Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply |
One of Us |
Kim, I wish you would post more often. If all this is feasible then what would you suggest and who would you approach to help out? The only US based scientist/researcher that I could suggest from Zambia would be Dr. Paula White. We would need enthusiastic chaps like Russ Gould. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
|
One of Us |
Could that organisation KPete suggested not be built around Conservation Force? A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
|
One of Us |
Again...an absolutely correct statement! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
One of Us |
In my experience Washington responds to two things, money and numbers, in that order. The NRA has both. Is the success of groups like PETA, HSUS and others like them a function of their scientific and conservationist credentials or the fact that they are well bank rolled and are able to enlist the support of an active and vocal group of constituents when necessary? I suspect it is the latter. Sorry but in my view a group of scientists and researchers with a $2 million budget is a fart in whirlwind in this fight. It comes down to a question of where best to invest your time, effort and resources, someone that can twist arms and get results sounds pretty good to me at the moment. Mike | |||
|
One of Us |
Mike, With all due respect as much of all you say above is 100% correct, scientist could have swayed the USF&WS in our direction with the lion. Organizations like Panthera, who fund many African wildlife documentaries on TV, control "the numbers" you correctly speak of. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
One of Us |
. . . so where are we at the moment with lion? Strikes me as a bit Pollyannaish to suggest that a $2 million pro-hunting think tank is going to turn this fight around. . . . PETA, $42 million in revenue (2014), HSUS, $135 million in revenue (2014), ASPCA, $171 million in revenue (2014) . . . Mike | |||
|
One of Us |
Don't get me wrong...I think you are correct about DC...money and numbers speak. But...solely playing that game has kind of got us where we are today. Money and numbers may very well be the key to the shortgame but for the long game Kim is correct! We need the unbiased pure scientist and statistics to VALIDATE our message...or we will find ourselves right back in this dilemma again...even if we won the shortgame. As to where we are today with lion...it is not good BECAUSE we did NOT work with science. The real scientists see that hunting definitely plays a role in the preservation of species. They are ready to say it too...as long as we as a group are ready to change as the science suggests...something we have NOT done in the past. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
one of us |
I think there is room for both: plain old lobbying, and funding research. The scientists don't have to be full-time. In fact if they are independent they cannot be accused of employer bias. The studies could be funded on an ad-hoc basis. I mean, how many times do you have to do the study? Once is enough. Managed sport hunting = highest and best use of marginal land = reduced poaching and preservation of habitat. I am sure this has been studied many times already. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
|
One of Us |
KPete, thank you for emerging from exile. And for your thoughtful posts. ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, duke of York ". . . when a man has shot an elephant his life is full." ~John Alfred Jordan "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero - 55 BC "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand Cogito ergo venor- KPete “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.” ― Adam Smith - “Wealth of Nations” | |||
|
one of us |
OK it came to me last night, here is the essence of the message that needs to go out one way or the other: 1. All African wildlife is going to die, most within a decade. 2. The continued existence of each species depends solely on each living female raising two or more offspring to maturity during her lifetime. 3. Trophy hunters pursue mature males almost exclusively with zero impact on survival of the species. Predators, poaching, and human encroachment are the main threats to female survival and breeding success. Hunters, along with ecotourists, provide a major monetary incentive to improve the odds through control of poaching, slowing human encroachment, improvement of habitat, and control of predators. Recreational hunting is not the problem, it is a key part of the solution. 4. Cecil the lion was a predator who would have died naturally by the time you are reading this. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
|
One of Us |
There are some really delusional people here that think the NRA is going to protect the hunting segment...won't ever happen. The NRA has a specific agenda and they have their hands full with that one. They have nothing in the tank to spare for a different type of agenda. There may be a solution, however it most certainly cannot be tied to any type of hunting organization if it is a science based one, otherwise it would be "tainted". That was already discussed here. There is perhaps one other solution, and that is to reach out to the young people and impact their view..or at least challenge the view the anti-hunting community is portraying to them. You will not change the minds of people who are already an anti-hunting supporter or activist. The young community must be the targets of opportunity so ways to get the "conservation through hunting" movement going is to use various media and go where the children are. THEY need to hear and comprehend the message..not the anti-hunting community. | |||
|
One of Us |
Woodrow, it might surprise you to find out that many if the things that you mention are on the NRA's agenda. | |||
|
One of Us |
If we want to save the wildlife in Africa and our hunting traditions, it seems that we need to punish the consumer countries (China, etc.) who are consuming most of the poached ivory, tiger parts, etc. with effective economic sanctions (maybe a 5% tariff on all goods imported from those countries that goes to wildlife preservation?). Politically unpopular and also unpopular with the the many businesses that export to these countries but is there any reasonable alternative? Haven't they heard about Viagra? Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
|
one of us |
Trump is the only one with the macendes (cojones) to do that. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
|
One of Us |
I guess you didn't see the following Gallup poll: http://www.gallup.com/poll/186...ajority-support.aspx You might not have the same opinions if you sat in the HLF meetings as I did. | |||
|
One of Us |
I am going to post a copy of a PM I got on AR the other day. I am not posting the Username as he may wish to remain anonymous. But to just re-enforce all my previous posts and Russ's above...here it is.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
|
One of Us |
I also suspect that as Obama begins his effort to push the gun control noodle uphill, attitudes regarding the NRA may well further shift to the positive. The fact that it is Obama doing it and that he is doing it without Congress, and doing it in the face of the terrorist attack in San Bernardino, could easily cause more folks to gravitate to a position in sympathy with the NRA. Mike | |||
|
One of Us |
Oh I rather enjoy being called stupid... Jeff | |||
|
One of Us |
How about this for a scenario: You hunt a Lion and then legally sell the trophy to the Chinese to offset the cost of the safari? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
|
One of Us |
Cost of a lion hunt $50,000+ Value of lion bones, claws and teeth in SA market < $2,000 | |||
|
One of Us |
$70,000 for Tiger remains in China. Black market. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
|
One of Us |
Where ever you go you hear this similar discussion , hunting is under real threat due to our lack of publicity ability - good publicity. If we don't recreate ourselves I predict hunting in Africa will be a thing of the past in 10 years time. Everything everybody is stating above is relevant and urgent. Hunting under the name of "trophy hunting" is not acceptable to billions of people - yes people billions , so to fail to take this into our planning would be a bad idea. Gun ownership is under just as much attack as Trophy hunting - all due to lack of informative information. There are so many organizations and clubs - our effort and money is diluted. Shane Mulhoney in a DSC magazine spoke about a need for a COALITION for CONSERVATION as far back as 2012 = I suggest this is the way forward What we need is a Conference of Parties - a Coalition formed between all hunting and gun associations who can appoint a member to the BOARD - the goal to finance a global education program which can spread the good stories and good word in a language acceptable by the masses. As a sideline we need to do something fast and this in mind includes the following * Do away with the word TROPHY hunting - call it hunting full stop . Hunting has a positive conatation = trophy has a negative conatation. * Do away with trophy awards - change it to awards for best conservator and educator awards these are the real hero's of hunting. * Do away with practices that harm hunting such as canned lion hunting ( organizations must ban advertising in publicly available magazines ). The Board of the Coalition should have experts on retainers paid to react immedaitly to any negative or contraversial media - rebuttal with facts and good stories. We have all seen how if you respond to blogs and facebook pages with the facts and information - the story dies and disappears. The Coalition for Conservation Conserving Wildlife and the Outdoors Just a thought . | |||
|
One of Us |
Sounds good and just how do we do that? Trouble is that once this thread is bumped to the second page much of we have discussed will be forgotten. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
|
One of Us |
Billions??? Slight exaggeration there... billions of people in the world don't give a crap - they are too busy putting food on the table. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
|
One of Us |
After reading this I don't think a new organization is needed. Support is what is needed. Is sci perfect? No, but at 50k they are still a voice heard in Washington. They are for hunting. If you don't like some of the things that they do join the fight and fix them. Getting the younger generations to join anything is hard they donnot see it as a bennifit to them immediately. How do you get them more involved. You need to appeal to their level. Our chapter has started to focus on hunts that the younger crowds appeal to at our fund raiser. We also support some youth functions and events. Could you imagine the voice of sci or DSC if they were 2,3,4,5 million strong. Organizations have to understand that the younger generations won't spend 65 bucks a year to join much of anything with all the technology we have save the paper send magizines by email. Hopefully we can figure out how we can converge and fight as a team instead of the rogue warrior. I could care less about awards for who shot what. But some guys do and I will travel to Vegas to watch my friend receive his award next month at sci because he earned it and at 82 years old this is a highlight in his life. Its about support. Start somewhere thanks hoytshooter. | |||
|
One of Us |
Sorry but SCI is the Poster Child that anti-hunters use as a whipping toy for all that is wrong with Big Game hunting. On some of their points it is hard to disagree. Jeff | |||
|
One of Us |
You are so right. Those awards are problematic. | |||
|
One of Us |
So true with the awards Just have point system with bronze silver and gold and be done with it For personal satisfaction/use Have a score book for comparison and that should be enough " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
|
One of Us |
What about the DSC - HSC awards? As for Trophy Hunting' .... IMO non-hunters need to be educated what 'trophy hunting' is actually about - that it is just a part of 'Conservation Hunting', that it comes with sound scientific backing. It will be far easier to influence the masses than to completely reconstruct a massive worldwide industry - that the participants will NEVER find agreement on!!! We cant even propose serious alternatives to the terminology - there isnt any!! Wikipedia seems to be the current source of all knowledge - there it is though right there - you can edit it yourselves and influence the masses!! Millions of school children and Internet commentators will thank you!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_hunting A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
|
One of Us |
Matt: Do either of those organizations publish a huge magazine with all the awards they are selling ? Do either of those spend multiple evenings handing out the awards? | |||
|
One of Us |
Yep that's right Larry - they all hand out lots of awards. SCI is a much larger international organisation of course and yes they (SCI) do take their awards a little too seriously... A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
|
One of Us |
Hi folks, I am not an american so I might get this wrong. But looking at internationl hunting as a hobby and a sport from outside the US, I must say that I often wonder about the way things are discussed. That might be because the international hunting society consist of a large number of US Hunters. However I do not want to offend anyone, but I cannot help asking why the future of internatonal trophy hunting is dicussed almost entirely out of SCI, NRA and the US Constitution ( 2nd Amendment ) ? I think that Arjun has a point that NRA is connected to the US Constitution and the right for US Citizens to carry a gun. Does this have anything to do with hunting in itself ? The SCI is based on bagging the biggest trophy possible ! Is this good for hunting as a hobby and sport ? I think a new organization would be great, but should be based on other incentives. The AR thread showing the article from Autralia saying something about Trophy Hunting is maybe a signal. International Hunters should join a New organization that emphasize more the hunt itself, paying a fixed amount to specific organizations to concerve, to the operation of Parks & Scouts, Camp Fire or any other approved Programs. Meat should be taken care of etc etc.. Maybe the whole discussion is about how to organize it. I see understand that issue... but making one organization in the US for just US Hunters would not be any good idea in my opinion. And I think it is about time we get rid of the word Trophy... In good meaning, Morten The more I know, the less I wonder ! | |||
|
Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia