hookups for the listed microphones. Prices are about the same. We use the PD-170 and have been very pleased with them.

Add a good carbon fiber tripod with a fluid head and a lens controller and you will be set.

Gentlemen,

When you hook up the Sony to the computer it does look like another hard disk to the operating system, and one can copy files both ways.

The trouble is that the AVCHD format of this camera is not comnpatible with any current editing software like Adobe Premier, Avid or Canopus.

Sony does supply a very simple editor - which is only really good for deleting part of a scene. And there is no way one can output it to any HD format like Blu-Ray or HD-DVD yet.

You can connect the camera to a hi def monitor through an HDMI connection, and the footage viewd this way is absolutely fantastic.

I am also interested in possibly upgrading my video camera gear. I am currently using a Sony DCR-vx2000 and it has worked for me in alaska, the arctic, and a couple times in africa. It is a bit bulky (3.5# +/-) so I am looking at size as well as HD issues. I have had it since 1998. The important thing I see is that I need easy access to manual focus for the inevitable brushy shots. (Going to Cameroon next.) It appears that the smaller cameras may be out on this issue. I am just starting to look around so any advice from the experienced members here would be appreciated. Thanks to Eland Slayer for this thread.

Hi Saeed,
I was looking at the Sony SR1 on their website. A couple of questions come to mind and you probably have the experience to help out. If you take this camera on a three week hunting trip can you edit the video and basically make up a movie as you go and what happens when the hard drive is full. I took five full tapes on my recent trip which of course can be renedered down to two maybe two and a half hours of actual video once it's edited. So with the editing program that Sony provides after five hours of actual video would you be able to have it reduced to the actual two hours of good video and still have the three hours available. I know this is sort of a short question made long but it is an important consideration. Thanks for your help
Take good care,
Dave

I am surprised there has only been one mention of the Sony DCR-vx2000. I used to have a VX 2000 and thought it was a very good camera.

For a novice cameraman, this camera (in my un-professional opinion) is a great deal.

What do the experts think of this camera, compared to the other models available, for the casual cameraman who would like to take very good video, but does not plan on selling it or producing a tv show.

Also, can footage off this camera be sufficient to film for TV?

I like the camera. It is very similar to the Sony PD-170 that I use. It is similar to the Canon Gl-2 in it's performance. I am not sure they make that camera any longer but I could be wrong. I think now they maxe the VX-2100. Similar model.

I can't use this model camera because of the poor onboard microphone and the difficulty of attaching pro shotgun and wireless mics. It has no onboard XLR audio hookups and no phantom power.

That being said it is a great camera for the consumer and the guy just wanting to get great video of his hunt. And yes the video quality would be sufficient for TV. Audio quality would not.

The VX2000/2100 is a great camera and has a big following. The fact that it lacks XLR inputs (for shotgun & wireless mics), has only a 12x optical zoom lens hinders it a bit but it's still a great camera for the money.

Before I spent $2200 on one though, I would spend a little over $2900 on it's big brother, the PD170 kit here:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=1881&...e=categoryNavigation

You would then come away with much better audio, a wide angle adapter lens AND a great wireless mic setup. If the PD170 had a 16x or 20x lens instead of the 12x lens it would be the most popular rig under $3k on the market. It kicks the GL2's butt in low light, has a much better set of manual controls and manages white balance much better. Not to mention that they are also not white in color, which is just about the dumbest color a camera CAN be. (Canon Gl2/XL2)

There are dozens of TV shows that shoot their footage on the VX2000/2100 and PD170's. They capture some super quality video for the money.

If you can live without the reach of a 20x lens, buy the PD170 kit above and you'll love it. For video of dangerous game and plains game shot within 100yds or so, you'll never notice it is short in the zoom department.

quote:

Originally posted by 470 Mbogo:
Hi Saeed,
I was looking at the Sony SR1 on their website. A couple of questions come to mind and you probably have the experience to help out. If you take this camera on a three week hunting trip can you edit the video and basically make up a movie as you go and what happens when the hard drive is full. I took five full tapes on my recent trip which of course can be renedered down to two maybe two and a half hours of actual video once it's edited. So with the editing program that Sony provides after five hours of actual video would you be able to have it reduced to the actual two hours of good video and still have the three hours available. I know this is sort of a short question made long but it is an important consideration. Thanks for your help
Take good care,
Dave

The short answer is yes, but with some qualifications.

For the highest quality, you get about 4 hours of HD video. My recommendations for anyone taking this or any hard disk camera is to take either a laptop to back up your footage, or take one of those external storage devices - actually just an external hard disk - than can be used as a USB host to down load and backup the footage.

But, the main problem I see with hi def cameras that use this format - AVCHD - is that there is no way one can output the final edited footage to either Blu Ray or HD-DVD.

One can use the supplied software to output it to standard def onto a DVD, but I found the conversion causes quite a lot of quality degredation.